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  1. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shifty View Post
    that's a fair point Lazy Buddy made. for all the "fairness" everyone's screaming for, has anyone thought about how fair it is on people like Chen Yu, Jiang Yanjiao and Xia Xuanze. they will never get to play in the Olympics because of the 3 person rule. they are, or were good enough to play. Xia was still a top player in 04. Chen Yu has reached several finals this year, beaten Lee Chong Wei, and a score of other players. yet he isn't allowed to play. if it's all about fairness, then shouldn't anyone be allowed to play, as long as they're good enough? as long as they're at the right rank. if it's all about fairness and individuality, then Chen Yu has every right to go to the Olympics. but he can't.

    The problem I see here, is a lot of ppl only look at 1 side of the story, then jump on to conclusion. They feel bad for their own players, but never thought their own players should NEVER even been in OG to begin with, if they allow the higher ranked CHN to enter.

    The other problem is, nowdays ppl are selfish, and only want to enjoy the benefit from a contract, but refuse to take the responsibility. To me, join a team is like signing a contract. You surely will receive some benefit for your work, but more important, you need to know what duty/responsibility you need to face as well. Individual pride/success is important, but should not overcome the team's need.

    Of course, you don't have to agree with the contract, but then you have every right to leave the team, just live and train on your own. Tell me enjoy all the benefits from the team, then suddenly screaming for "total freedom" when the responsibility comes, great deal...

  2. #223
    Regular Member wilfredlgf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy View Post
    I don't agree. I think you just reversed the "cause" and "result".

    The way we need to look at is, because there's limited entries per nation, power house chiefs need to make a hard decision to see who to cut. If simply just whoever the best can go to OG, LYB's life is much easier, and you will see maybe 50 invidividual / pairs from CHN in the OG entries.

    Then, the semi final and beyond (especially women events), might be very well look like a CHN national game, rather than OG.
    I don't disagree with that but Shifty was talking about the problem from the perspective of China itself rather than the event. It's not like the rule was set to only affect China but every other participating nation. To follow his concerns by looking at the number of entries in proportion to the talent or ability count is to create a weird situation where Chinese players will overwhelm the rest by sheer number alone (if the abilities are normalised with a cut off point).

  3. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilfredlgf View Post
    I don't disagree with that but Shifty was talking about the problem from the perspective of China itself rather than the event. It's not like the rule was set to only affect China but every other participating nation.

    In theory, your point is corrrect. However, in reality, don't you think CHN (or, very slim chance for another power house in a particular event) is the actual target? The BWF and OG makes such rules, in theory to show the "fairness", but the real result is to limit CHN from gaining more medals.

    Of course, it affects every nation, but 99% of them are the ones being on the benefit side, as now, their not-as-good player can participate. Only CHN (or, slim chance to another nation in a paricular event) is on the losing side, as their WC champion can't even make the team...

  4. #225
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Default What LYB is doing is not illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post

    2) the next case are "individual" events like the world championships and olympics, where the BWF has put artificial barriers on the number of entries per country. as LB has argued, when such limitation has been placed, it starts to put the event into the realm of being a team tournament, and starts to lose its "individualness".

    Hi kwun,

    Responding to your Point #2...

    I think these are some of the reasons why/how the organisers of the World Championships and the Olympics are implementing their rules;

    1. Because only 3 medals (Gold, Silver and Bronze) are to be rewarded to players, why allow a country to send more than 3 players. (However, care is to be taken here, to ensure that those 3 players are not meet each other before the semi-finals, therefore making it possible for any country to win all the 3 medals).

    2. Because the organisers wish to accommodate as many participants as possible from different countries, that they began to set up artificial barriers (limiting 3 entries per country).


    However, LYB's thinking is different from the organisers' plans/intentions. LYB is a team coach. So we should not be surprised that he has suggested to have no restriction on the number of entries from his or any country.

    I think these are some of the reasons why LYB has argued so;

    1. Because LYB wants to apply his Walkovers and/or "fixed matches", the more his players are allowed to participate, the better the opportunity he has, to instruct his players to have Walkovers and/or "fixed matches". (Of course, his intentions are to bring the best outcomes for his overall team).

    2. Because LYB knows that there are so many good players in China, he knows that he can use these players to tire players of other nations, hence making easier pathways for his main players.


    But don't get me wrong... what LYB is doing is not illegal.

    LYB's only/main intention is to ensure that his team's top players are not subject to difficulties/burdens.

    Cheers... chris@ccc
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  5. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy View Post
    The problem I see here, is a lot of ppl only look at 1 side of the story, then jump on to conclusion. They feel bad for their own players, but never thought their own players should NEVER even been in OG to begin with, if they allow the higher ranked CHN to enter.

    The other problem is, nowdays ppl are selfish, and only want to enjoy the benefit from a contract, but refuse to take the responsibility. To me, join a team is like signing a contract. You surely will receive some benefit for your work, but more important, you need to know what duty/responsibility you need to face as well. Individual pride/success is important, but should not overcome the team's need.

    Of course, you don't have to agree with the contract, but then you have every right to leave the team, just live and train on your own. Tell me enjoy all the benefits from the team, then suddenly screaming for "total freedom" when the responsibility comes, great deal...

    two sides of the coin...

    It is of course not very fair that good top ranked players from china are not allowed to competet because of a quota...

    but it is definitively not fair for country men to play an individual elimination torunament as a team... giving "free rounds" to countrymen for tactical reasons..

    This is in a way as unfair as if 3 people played 3 hands together at a poker table against 3 individual players

    /Twobeer

  6. #227
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    I hope Bao will be able to reach the finals in Hong Kong!!

    This would be a good way to prove that he can make it without "team" help...

    (hopefully he doesn't face LD in the finals if he reaches the finals, as I suspect LD may throw the game to give Bao som extra points to try to pass LCW on the rankings before OG )

    /Twobeer

  7. #228
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Smile Should not be surprised if LYB would instruct LD to throw the game for BCL to win

    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post

    I hope Bao will be able to reach the finals in Hong Kong!!

    This would be a good way to prove that he can make it without "team" help...

    (hopefully he doesn't face LD in the finals if he reaches the finals, as I suspect LD may throw the game to give Bao some extra points to try to pass LCW on the rankings before OG )

    Hi twobeer,

    I also hope that BCL will be able to make it to the Finals in Hong Kong SS Open 2007 too, to prove to us that he can do it all by himself, without his team's help.

    However, if BCL is to play LD in the Finals, I would not be surprised if LYB would instruct LD to throw the game, to give BCL extra points to pass LCW on the ranking points.

    LYB should know that if LD and BCL can be ranked 1 and 2 just before the draw of the Beijing Olympics 2008, then China could have a better chance to win the MS Gold medal.

    Cheers... chris@ccc
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  8. #229
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    With all this palace intrigue and cloak-and-dagger stuff to devise and see through to completion, I wonder if Li Yongbo has any time left for badminton coaching anymore

    That could explain the setbacks at the China Open for the entire top rung of players (except in MS)

    Someone should gift LYB a greatcoat and a top hat
    Oh, what drama awaits us at Beijing in August 2008!

  9. #230
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    Well Bao, certainly couldn't prove that he could make it the long route, without any easy matched, this time, sadly enough...

    I loved the new "all-out" attacking style he showed in CO.. Guess it was to taxing for his body, even with the easy games thrown in...

    /Twobeer

  10. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post

    but it is definitively not fair for country men to play an individual elimination torunament as a team... giving "free rounds" to countrymen for tactical reasons..
    True champion needs to be mentally and physcially ready for anything. Opponent got an easier early round or even walk over, should be well prepared in the plan. If you can't over come all such, you are not truly a champion material yet.

    In summer, I played a local tournament, as well as working as a staff member. I was soo tired, even before my own games came up (which on purposed pushed to be the last, as I need to help to manage the event). Then, I need to face a group of very well rested opponents in a short time period (playing both MD and MXD). Thus, I fought all the way to semi final in MXD. In the bronze medal match, I was sooo tired, and can't even got up after a diving save. However, I still respect all the opponents who beat me in both events. So I ask for a re-match, as I was too tired to help out, and got a unfair playing schedule? Of course not.

  11. #232
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    this is a very good comparision. it lacks.

  12. #233
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Default Match-Fixing By BCer

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy
    True champion needs to be mentally and physcially ready for anything. [...] If you can't over come all such, you are not truly a champion material yet.
    This reminds of the very pretty, very talented and very determined Gong Zhi Chao
    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy
    In summer, I played a local tournament, as well as working as a staff member. I was soo tired, even before my own games came up (which on purposed pushed to be the last, as I need to help to manage the event).
    Oh my god...
    LazyBuddy too is fixing matches

  13. #234
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    Default Li Yonbo 101

    This is another very detail article about Li Yongbo from Sina Sports, if you can read Chinese then this one for you.
    http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4c06e94b01000e7k.html

  14. #235
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han View Post
    This is another very detail article about Li Yongbo from Sina Sports, if you can read Chinese then this one for you.
    http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4c06e94b01000e7k.html
    I can't read Chinese...
    ...but I'm pretty certain the article says Li Yongbo is an honourable man

  15. #236
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    He is really a good actor managing to cheat the world!

  16. #237
    Regular Member extremenanopowe's Avatar
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    He will be remembered as the most notorious manager in history. What a way to go.

  17. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    I can't read Chinese...
    ...but I'm pretty certain the article says Li Yongbo is an honourable man
    Not exactly,this article reveals some of darkness behind the glory.

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