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Thread: knee pain

  1. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojopin View Post
    ...

    Also, what are the anti inflammatory herbs you mentioned? i dont really know much about herbs/ herbal remedies so im always interested to find out.thanks

    High dosages of NSAIDs are required to produce an anti-inflammatory response. For instance, 600mg to 800mg doses (several times a day) of ibuprofen are often prescribed rather than the normal 200-400mg doses. The higher doses are not supposed to exceed 10 (or 14) days. NSAIDs as well as COX-2 inhibitors are known to have significant detrimental effects.

    This was my impetus for seeking safer alternatives.

    There are quite a number of foods and herb/spices that have anti-inflammatory properties. Foods include green tea, cherries & cherry juice. There are numerous herbs/spices -- turmeric, ginger root, rosemary and white willow bark to name a few. There are 2 excellent herbal cocktails that I recommend -- D-Flame and Inflama-Rest. for more details on these herbs & spice as well as some info on icing, check out the following links.

    badmintoncentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=536978&postcount=32

    More info in post #3 and #4 below:
    badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42923

  2. #36
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    i think the important thing here is to describe the kind of pain here. need to know whether it's a sharp pain, dull ache, pulling pain, front of knee, back of knee, side of knee, above or below kneecap, moving kneecap, extending joints etc before we can give any advice.

  3. #37
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    Chronic nsaid use is a recipe for disaster, your right, so thanks for the info on the herbal approaches. Ill look into them asap
    Its a shame that more research hasn't been done into herbal remedies, as im sure many are beneficial and its quite dangerous for us to know so little about something which is so popular.

    Your recovery is encouraging , but im sure there are others who have tried it to no avail so there is definatly a need for some well organised , large scale research.

    I just flicked through the abstracts for some glucose amine research papers there, and like you said its mixed. Some report good results, some none, but most agree its better than a placebo, but not neccessarily by alot. Any thing that reduces the need for nsaids and other antiflamatories is a good thing though, as the side effects for glucosamine are kinda hazy but not as bad as nsaids anyhow.

    Medical practice here isnt as commercially orientated as in the US and the pharm companies have less control and sway over physicians decision making. Because of that, there are many doctors who would rather avoid drug use but cant exactly perscribe herbs etc as its unsafe in the absense of research, so their hands are tied. I dont know if glucosamine is given routinely here.
    Rottapharm ( after a quick googling) turns out to be the major manufacturer and supplier of glucosamine and supplys all the other studies worldwide. So. Make what you will of that. I imagine there not doing the research out of curiosity and are looking to make some cash.
    anyhow. cherry juice.... yum..

  4. #38
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    I have the so called jumper's knee or patellar tendonitis. I'll be off trainings for weeks, maybe even months if the rehab doesn't go well, it depends. Anyway, ********************************!!

  5. #39
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    Default Patellar Tendinopathy

    Quote Originally Posted by lkomarci View Post
    I have the so called jumper's knee or patellar tendonitis. I'll be off trainings for weeks, maybe even months if the rehab doesn't go well, it depends...
    Altho' patella tendonitis is often commonly referred to as jumper's knee, patellar tendinopathy is the more correct term for jumper's knee. Tendonitis (or tendinitis) correctly refers to a condition of the tendon where inflammation is present. Tendinopathy, on the other hand, is a more general term that refers to a degeneration of the tendon -- if inflammation is present, it can be referred to as tendinitis; if inflammation is not present, it may be called tendinosis.

    Jumper's knee may or may not involve inflammation. Inflammation may be seen at the onset of jumper's knee but often evolves to a degenerative condition where inflammation is no longer present.

    Was an NSAID or other anti-inflammatory prescribed for you?

    Ice is still one of the best treatments to hasten your recovery. Glucosamine is probably worthless for this condition since it is a tendon issue and not a cartilage injury. An infrapatellar strap, often worn by volleyball players, is probably a good idea:

    Jumper's Knee Strap
    Patellar Tendonitis info

    Had you been executing a lot of jump smashes in your badminton training or playing? Actually, any repetitive explosive badminton footwork action could have been the underlying cause since this is an overuse injury. If you have flat feet or overpronation (of the feet), then you are probably much more susceptible to developing jumper's knee. Orthotics would be well advised if this is the case.

    An excellent resource for exercise & treatment of Jumper's Knee:

    Patellar Tendinopathy treatment

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    Yes I'm taking NSAIDs and taking ice massages. True, glucosamine is quite worthless in my case.
    And I'm thinking of getting a good knee strap, maybe one that covers the whole knee I'm not sure yet.
    Yes I jump smash 90% of times so it could be the reason. After this thing gets better, first thing before I get back to training is going to be putting on some muscles. I have to pay more attention to my legs since they're the ones carrying all the weight.

    Hey thank you for those links!

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    Default Multi-Action Knee Support

    Quote Originally Posted by lkomarci View Post
    Yes I'm taking NSAIDs and taking ice massages. True, glucosamine is quite worthless in my case.
    And I'm thinking of getting a good knee strap, maybe one that covers the whole knee I'm not sure yet...
    To promote the reduction of inflammation, be sure your diet includes a lot of fish (and fish oil) high in omega-3 fatty acids. Salmon is the best source of this. Other decent sources include sardines, mackerel and other oily, cold-water fish. Ground flax seed and other vegetable sources of omega-3s may also help a little bit.

    As I suggested previously, cherry, cherry juice and green tea can also be beneficial in reducing inflammation. Do not take high doses of NSAIDs or COX-2 inhibitor drugs for an extended period -- no more than 10 to 14 days. After that period, consider the anti-inflammatory spices/herbs that I mentioned in my previous posts.

    Not sure about knee braces (knee supports) that cover all of the knee in addition to parts of the leg above & below the knee -- often utilized for ligament issues. I have not seen these types of braces suggested for jumper's knee or for patellar tendinitis -- I don't really know for certain, but it is possible that they may not be optimum for your condition. Perhaps some of the open patella supports might be ok -- best to investigate further.

    In addition to the (infrapatellar) strap that I mentioned in my previous post, the following type of support appears to be suitable for your condition:

    Multi-Action Knee Support

    Patellar Tendonitis products

    Apparently, athletic tape can be used in place of an infrapatellar strap. Check the following recent forum thread for a discussion of this:

    Adhesive bandage thread

  8. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly View Post
    To promote the reduction of inflammation, be sure your diet includes a lot of fish (and fish oil) high in omega-3 fatty acids. Salmon is the best source of this. Other decent sources include sardines, mackerel and other oily, cold-water fish. Ground flax seed and other vegetable sources of omega-3s may also help a little bit.
    Actually, it is better to go with creatures from the bottom of the food chain when it comes to fish oil. Bigger fish tend to have more mercury. An excellent alternative would be krill oil.

  9. #43
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    Default MethylMercury & PCBs

    Quote Originally Posted by stumblingfeet View Post
    Actually, it is better to go with creatures from the bottom of the food chain when it comes to fish oil. Bigger fish tend to have more mercury. An excellent alternative would be krill oil.
    I should have included a caveat for one type of mackerel. King mackerel is one species of fish that can have fairly high levels of mercury (Hg) in the form of methylmercury (MeHg). For the most part, salmon and sardines contain extremely low levels of Hg and other contaminants -- they are generally considered very safe to ingest.

    It's not so much large fish as it is large predatory fish that can contain very high levels of Hg and other contaminants such as PCBs. The most contaminated fish species are shark and swordfish. Next on the risk list is marlin, king mackerel and tilefish.

    Other species of fish should be relatively safe. For the most part, wild fish are extremely low in contamination. There are still a small % of fish farms that engage in questionable practices and may have elevated levels of contaminants (but still significantly less than the 5 large predatory fish mentioned above). Many modern fish farms provide fish with contaminant levels on par with wild fish.

    Some ppl have expressed a concern for Hg levels in some varieties of tuna. Canned tuna, especially light tuna, has very low levels of contamination. Albacore tuna has significantly higher levels of omega-3s than light tuna but also has somewhat higher levels of Hg. While not excessively high in contamination, pregnant women and young children are advised to limit intake of albacore to 6 oz (1 can) per week. The tuna that is highest in contaminants is the varieties sold as tuna steaks or as sushi tuna.

    Note that PCB production was banned in the 1970s yet it still lingers in the environment. Fish farms that do not take appropriate measures may have some moderate PCB contamination in their fish.

    In recent years some medical experts have called into question the dangers of Hg in most fish. It turns out that most fish contains a decent amount of selenium. Selenium has a strong affinity to Hg and can neutralize any methylmercury present in most fish -- since almost all fish has higher levels of Se than Hg.

    WildPacificSeafood.com/GoodForYou.html

    Selenium: Mercury's Magnet


    Fish oil supplements & ground flax seeds will usually only provide modest levels of those healthy omega-3 fatty acids. To get decent levels of omega-3s, it is best to consume (low-contamination) oily, cold-water fish (especially salmon & sardines) 2x or 3x per seek.

    If you are still wary about Hg and PCB in your fish, then pay special attention to the type of fish you consume & where that fish was caught. Wild fish and troll-caught fish is usually very safe. Some fish from farms in the North Atlantic may be suspect (fish from the Pacific normally have very low levels of contamination). One excellent source of tuna and sardines is from Bela Olhao (from Portugal). Their fish is wild-caught from pristine waters.

  10. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly View Post
    ... To get decent levels of omega-3s, it is best to consume (low-contamination) oily, cold-water fish (especially salmon & sardines) 2x or 3x per seek...
    That shoulda been 2x to 3x per week.

    Vegetarians might consider a DHA (an omege-3 fat) supplement derived from algae. The supps are sometimes known as DHA Neuromins. The problem is that most of these supplements do not provide significant levels of another important omega-3 fat, EPA. One could partially compensate with ground flax seeds (& walnuts or other vegie sources). However, vegetable sources provide a less useful form of omega-3, ALA. For most ppl, only a very small % of ALA is converted to EPA (& a lesser amount is converted to DHA).

    One algae source that has a moderate amount of EPA: www.water4.net

  11. #45
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    To SystemicAnomaly,

    Thank you very much for your detailed explanations, it really helps me a lot because I am receiving treatment for jumper's knee.

  12. #46
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    hey guys, i'm back on court! I stopped playing in October because my knee was getting all worse. I could barely use my right leg for walking because i had this queer feeling in my right knee, like all the weels were in wrong places. It was tendonitis alright. I didn't want to risk an injury so I took a long vacation.

    I've started playing two weeks ago and my knee is doing really well now. I didn't really do any weight exercises for my legs before, but I think it's about time to start with that.
    Now if you could just give me some advices on weight exercises for legs. And should I use heavy or light weights, low or high reps?

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    light weights at first, and build up to moderate weights as you progress. no need for heavy weights. Start of gentle, do managable sets for the first 2 weeks, or so, then you can start to increase the reps to make it more demanding. No real benefit from low reps unless your lifting huge weights.

    Try doing lunges, squats, and maybe deadlifts ( go light! take it easy ) and calf raises for the posterir chain of muscles down the leg. lots of stretching before and after, and if it starts hurting, stop. Make sure you take it slowly at first and build into it as your body adjusts. If you rush in, you'll end up doing damage.

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    will do mojopin, i'm going to use light weights for 2, 3 weeks at first and do the other exercises you've mentioned. I have to build up my quad muscles, do a bit of footwork few times a week and we'll see how it goes.

    i've been avoiding smash jumps ever since i came back on court. No need to additionally stress my knee. Besides, it doesn't take away as much breath as the jump smashing.

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    one question i have for you guys, what do you think of electronic muscle stimulators? I have of those really cheap ones, called AbZap so in general, what do you think of this? i was thinking of it as additional "passive" exercise for my quadriceps, because i should develop those muscles in order to strengthen my knee.

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    I know some people not into supplement. I wasn't either until I injured my shoulder playing badminton. Although it got better after physio, the pain came back again and this time worst. I got frustrated with the pain but had no choice to stop playing. My friend introduced Agel Flx. Anyone heard of Agel? It is a supplement in the form of Suspension Gel Technology - no pills swallowing and no digestion issues. Flx contain glucosamine, msm, celadrin and chondroitin, all 4 in 1 that promotes healthy joint and mobility and the best of all it taste great. There are other agel products that is popular among sports people; FIT (weight management) and OHM (energy booster). If interested to know more, you can pm me or just google Agel to find out more.

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    When you develop knee pain after starting to play badminton as a beginner or at a new facility though you may be a regular player, don't you think that you should find out if the
    1.other players at the facility have similar pain
    2.surface is an unyielding one
    3.footwear of yours is faulty one
    However the suggested treatments seem to be highly acceptable and can be chosen to suit individual decision
    In general terms the focus should be on the choice of surface while a facility is being developed besides individual health indices
    So which of the type under self yielding surfaces I mean the construction of the playing surface(nt the subfloor) is suitable for a club or/and high level game Please advise me

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