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  1. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ton-Min-Bad View Post
    What about a tumbling shuttlecock similar to the net shots played with spin? I don't think that it's possible to do this legally if you consider placement and distance. What do you think?
    You're never going to get the same amount of spin (tumbling), as the serve is played from too far away from the net.

    However, you can get the shuttle to "shake" slightly in flight. Side-spin seems to work best for this.

    Generally speaking, I'd recommend using only a small amount of slice on the serve, or none at all. Using large amounts of slice can produce some funky serves, but they tend to be wildly inconsistent.

  2. #53
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    A friend of mine tries to play his serves with a big tumbling effect lately, but I really can't imagine them being correct.

  3. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt30mb View Post
    The new laws says:

    Laws of Badminton (2006)

    9.1.6 the shaft of the server’s racket at the instant of hitting the shuttle shall be pointing in a downward direction;

    So - if the shaft is directed downwords for only 1 degree it is not a fault !!

    The latest amended laws from BWF (of June 2010) also read the same.

    Thus, the position of a horizontal shaft at the instant the shuttle is hit is illegal.
    As long as the service judge deems the shaft was less than horizontal (slightly downward, that is, any degree below 180), this serve would not be called a fault.

  4. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksooi View Post
    ...
    ... law 9.2, the first forward movement is the start of the service and 9.1.7 the movement of the server's racket shall continue forwards from the start of the service.
    ...

    9.1.1 neither side shall cause undue delay to the delivery of the service once the server and the receiver are ready for the service. On completion of the backward movement of server's racket head, any delay in the start of the service (Law 9.2), shall be considered to be an undue delay

    9.1.7 the movement of the server's racket shall continue forwards from the start of the service (Law 9.2) until the service is delivered (Law 9.3);

    9.2 Once the players are ready for the service, the first forward movement of the server's racket head shall be the start of the service.
    Now see these two services from one player: serve from evens court and from odds court here.

    If you are the official on this court, what would be your decision?
    Last edited by 2wheels04; 01-04-2011 at 04:47 AM. Reason: Mod: is link to another orum okay? this is for learning purpose.

  5. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly View Post
    I was dismayed to see the wording of 9.1.6 changed last year. Like you, I prefer to see the older, stricter rule enforced. Players are using to new wording as license to hit questionable, offensive drive serves. The serve in badminton was never intended to be the offensive weapon it is in tennis. While a deceptive, well-executed flick serve can rightly be used to neutralize an aggressive receiver, horizontal-shaft (or near-horizontal shaft) drive serves are just plain wrong -- counter to the intent & nature of badminton serving.
    I agree that stricter rules would clarify the situation. I would go further and state that there should be a maximum height of service, rather than individual waist/rib bone that leaves both players and judges nervous. (A piece of white tape on the net would help mark this height.)

    But I completely disagree with your notion that serves were not meant as an offensive weapon. That seems the kind of attitude that would be aghast at offensive play like Zhao Jianhua or Lin Dan. Offense is a mind-set and style of play that should be welcomed, if not encouraged. No freebies. Imagine if the past badminton players (say 100 years ago) saw jump smashes. Many of them might think it was "vicious" or "ungentlemanly".

    "...horizontal-shaft drive serves are just plain wrong -- counter to the intent & nature of badminton serving."

    While I agree that illegal or dubious methods of performing a serve are wrong, I hope you are not saying legal aggressive serves are also "plain wrong", e.g. a drive serve performed legally. If the intent and nature of badminton service is as you say, then the rules should clearly mandate long serves leaving little to the player's imagination.

    If every part of the game is to win, whether the smash, the drop, the strategy, deception...etc., then why not begin with the service. It makes poor logic to say that a service must not be aggressive.

  6. #57
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow A piece of white tape on the net would help mark this height

    Quote Originally Posted by jjashik View Post
    I agree that stricter rules would clarify the situation. I would go further and state that there should be a maximum height of service, rather than individual waist/rib bone that leaves both players and judges nervous. (A piece of white tape on the net would help mark this height.)
    .
    You are only thinking of Badminton for adults.

    That piece of white tape on the net (marking the height) would cause children (say, under 12) to serve differently (compared to adults).

    .

  7. #58
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    i agree with chris-ccc. i'm 6' and my regular partner is only 5', so if we are using a tape to mark the height, the entire idea of the service will be diff for both of us.

  8. #59
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    I disagree with a uniform serve height as well, just like with most sports, your physical height, strength, speed... etc. makes up how competitive you are. Ok... most asians are short but... they also smash harder, maybe we should put a limit on how hard they're allowed to smash to even it up as well?

    Pro players are always on the "edge", they will push the rules as far as they can to gain that edge. Quite frankly I think most pros serve illegally and will continue to do so until a service judge stops them. I really don't care what they got away with in earlier matches, we should not get mad at service judges who actually have the balls to call them on it.

  9. #60
    Regular Member Mark A's Avatar
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    Hehe - Chia Biao got pulled a good half a dozen times during the MDSF; it got to the point where he was serving and hesitating following it in because he was waiting for the fault call.

    Weirdly, Matias Boe wasn't called (as far as I can remember), and his serve is extremely... interesting. If you want to use tape to mark for the benefit of the service judge, the player's shirts should be taped (or else daubed with a stripe of UV ink and the service judge given appropriate eyewear) at the point of the lowest rib.

  10. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A View Post
    Hehe - Chia Biao got pulled a good half a dozen times during the MDSF; it got to the point where he was serving and hesitating following it in because he was waiting for the fault call.

    Weirdly, Matias Boe wasn't called (as far as I can remember), and his serve is extremely... interesting. If you want to use tape to mark for the benefit of the service judge, the player's shirts should be taped (or else daubed with a stripe of UV ink and the service judge given appropriate eyewear) at the point of the lowest rib.
    I think that's a much better idea than a line on the net.... The players would hate it though...

  11. #62
    Regular Member Andy05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A View Post
    the player's shirts should be taped (or else daubed with a stripe of UV ink and the service judge given appropriate eyewear) at the point of the lowest rib.
    I agree with this, it would allow the judges to see where the 'players lowest rib' is. I think that the problem with this idea is that players may pull their shirts up before they serve, therefore increasing their serving hight

  12. #63
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    We could just make them play topless...

  13. #64
    Regular Member Gicutzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by druss View Post
    We could just make them play topless...
    Bikinis for the ladies and shorts for the guys. I support this. A beach volleyball-type setup. Except it's very cold on some courts.

  14. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    You are only thinking of Badminton for adults.

    That piece of white tape on the net (marking the height) would cause children (say, under 12) to serve differently (compared to adults).

    .
    How so? Kids/juniors are taught to serve forehand. How would a fixed height change their approach? Even if they were to prematurely adopt a backhand serve, if the racket needs to be pointed downwards, how would a fixed height (that is higher than their "waist") cause a problem? I help my kids train in their badminton sessions, and can't see any detrimental results to the proposed rule change.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A View Post
    ... If you want to use tape to mark for the benefit of the service judge, the player's shirts should be taped (or else daubed with a stripe of UV ink and the service judge given appropriate eyewear) at the point of the lowest rib.
    The shirt is still problematic, as they shift with movement - so when the server raises his arms in preparation, the shirt can shift up. And when they change shirts during a match, they'll have to repeat the markings on all four players? How is this better than a fixed height limit?

    Quote Originally Posted by george_palk View Post
    i agree with chris-ccc. i'm 6' and my regular partner is only 5', so if we are using a tape to mark the height, the entire idea of the service will be diff for both of us.
    ??? Not sure the relevance of what you are stating here. Sure a max service height would feel different for players of different height. But so is the dimensions of the court, the speed of the shuttle...etc. What might be easy for your reach, might be extremely far for your partner. You are not suggesting different court dimensions for different heights, are you? Are you proposing different net heights for different players, like in Volleyball?

    My proposal is meant to address the problem with the current regulations: The service height limit is highly variable, that is ambiguous to determine (esp when they start pulling up their shorts in response to faults e.g. Cai Yun), and nearly impossible to regulate uniformly. Plus, if you are playing without umpires, then what do you do when you feel that the opponent is serving too high?

    The fixed height would resolve most, if not all of these issues, without costing money and would only mean minor adjustment on the part of players.

  15. #66
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    There's always going to be ambiguous rules in any sport but if you put too many rules in then the sport becomes as boring as lawn bowling...

  16. #67
    Regular Member Gicutzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by druss View Post
    There's always going to be ambiguous rules in any sport but if you put too many rules in then the sport becomes as boring as lawn bowling...
    If badminton turns out like lawn bowls then it will get far more air time on Eurosport.

  17. #68
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    I see a lot of people who serve with a "topspin" action. When they drive serve they win 90% of points, but they only drive serve maybe 3 times per game. They know its illegal or else they would drive serve every single point!

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