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  1. #341
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    For me, I draw a clear line between Lin Dan up to the London Olympics and the Lin Dan after, and only the latter Lin Dan is beatable by a number of players though it still remains to be seen.

    Aura and charisma are a natural part of a great player's persona , it's up to the 'lesser' players to prove themselves by substance and inner belief that they can match up to their 'idol'.

  2. #342
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    Ah, of course everyone respects Lin Dan. I was just saying that maybe Chen Long in particular does it, understandably so, and unfortunately that may mean that we will never see a world class match between those two.

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedShuttle View Post
    The aura came from two Olympics golds and four World Championships, along with the kind of power, skill and determination to gain those glories. You have to earn that over the years. On that front, CL still has some distance to catch LCW, let alone LD.
    You make it sound like I think it's unjustified that he has that aura. I don't; he deserves to have it based on his accomplishments. I just think that there are players who are so in awe of Lin Dan (and Chen Long, being a junior teammate, would be particularly suspectible to feeling that way) that they seldom play their best when playing against him, even though they're at an approachable level to him skills-wise. I count Lee Chong Wei in that category too.

    No less than Morten Frost has echoed my thoughts - in his commentary during the 2011 Worlds, I recall him opining that Lin Dan had lately been winning based solely on respect.

  4. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrinalini View Post
    You make it sound like I think it's unjustified that he has that aura. I don't; ...
    I don't mean that at all. I mean that it takes time for CL to earn the same. A couple tournaments or even a couple years of good play are just not enough.

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrinalini View Post
    It's not just you. Skills-wise, I feel that there are a number of players who are better than Lin Dan lately (including Chen Long); it's just that they keep losing to him because of this aura that he has. I really hope that they'll eventually be able to shake off that kind of 'deferment' mentality soon.
    I disagree with both of you on this. I don't believe anyone has the greater skills (technical ability) than LD. Chen Long is a coach's dream, but he's still not able to out pace or out rally LD because of LD's technical ability and that is why Chen Long can't get out of LD's aura.

    In other words Chen Long as brilliantly as he played in AE would most likely not be able to beat LD playing that kind of game against pre-Olympics LD. The bright side is Chen Long is still improving, LD probably not.

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1lau View Post
    I disagree with both of you on this. I don't believe anyone has the greater skills (technical ability) than LD. Chen Long is a coach's dream, but he's still not able to out pace or out rally LD because of LD's technical ability and that is why Chen Long can't get out of LD's aura.

    In other words Chen Long as brilliantly as he played in AE would most likely not be able to beat LD playing that kind of game against pre-Olympics LD. The bright side is Chen Long is still improving, LD probably not.
    Hey! I never SAID that they are equal skill-wise! All I said was that I thought Chen Long respects Lin Dan too much when they play and therefore he stands NO CHANCE of beating him, when in reality I think it could be very close, maybe Chen Long might even win some matches. The point is that Chen Long is arguably at Lee Chong Wei's level right now. And if Lee Chong Wei is able to win matches vs Lin Dan then Chen Long should also be able to.

    But he might never do it because of his respect for Lin Dan that makes him not play fully, and that means that we will maybe ever see a good match between them. Whenever those two meet it would simply not be as existing as it could be.

    some mod remove this if it was too spammy.

  7. #347
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    I have to disagree with some of Tsae's argument. I am annoyed with the way Clark takes sides in her comments, but I would not say it is because western people have prejudices against Chinese players. LCW is also from Asia ; moreover, he has Chinese ancestry. But language does it all! The media people don't know chinese, and Chinese players don't know english. So they can't talk to each other, that is it.
    We also have to consider that the Chinese player plays as a team, and we the fans had to complain in recent years about this team's behavior. CL behaves like a gentleman, I agree with that, but as a member of the team he is subject to critism affecting the whole.
    I wish the Chinese players would enhance their communication, they could easily gain support by doing so.

  8. #348
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    Fortunately, it was Lee Chong Wei in the arena. Imagine for a moment what it would be like if it was Peter Gade instead, and Peter had been the world's no. 1 since 2008 with 46 career titles playing against the Chinese underdog, Chen Long, in England. Rest assured the entire stadium would be split between China and the rest of the Western World.

    I think many people on this forum who are always criticizing Li Yongbo and the Chinese players playing as a team and complaining in recent years about this team's behavior for their prejudices towards the Chinese on court, is absolutely unfair and a straw man fallacy.

    I suspect this prejudice has somewhat led the Chinese team to ‘hold their punches’ and not go all out to grab all the medals in existence – ever wonder why they would consistently win only 2 or 3 titles out of 5 in all tournaments. They probably realised that the badminton world would be better harmonised and not regard them as freaks or zombies that way! HAHA!

    I look forward to the day when BWF live broadcast would allow us to switch audio channels between a Chinese commentary and an English commentary. There are many excellent Chinese commentators who are very professional and knowledgeable in the sport; co-commentating with ex-national players such as the legendary Zhao Jianhua, Bao Chunlai, etc. There isn't any lack of communication or poor communication skills with the Chinese players as you have professed in the Chinese-speaking world as badminton is very popular and accessible in China.

    For any western professional or enthusiast in the sport, the onus is on the westerner or western media to approach the Chinese for an insight into their world of badminton. The Chinese do deserve at least that much after all that they have achieved for China and badminton. But of course we do not expect the western world to do the Chinese any such favours. Go figure.

    So in the end, the English-speaking world would have to contend with the same iteration and prejudices from Gillian Clark et al because of her incapacity to learn from the Chinese and her sino-phobic tendencies.

  9. #349
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    Your comment is a bit paranoid!

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    Quote Originally Posted by renbo View Post
    Your comment is a bit paranoid!
    And your comment is an ad hominen - directed against a person rather than against his arguments.

  11. #351
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    Maybe if those knowledgeable commentators learned some English they could take over from Gill Clark Or should the BWF broadcast mimic a UN meeting?

  12. #352
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    And not in the least: badminton has NO interest from "the media" in The West (so good luck getting a reporter sent to do a background story). If Tine Baun hadn't made the final the coverage in the newspapers in Denmark would have been a list of the scores in the results column. In other countries even the scores wouldn't make it in most cases ...
    Most news coverage is done online and relies on second hand news for the biggest part, only Badzine has some correspondents here and there.

    But you have probably forgotten about the docu done on Zhang Ning by someone from The Netherlands if you were even aware of it in the first place ... (?)
    Last edited by demolidor; 03-14-2013 at 06:34 AM.

  13. #353
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    In a sense renbo is right about the lack of communication and language barrier affecting the CHN badminton image for effective two-way communication is key to any relationship. But I feel you really cannot fault China for her team spirit knowing where they come from, their history and that they are still very much a developing country. I'd say it's their team spirit, camaraderie and comradeship, the 'Nation Before Self' spirit in addition to their keen,humble desire to learn from the best in the world in all fields of knowledge,particularly science and technology, economics and sports ever since the founding of the PRC in 1949 that make China what she is today, a fast rising emerging world power, a benign one I must say.

    I seriously doubt, in CHN, anybody can survive as an independent professional badminton player in the beginning of his/her career. Even Li Na in tennis with its lucrative prize money has to wait until quite late in her career to do so after she has had some significant results. From what I've gathered, state-funded sport system is still a necessity in CHN as otherwise very few parents would be willing for their children to take up sports as a career.

    On the other hand, I can understand and sympathize with tsae75's concern with the Western world's prejudices,unease and sinophobia towards China's rapid rise and some of the sports, in this case badminton, which exemplify her dominance. Admittedly, the Western powers, esp the sole Superpower US and to a lesser extent Europe, and even Japan which has always considered herself a European nation in Asia and now has to play second fiddle, are finding it hard to come to terms with it and ,sadly and mistakenly, many still harbour the cold war mentality. China, I believe, is fully aware of this awkward, tricky and sensitive position she is in and is trying her best to allay their fears and worries, unfounded or not, by being cooperative, accommodating and a responsible stakeholder in the world, to use Robert Zoellick's term. And what better way to do so than to project much more of the soft power such as in culture, sports, diplomacy, foreign assistance,education,music,cuisine,etc. In this aspect, China is gaining notable successes; France,for instance, under Jacques Chirac's presidency, was very friendly with China.

    In sports,however, there is,inevitably, the competitive element where the vanquished is bound to feel a certain degree of jealousy and sour grapes. If I may apply Arsene Wenger's warning to Europe not to be jealous of English dominance in soccer to Chinese dominance in badminton: "The standards are really high here and the ones who lift the standards should be admired, should be followed and copied, and not be the victim of jealousy, for example."

    Talking about China 'pulling their punches', I 'm reminded of Gillian Clark's revelation during the last Thomas/Uber Cups that BWF once approached CBA, Li YB specifically, not to send all their top players to every tournament so as to give others a chance. But, to be frank, I feel there's no need for that now as, admitted by LYB himself even before the London Olympics, the gap between CHN and the rest of the world is closing considerably.

    To improve communication and create better understanding, I hope those of you who are capable take the time and effort to translate more of the relevant,interesting Chinese articles and blogs (you'd be surprised the Chinese media can be very outspoken and critical of themselves). Another thing is this is an English-speaking forum, I'm wondering if just 1% of China's netizens who can write some English were to join as members, kwun will be delighted,not only will it swell the numbers as a whole but,more importantly, I hope, a more representative, fair and balanced view of Chinese badminton is presented in the form of mutual understanding through better communication and effective dialogue.

    Sorry for digressing too much. Just my 2-cents.

  14. #354
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    I must say that while in Beijing I could not register as a member of Badminton Central. I had to wait to move to HK for that. There is some restrictions of some sort in mainland I beleive, and that is probably why there are so few members from mainland China.
    Besides, we are a bit harsh on Miss Clark, as she is most of the time very admirative of Chinese WS like WYH or WX. One has to have preferences I suppose

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    Now back to CL, I am sure the Chinese coach are happy with his performance, LD can retire without China loosing too much, but something is still wanting for him : he'll counter-perform quite frequently. He is not so young anymore; let's see if he can in 2013 accumulate the good results

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    About beating the latter-day, post-LOG Lin Dan , skill-wise alone I daresay it is still quite difficult for anyone to do so. The best hope of getting the better of him is to rely on superior fitness and stronger physicality provided your skill level isn't too far from his.

    You're right if you suspect that I'm implying Chen Long has a slightly better chance of beating Lin Dan than for LCW to do so. Even if Lin Dan with his competitive spirit hates to lose to his archrivals is willing to work harder to overcome any lack in fitness and stamina, I doubt he can do much to increase his motivation to former levels. Simply put,he is more beatable than he ever was before. It's far too early to talk about his quest for the Rio Olympics.

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    As for being offered a choice between switching to English, say GC's commentaries, or Mandarin, say CHN sport commentator's, the language barrier for non-Chinese speakers is still a stumbling block. It'd be great if the CHN commentator can speak sufficient English to converse with GC or Ian Wright or anyone for that matter. Not too far-fetched, I hope, for the Chinese are generally very fond of learning a foreign language, esp English, including French, German, Japanese,etc.

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