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  1. #69
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by danielwong View Post
    as a normal badminton lover
    if i play with my friends and there is unfair judgement,
    i oso will upset and wanna throw the racquet at my friend's face
    LCW did not do that, at least he never treat badminton like soccer (remember PSH vs BCL match?)
    LCW shows that he improved a lot in mental toughness..
    give him time...he will come back stronger..
    coz he is our hero...have faith in him....

    yea...LCW is my hero...malaysians hero
    ......things are already happens...
    let the pass be by gone lor...
    for now lets focus on HKO ler

  2. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    Did you see how WMC reacte to the injustice against her? WMC played under almost the same conditions as LCW and yet she managed to maintain her composure and beat the world no.1.

    During WMC's game with XXF, it wasnt so bad. There were a few times shuttle was right on the line for WMC, they called it in. If it was right on the line for LCW, would have been called out. No possible to win under those conditions, just maybe lost at closer point gaps.

    Even Peter Gade was upset- the normally cool and calm guy.

    As others have posted, Taufik would have walked out immediately. Lin Dan would ranted together with LYB.

    Initially I actually thought LCW purposely kicked up a fuss so they would stop it. That's what I would do, pretend to be angry, effected, then lose but actually I'm not bothered. Cant win anyway, then let opponents think one is mentally weak

  3. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    Can't blame you for reacting like what LCW did during his match against BCL, and that was one major reason why he lost. Like him, you should develop greater mental strength, and have greater control over your faculties!

    Right now, you are shooting off just like your "uncontrollable beacon", if ever there was such a thing. Sure you're LCW's die-hard fan and just couldn't take even constructive criticisms. To associate our past dialogues with LCW's match behaviour and your question on why I can't be like WMC is just out of sync, shows how subjective and insensible you can be and the weakness of your argument.

    If you care to take another look at her match, apart from other misdemeanours, WMC tolerated XXF's deliberate controversy on the change of shuttles and her unnecessary delays to get ready. On many occasions, Mew Choo even had to pick the shuttle from XXF's side of the court just to get the game going. The incidents may not be identical but just as testing!

    But Mew Choo took it all in her stride and remained calm, cool, focused and determined. Even after getting a thrashing in the second game and trailing in the first half of the decider, she did not give up or seek out opportunities to make a scene to cause unnecessary delays. She knew that some decisions will be biased against her, but she was determined not to be distracted and fought on with her sole purpose of taking the title.

    And Mew Choo got her just rewards in the end. Every one of her fans rejoiced with her when she jumped around with glee like a happy girl and burst out some tears of joy in the process. Despite all odds against her, Mew Choo survived them all to beat the world no.1.

    What a question from you: "Ask yourself why couldn't you be WMC"?
    Mew Choo did not have that many calls against her. She refused at one point to allow a shuttle change by XXF but was overruled by the bias Umpire so she too was reacting. But the thing is if she had more calls against her she might have reacted more. So all your long arguments above are worthless.

    The measurement of one's faculties is how relevant one is but you have lost yours by your wrong arguments. I am like WMC and LCW, we react accordingly - we are all humans and we don't expect to be cheated. If we lost because we were cheated it has nothing to do with controlling your faculties. And as many have argued here, BAO would not be happy knowing there were too many 'assists'.
    Last edited by X Ball; 11-29-2007 at 07:21 AM.

  4. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by V3i HoN6 View Post
    I don't know man but I think that's another bigger picture out of the "bigger picture" to me.

    See at this timing, without even condemning the walkover, many unfair calls to spoil the game and apparently an intentional and with pre-arranged(having CCTV not to take close up on bad calls) one, but instead going blatantly on how bad one at dealing with the situation, which shouldn't be allowed to happen at the first place.

    It's nonetheless has a point but a very moot one at these times if you ask me because it gives an impression that it is "quite okay" to do this and everyone should start thinking on how to deal with much more of this in the future. It is a problem of not only LCW, but the whole world including Bao is suffered from it. This is serious in terms of the name of the badminton, especially at these times people working hard to promote the game to the whole world. It's seems inappropriate to me to bring out all these mental toughness and what not to cover the bigger issues at hand and make it look like less worth the attention.

    I'm sure if the chinese officers somehow see this or heard about this and they will 100% take this as their supportive voices, meant it or you don't. It does not take someone with a degree in badminton studies understand that LCW isn't that good in the mental's department. It worth a mention but I would certainly rated it down at these times for the sake of the bigger picture you are talking about.

    I see so much resemblance of the Malaysian ministers and UMNO big shots way of dealing with problems. When someone is raped, instead of giving all the attention of catching the raper and punish to where it due, the guys suddenly find it appropriate to shout that the girls wearing sexy which doesn't really that sexy, and not her fault at all (which doesn't really his fault to lose when people cheated on him). Or when grieving parents whose 7 years old daughter being kidnapped, physically and sexually abused (till her parents won't even recognize their own baby girl) and finally killed and dumped in a bag, the police officers blamed the parents for not taking good care of their child.

    Pardon my English, and thank in advance for any kind attempts of correction, please.
    My point is unless we have officiating done electronically, human errors are prone to happen. I say 'human errors' because I believe in the integrity of the umpire/linejudges. Yes, they may have made some wrong calls during LCW/BCL match, but I believe the calls were made without any ill intentions. It is easy to cry foul judging especially when the shuttler we are supporting got beaten and all. But lets not take any credit away from BCL because the lad was awesome last Sunday. LCW was outplayed period.

  5. #73
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default 2007 China Open MS Final...revisited...

    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    Unlike WMC, LCW did not show the calm coolness, grit and determination expected of a champion in the final. He was disturbed by the line calls and even disputed with the umpire over his "tap over the net" incident. His focus had been distracted and he could not find it back in time!

    On the other hand, his opponent Bao Chunlai had only one purpose in mind and he singularly sought out all his energies to achieving it. He was a leader throughout the match, LCW the follower. BCL was in command and totally destroyed LCW's more defensive game.
    Quote Originally Posted by X Ball View Post
    Mew Choo did not have that many calls against her. She refused at one point to allow a shuttle change by XXF but was overruled by the bias Umpire so she too was reacting. But the thing is if she had more calls against her she might have reacted more. So all your long arguments above are worthless.

    The measurement of one's faculties is how relevant one is but you have lost yours by your wrong arguments. I am like WMC and LCW, we react accordingly - we are all humans and we don't expect to be cheated. If we lost because we were cheated it has nothing to do with controlling your faculties. And as many have argued here, BAO would not be happy knowing there were too many 'assists'.
    Anyway, i just rewatched their match again (on youtube), and from what i counted, there were a total of 7 "close/questionable/dubious" calls. And for those who thought that they didn't show any replays, well, i noticed every single one of those calls had a replay of some sort...Here's my account of that match:

    In the 1st set, from what i counted, there were 2 "questionable/dubious" calls. http://youtube.com/watch?v=kvz_4VrPn4Y
    -The first one, which occurred prior to the interval pt, was definitely a wrong call. This was when BCL was shown pointing his fingers/hand and the linejudge awarded the point. They had a replay after that call, but IMO, the shot went out.
    -The second one, which occurred right after the interval pt, where LCW was shown holding his hand and finger up while he complained to the umpire. However, it was, IMO, a very questionable call. They had a replay, from directly the top of the court, which showed the shuttle landed on the line.

    In the 2nd set, from what i counted, there were 5 "close/questionable/dubious" calls. http://youtube.com/watch?v=jeFBdyNmKVY
    -The first one, which occurred prior to the interval pt, was IMO a very questionable call. They had a replay which showed the shuttle landed on the line.
    -The second one, which occurred after the interval pt, was IMO a very questionable call. It was a shot on the line & they had a replay of that call.
    -The third one, which occurred after the interval pt, was IMO a wrong call. They had a replay and the shuttle seemed to land out (inches away).
    -The fourth one, which occurred after the interval pt, was IMO a wrong call. This was when LCW threw his racket and arms in the air in utter disbelief. This call seemed to affect LCW the most, as he took a long time to gather himself back again. They had a replay and the shuttle seemed to land out.
    -The fifth one, which occurred after the interval pt, was a very close net kill by LCW, which the umpire awarded the point to LCW. It was a close call. They had a replay.

    So, from all of those so called "close/questionable/dubious" calls, i would say, from a neutral point of view, only 3 were called incorrectly. How much of a factor those 3 calls would've changed the outcome, that we won't know for sure. We can only speculate and wonder as to what it could've been, if those calls were called correctly.

    Overall, my feeling is that LCW was somewhat frustrated more with how BCL seemed to be able to return and read all of the shots that were thrown at him.
    No matter what kinds of shots LCW threw at BCL, BCL seemed to know and anticipate them.

    Now, did the linejudges/umpire "cheat" and make incorrect calls **intentionally**??..
    As i wrote in another thread, for this particular match, to be fair to LCW and (all of his supporters/fans), and to the many badminton fans worldwide, and to an extent BCL & the CHN Open organizer, those calls **could've** been called better...Personally, i would say LCW is best served to move on and learn from that experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    My point is unless we have officiating done electronically, human errors are prone to happen. I say 'human errors' because I believe in the integrity of the umpire/linejudges. Yes, they may have made some wrong calls during LCW/BCL match, but I believe the calls were made without any ill intentions. It is easy to cry foul judging especially when the shuttler we are supporting got beaten and all. But lets not take any credit away from BCL because the lad was awesome last Sunday. LCW was outplayed period.
    ..yes, i concur with that..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 11-29-2007 at 08:08 PM.

  6. #74
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    The second one, which occurred right after the interval pt, where LCW was shown holding his hand and finger up while he complained to the umpire. However, it was, IMO, a very questionable call. They had a replay which showed the shuttle landed on the line.
    I did watch the you tube clip and the replay was the same one which they showed on TV - an aerial view of which you can see the feathers of the shuttle and the line from about 50-60m away. That replay is inconlusive.

    Now, try to see it in LCW's perspective ( given in a first person POV) :

    1) The opponent had a walkover in the QF stage which is 1 days rest
    2) I had to endure a 3 game SF match - the opponent whitewashed his opponent in the other SF in staright sets.
    3) The official's is from China - except for the tournament referee
    4) I tried to make the opponent tired by rallying the match but he keeps finding the opportunity to make a kill shot.
    5) I already ignored the first questionable call, trying to be mentally strong.
    6) My girlfriend just became the champion.
    7) I'm trailing 11-10 and my knee hurts like hell.
    8) And now they said the shuttle was in.

    Of course he is frustrated and broken mentally.

    Reminds me of LD's frustration in a Malaysian Open final match against LCW in Kuching. (which LCW made a remarkable come back in the rubber game to win).

    Same game, different ball park.

  7. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    My point is unless we have officiating done electronically, human errors are prone to happen. I say 'human errors' because I believe in the integrity of the umpire/linejudges. Yes, they may have made some wrong calls during LCW/BCL match, but I believe the calls were made without any ill intentions. It is easy to cry foul judging especially when the shuttler we are supporting got beaten and all. But lets not take any credit away from BCL because the lad was awesome last Sunday. LCW was outplayed period.
    The so called 'human errors' happens to all at once including by the umpires, line judges(from different angle and side of the court), service judges of the few matches(2 of thai XD games, PSH vs BCL, korean MD vs China MD, LCW vs BCL) all in favors of the China team, plus the CCTV5 selective replay, the in-direct confession of LYB, the coffession of GD line judges whose being replaced by others guy. And it is not the first time in China). Of course you can write them all off by saying that those doesn't proves anything and yeah, i don't really have any god damn proof. A deja vu reminded me that once in a discussion and I was ask If I have any proof if the Malaysian Minister and Police force really corrupted and taking bribe? I have none.

    Wow and you sincerely believe the calls were made without any ill intentions? I can't believe you can go to that extent of denial. But let the conversation end here because seriously "human lies" are prone to happen and neither you or me can proves that you are telling the trues or in pure denial.

  8. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by V3i HoN6 View Post
    The so called 'human errors' happens to all at once including by the umpires, line judges(from different angle and side of the court), service judges of the few matches(2 of thai XD games, PSH vs BCL, korean MD vs China MD, LCW vs BCL) all in favors of the China team, plus the CCTV5 selective replay, the in-direct confession of LYB, the coffession of GD line judges whose being replaced by others guy. And it is not the first time in China). Of course you can write them all off by saying that those doesn't proves anything and yeah, i don't really have any god damn proof. A deja vu reminded me that once in a discussion and I was ask If I have any proof if the Malaysian Minister and Police force really corrupted and taking bribe? I have none.

    Wow and you sincerely believe the calls were made without any ill intentions? I can't believe you can go to that extent of denial. But let the conversation end here because seriously "human lies" are prone to happen and neither you or me can proves that you are telling the trues or in pure denial.
    Dude, denial??? Seriously, you can moan till the cows all come home. The match was done and dusted. LCW lost to a better BCL last Sunday period.

    And like I said earlier unless we do officiating electronically, there are gonna be judgemental calls. Whether there was a conspiracy theory to pull the rug under LCW, this is all speculation.

  9. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    I haven't seen LCW play for quite some time now as I did not have access to the live telecasts nor TV replays. Many fans were excited about his new found style, maybe largely influenced by that of his coach Misbun, of more rallying it seems. This is what I gathered from the posts here.

    But yesterday, I saw both LCW and WMC in action in the CO 2007 finals, courtesy of TV1.

    Of course WMC has already done very well to reach the final, beating the legendary Zhang Ning in the SF, Zhu Lin in the QF and ex-China player, Pi Hongyan earlier. And to conquer WR1 XXF in the final to take the title is a dream come true for WMC, who deserved every bit of it. I can't remember any Malaysian lady player eliminating a row of China players on her way to the title, and in China too! Now who says her coach Wong Tat Meng is second rate and Li Mao is better?

    Unlike WMC, LCW did not show the calm coolness, grit and determination expected of a champion in the final. He was disturbed by the line calls and even disputed with the umpire over his "tap over the net" incident. His focus had been distracted and he could not find it back in time!

    On the other hand, his opponent Bao Chunlai had only one purpose in mind and he singularly sought out all his energies to achieving it. He was a leader throughout the match, LCW the follower. BCL was in command and totally destroyed LCW's more defensive game.

    BCL confirmed that 'attack is the best form of defense' and even LCW's sound defense had to succumb in the end. LCW tried to rally, but BCL simply cut this short by his height and swift overhead cross-court smash. LCW was left scurrying all over the court and forced to make uncharacteristic errors. So it was no surprise that the match lasted less than 40 min, about 20 min for each game of 21-12, 21-13. It must have been one of the worst showings by LCW in a final.

    Yes, LCW cannot stick to one style only. He must vary his style according to the circumstances. To do this he must know his opponent well and what sort of latest changes they have made to their own styles. Perhaps, his lady teammate, WMC, is better at this!
    i got the points.i'll give a simple statement.

    leeChongwei in CO is not the real leechongwei.
    wongmewchoo in Co is not the real wongmewchoo.
    sometimes,lcw did impressed us with his spirit in a match
    sometimes,wmc did dissapointed us with her poor game in a match.
    dont judge lcw by a game.
    dont flatter wmc by a tournament

    wongmewchoo is a miracle in CO.and leechongwei is a failure.thast the fact

    but i hope we wont forget,in the next tournament(after the hk open),maybe its leechongwei who will beat world top 4.
    and wmc will lose in the first round.
    they are just the same.wmc herself sometimes cannot deal with line judges.

    for china open ,its just that wmc is better than lcw
    dont judge them by a tournament.come on..
    want to know how good lcw can be,watch the '06 malaysia open final match.

    and 4 '07 china open,wong mew choo is superb.amazing.remarkable.any other words?

  10. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    My point is unless we have officiating done electronically, human errors are prone to happen. I say 'human errors' because I believe in the integrity of the umpire/linejudges. Yes, they may have made some wrong calls during LCW/BCL match, but I believe the calls were made without any ill intentions. It is easy to cry foul judging especially when the shuttler we are supporting got beaten and all. But lets not take any credit away from BCL because the lad was awesome last Sunday. LCW was outplayed period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    Dude, denial??? Seriously, you can moan till the cows all come home. The match was done and dusted. LCW lost to a better BCL last Sunday period.
    you can have all the periodS you want.............

  11. #79
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    No point arguing over spill milk, the public will never know what happen that day. Is it China really ask the line judge to be patriotic or is it just human emotion to help their own countr or its just simply a mistakes. Something like BIG FOOT legend?

  12. #80
    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    Default Stop giving lame excuses

    from nst letter part....wtf!!

    Lee Chong Wei should learn to be a gracious loser and give credit to his opponents

    FORMER badminton world No. 1 Lee Chong Wei recently sent out a warning to all foreign players about biased officiating at the Beijing Olympics.
    This came about following his defeat to Lin Dan in the Hong Kong Super Series men's singles final, which he attributed to unfair officiating.

    I watched the live telecast on Sunday. If Chong Wei had played as aggressively as he had done in his first set, trouncing Lin Dan, he probably would have become the Hong Kong Open champion. But, no, he must have thought Lin Dan was rattled by his play and, instead, changed his tactics.

    As in previous matches, Chong Wei tried to control play by opting to stroke with Lin Dan. Unfortunately, Lin Dan turned aggressor and, not surprisingly, won the match.

    Chong Wei, not for the first time, has offered external excuses for his loss -- the worst was his earlier public complaint about his chief coach.
    Now, he has attributed his loss to "a lot of points went in favour of Lin in the final". If I remember well, there were maybe only two dubious calls -- not "a lot of calls" that made Lin Dan the champion.

    Dubious line calls are quite common in nearly all games, including tennis and football, and happens everywhere. We in Malaysia are no strangers to these. And if indeed there were "a lot" of wrong calls in his match, the tournament chief referee would have stepped in to change both the umpire and linesman.

    While I would rate Chong Wei to be among the top three players in the world today, I think he has yet to mature in his behaviour as a top-class professional badminton player. It's time he grows up and accepts defeat sportingly, and gives credit to his victorious opponents.

    On that day, there was no way Chong Wei could have won the second and third sets -- he was outplayed by Lin Dan. He was his own enemy.

    It's been a while since we have had a Malaysian singles player at the top of the world's ranking. So I do look forward to seeing Chong Wei up there securely on his own efforts, without any of his opponents having to say: "Chong Wei is up there because he was favoured in his matches by the officials".

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    Quote Originally Posted by george@chongwei View Post
    from nst letter part....wtf!!

    Lee Chong Wei should learn to be a gracious loser and give credit to his opponents

    FORMER badminton world No. 1 Lee Chong Wei recently sent out a warning to all foreign players about biased officiating at the Beijing Olympics.
    This came about following his defeat to Lin Dan in the Hong Kong Super Series men's singles final, which he attributed to unfair officiating.

    I watched the live telecast on Sunday. If Chong Wei had played as aggressively as he had done in his first set, trouncing Lin Dan, he probably would have become the Hong Kong Open champion. But, no, he must have thought Lin Dan was rattled by his play and, instead, changed his tactics.

    As in previous matches, Chong Wei tried to control play by opting to stroke with Lin Dan. Unfortunately, Lin Dan turned aggressor and, not surprisingly, won the match.

    Chong Wei, not for the first time, has offered external excuses for his loss -- the worst was his earlier public complaint about his chief coach.
    Now, he has attributed his loss to "a lot of points went in favour of Lin in the final". If I remember well, there were maybe only two dubious calls -- not "a lot of calls" that made Lin Dan the champion.

    Dubious line calls are quite common in nearly all games, including tennis and football, and happens everywhere. We in Malaysia are no strangers to these. And if indeed there were "a lot" of wrong calls in his match, the tournament chief referee would have stepped in to change both the umpire and linesman.

    While I would rate Chong Wei to be among the top three players in the world today, I think he has yet to mature in his behaviour as a top-class professional badminton player. It's time he grows up and accepts defeat sportingly, and gives credit to his victorious opponents.

    On that day, there was no way Chong Wei could have won the second and third sets -- he was outplayed by Lin Dan. He was his own enemy.

    It's been a while since we have had a Malaysian singles player at the top of the world's ranking. So I do look forward to seeing Chong Wei up there securely on his own efforts, without any of his opponents having to say: "Chong Wei is up there because he was favoured in his matches by the officials".
    i'll consider u as a mature and wise fan.true fan.

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    In HK Open final, LCW rarely acknowledges free point from net cords and at one point where his smash landed on Lin Dan, he seemed reluctant to raise his hand to say it was unintentional.

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