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  1. #103
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    Like another 5,000 old threads, I don't see any new juice in this thread at all. Basically, some "fans" can't take the fact that CHN gain more success than any one else in this sport. So, they pick the dirts, with proof or simply randomly shoot.

    You should NEVER judge a situation by a very isolated case. You need to look at the overall picture. Then, you will find out sometimes you gain some, sometimes, you lose some.

    Here's what my take for non-CHN players, coaches and "fans":

    1. When you receive benefit: i.e. Got into the OG due to "limited entries per nation", even though you know you are not good enough, just enjoy the experience, learn from others, and thank god to give you the chance.

    2. When you lose for whatever reason: suck it up, train harder, and find the problem from yourself. The main problem exists in yourself AND your organization, not other players, coaches, facility, draws, fans, the food you ate in the morning, or the good looking chix passing the courside...

  2. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananakid View Post
    If I were you, I would be careful with that high-lighted statement...

    as Lazybuddy will definitely go after this particular statement with his famous argument... XXZ and XXF didn't even get to play because of some ridiculous limitation to the number of players from one nation... How are you suppose to call it "may the best player win", when the Men's singles world champonship could not even participate.

    How do you expect XXZ and XXF feel when they know damn well that their Olympic dreams were stolen from them by some rank 100+ players from another country???
    I have to say, human nature as it is, consider the "luck" as "I deserve it". Once there's no more "luck" but "reality", we feel "I got cheated".
    Last edited by LazyBuddy; 11-14-2007 at 12:53 PM.

  3. #105
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Exclamation This case, it is not LYB but the BWF, setting up the artificial barriers

    Quote Originally Posted by bananakid View Post

    How are you suppose to call it "may the best player win", when the Men's singles world champonship could not even participate.

    How do you expect XXZ and XXF feel when they know damn well that their Olympic dreams were stolen from them by some rank 100+ players from another country???

    Yes, you are correct.

    You've just stated another example... In this case, it is not LYB but the BWF, setting up the artificial barriers.

    ***
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 11-14-2007 at 01:10 PM.

  4. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    The practice of asking someone to lose deliberately is definitely wrong. It is not only unethical, but it violates a human right.

    If LYB is concerned with the preservation of human dignity, he should not interfere with his players' motivation to play their best. As we say "May the best player win".

    It is not proper to set up artificial barriers against a player to win. It will only damage the player's sporting spirit. We should encourage all participants of any sports to play their best each and every time.

    I believe that, in any sport, the joy is not based on the winning or the losing, but the joy of the effort we put into it.

    ***
    that sound nice and dandy from the world u r living in now but in any communist countries, be it china, ex-east germany, ex-romania, russia, sports is a propaganda machine, players are just pawns. LYB knows that, YZY knows that too. Fortunately, china don't kill or eat their players.
    YZY did not have to obey LYB. She could of taking the chance and go for the glory just like the table tennis player in post #42. I'm sure YZY also weighted her chances and options and had elected, yes elected, to lose. BTW, we have revelation that lyb did rfix the WS match in 2000 OG. Do we have tangible proof or words from YZY's mouth that she actually did exactly what lyb had ordered? (i don't know this part) or did she lost to gzc on technical ground? Until we hear stories from both side, we shouldn't feel so emotional about it. I'm only presenting view from my own interpretation of the events and what evidence presented todate.

    If u compare yzy and gzc today, imo, yzy is doing quite well financially and had emotionally accepted her fate. She is playing golf while gzc is trying to grind out a living from her store, coaching and part time modeling it seem. It seem she (yzy) had moved on with her life while some of us not even have a stake in this affair is holding a grudge on lyb. Let it go.
    Last edited by cooler; 11-14-2007 at 01:06 PM.

  5. #107
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    In 2008 OG, if no injuries or sickness or retirement, LYB will like face such situation:

    1. MS: LD, BCL, CH, CJ, CY (likely all in top 10)

    2. WS: ZN, XXF, Lu Lan, Zhu Lin, Jiang Yanjiao, Wang Lin, Wang Yihan (likely 4 or 5 in top 10, the rest high in 10-20 if given enough chance to play)

    3. WD: GL/HS (not sure about Hung Sui status), ZJW/YW, ZYW/WYL, Du Jing/Yu Yang(like all in top 10, if stay in the same pair and enough chance to play)

    Tell me, any of the above does NOT deserve to play OG? However, we will see a huge cut of about 50% (7 out of 16 and 4 out of 7 WS) of listed above. Thanks for the "fairness" with the OG setup to begin with.

    Before we feel bad for the "match fixing" victims, let's free bad for "limited entries" victims. They can't even play the qualification round even if they could be the WC champions!!!
    Last edited by LazyBuddy; 11-14-2007 at 01:11 PM.

  6. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy View Post
    In 2008 OG, if no injuries or sickness or retirement, LYB will like face such situation:

    1. MS: LD, BCL, CH, CJ, CY (likely all in top 10)

    2. WS: ZN, XXF, Lu Lan, Zhu Lin, Jiang Yanjiao, Wang Lin, Want Yihan (likely 4 or 5 in top 10, the rest high in 10-20 if given enough chance to play)

    3. WD: GL/HS (not sure about Hung Sui status), ZJW/YW, ZYW/WYL, Du Jing/Yu Yang(like all in top 10, if stay in the same pair and enough chance to play)

    Tell me, any of the above does NOT deserve to play OG? However, we will see a huge cut of about 50% (7 out of 16 and 4 out of 7 WS) of listed above. Thanks for the "fairness" with the OG setup to begin with.

    Before we feel bad for the "match fixing" victims, let's free bad for the above listed elites...
    Not just those elites you mentioned... but also in my opinion they are taking away my chance to watch Hafiz demonstrate more yo-yo action in the OG08(well at least according to current ranking)... and that is NOT COOL!!!!!!!!!

  7. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy View Post
    In 2008 OG, if no injuries or sickness or retirement, LYB will like face such situation:

    1. MS: LD, BCL, CH, CJ, CY (likely all in top 10)

    2. WS: ZN, XXF, Lu Lan, Zhu Lin, Jiang Yanjiao, Wang Lin, Want Yihan (likely 4 or 5 in top 10, the rest high in 10-20 if given enough chance to play)

    3. WD: GL/HS (not sure about Hung Sui status), ZJW/YW, ZYW/WYL, Du Jing/Yu Yang(like all in top 10, if stay in the same pair and enough chance to play)

    Tell me, any of the above does NOT deserve to play OG? However, we will see a huge cut of about 50% (7 out of 16 and 4 out of 7 WS) of listed above. Thanks for the "fairness" with the OG setup to begin with.

    Before we feel bad for the "match fixing" victims, let's free bad for the above listed elites...
    to add, we should look at the big picture. We all wanted fair play and ethical standard. On a larger scale, we have vote rigging/buying within IOC, pre-deals made between russia and france on figure skating results, top althetes taking banned performance enhancement substance. What lyb had done is legal under bwf and we keep seeing it as a huge olympic controversy

  8. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueBlue View Post
    if u only play if your chance of winning is more than 50 percent, there is no drive to play any more.
    my last comment was spoken in a generality context. Everyone play for their own little reason. In any open tournaments in your local area, do u see every badminton players in your area join and particpate in tournaments?? Obviously there are some truth in my statement
    Last edited by cooler; 11-14-2007 at 01:26 PM.

  9. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananakid View Post
    Not just those elites you mentioned... but also in my opinion they are taking away my chance to watch Hafiz demonstrate more yo-yo action in the OG08(well at least according to current ranking)... and that is NOT COOL!!!!!!!!!
    it is highly possible that hafiz oscillating frequency (yoyo) might crest in august 2008 but he wont get the chance to compete.

  10. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    it is highly possible that hafiz oscillating frequency (yoyo) might crest in august 2008 but he wont get the chance to compete.
    I am more interested in seeing whether he can erase last year Asian games' shame of losing 10+ match points(and eventually lost the game to Lee Hyun Il) by saving 10+ match points and win a game in OG 08.

    That will make him the ultimate yo-yo king.

  11. #113
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    @lazybuddy: you post alot, but i don't agree with you, because you only talk about whole groups and what is best for them.
    My aproach is individual- i only feel for somebody who must loose desperately. and this is not right no matter what (only if he himself has reason to loose).

  12. #114
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    Eastern asian cultures: tend to be more "collective" minded

    Western cultures: tend to be more "indidualized" minded

    anyone took social psych at uni level yet lol?
    seriously I think this the root of what the "argument" is about here, and why some members can't seem to agree...anywho this discussion always pops back up every few months and lazybuddy gets to flex his finger muscles to type up those long complete(and clear) posts to defend or perhaps "offer a different perspective" to this whole shananigan

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    but thats also in other olympic disciplines. since i m grman, i only know in "bob racing" (winter sports) the german are only allowed to start with 3 people who (women) sometimes get place 1-3...they could have more starters...

  14. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    As we say "May the best player win".
    And, as LYB says: "May I always win"

  15. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy View Post
    Before finger pointing the match fixing, let me ask you how to explain the "limited entries for OG"?

    WC2003 Champion XXZ and Runner up XXF can NOT even participate. Do you think they are denied for their hardwork, and proven success? The other nation's players and coaches crying for "match fixing", but think twice, they at least get a chance to play, at the cost of much better CHN players, such as XXZ and XXF!

    Like I mentioned in preverious thread, if no limited entries, CHN might occupy half of the entries (especially women events) to begin with. Then, the non-CHN players have to face 4-5 CHN ladies to even dream about the finals anyway.
    I have posted times before XXZ should play in WC05 and being there in Anaheim, I would like to see him play. BWF limiting CHN entries is to control CHN dominance otherswise CHN will flood the top 10 spots in all events with most likely all-CHN finals. I also said when LCW, PG and TH retires, with no non-CHN players coming up, CHN will rule.

    I do not agree match fixing, to deny YZY a chance to compete for OLY gold is fair being her last shot at gold, that is my point. Players at the top level, the gap is so small that the score could tilt one way or another, to say YZY has less chance to win, so might as well walk, that is no right.

  16. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wai Shing View Post
    Eastern asian cultures: tend to be more "collective" minded

    Western cultures: tend to be more "indidualized" minded

    anyone took social psych at uni level yet lol?
    seriously I think this the root of what the "argument" is about here, and why some members can't seem to agree...anywho this discussion always pops back up every few months and lazybuddy gets to flex his finger muscles to type up those long complete(and clear) posts to defend or perhaps "offer a different perspective" to this whole shananigan
    yup, post #657 sums it up nicely http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...=17468&page=66

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    Isn't the Olympics about country first and individual next? On the other hand the Super Series is more the individual first and country last, unless there are higher motives behind so called match-fixing. Maybe LYB is using a type of "comparative advantage" that only smart nations use in economics. Maybe LYB has brought the art of strategy-basing on a bit of statistics in this case-to a higher level.
    In the animal kingdom the pride is always ruled by the alpha male, the strongest over all the others. In humans, our ability to think for the common good over the individual, even if the individual is the human equivalent alpha male, is the reason why there is no alpha male in the human species.

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