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  1. #18
    Regular Member huangkwokhau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy View Post
    Final score is not an accurate proof.

    In WC2003, CM and Mia both received a 0:11 to ZN. So, maybe we should also try to discover something within the matches? Please don't tell me CM and Mia are 5 levels below ZN at that time, or any time.
    Hm...may be I should not say the score then.....but It was obvious that HHB/YY was given by ZYW/Xiong.....if you were there and watched the game...it was so different and not ZYW/XZB's style....no attacks and just lob..lob..anyway...it was upping HHB/YY's ranking.....

  2. #19
    Regular Member huangkwokhau's Avatar
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    Match fixing in badminton is still legal....it is not like Tennis where so many Bettings going on....match fixing in tennis can cause you trouble eventhough you do not mean it.....several cases happened in Tennis....in Badminton...it was hard..remember that at one point, INA enjoyed this priviledge also when INA still have Alan, Fung, Joko, Ardi, Hermawan, Hariyanto..I forgot another one ( being called Magnificent 7 or something)...INA has many players to choose and select which one to go...one player has been ordered to tire another player, etc so next one can defeat them easier....I wish INA has many talents like China....You can not blame LYB... he did what he was supposed to do the best for his country....

  3. #20
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    Actually match fixing from Li Yongbo continues to go on and among all, Yeh Zhouying is the biggest victim even though Li said Yeh would share all the benefits same as the Olympic champion. That's quite absurd as how can you share the honor without the name in the record book?
    Li Yongbo said most of the players understand and have forgiven him which I am very doubtful about that. The only reason those players chose to mute is because Li is still in power and players even though have retired still remain active in badminton related field.
    The fair question to ask Li Yongbo is, would he sacrifice for the country if his coaches order him to do the same during his prime? Only he knows the answer.
    From achievement points of view, the strategy works, from ethics points of view, is cruel.

  4. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han View Post
    Actually match fixing from Li Yongbo continues to go on and among all, Yeh Zhouying is the biggest victim even though Li said Yeh would share all the benefits same as the Olympic champion. That's quite absurd as how can you share the honor without the name in the record book?
    Li Yongbo said most of the players understand and have forgiven him which I am very doubtful about that. The only reason those players chose to mute is because Li is still in power and players even though have retired still remain active in badminton related field.
    The fair question to ask Li Yongbo is, would he sacrifice for the country if his coaches order him to do the same during his prime? Only he knows the answer.
    From achievement points of view, the strategy works, from ethics points of view, is cruel.
    well, i guess in his dictionary there's no right or wrong. just winning or..........winning !!!

  5. #22
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Exclamation But LYB's strategy may not work all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Han View Post

    From achievement points of view, the strategy works, from ethics points of view, is cruel.

    But LYB's strategy may not work all the time.

    This was LYB's reasoning of late.

    1. Japan SS 2007: LCW beat LD (Semi-Finals)
    2. Denmark SS 2007: BCL beat LCW (Semi-Finals)

    But then, at the Denmark SS 2007 Final: LD beat BCL easily.

    So... for the French SS 2007 Final, LYB must be thinking that BCL should have a better chance to beat LCW. It is assumed that LYB had instructed LD to lose to BCL at the Semi-Finals, giving BCL another chance to beat LCW at the Final again.

    But this time, LYB's plan backfired.

    And this, perhaps, has deprived LD of another SS title.

    ***
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 11-12-2007 at 01:37 PM.

  6. #23
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Off topic-The Magnificent Seven..

    Quote Originally Posted by huangkwokhau View Post
    in Badminton...it was hard..remember that at one point, INA enjoyed this priviledge also when INA still have Alan, Fung, Joko, Ardi, Hermawan, Hariyanto..I forgot another one ( being called Magnificent 7 or something)...INA has many players to choose and select which one to go...
    ..actually they were consisted of Singles as well as Doubles players, which lasted from 1991 to 1996:
    Alan Budikusuma, Joko Suprianto, Ardy B. Wiranata, Hermawan Susanto and Fung Permadi in the singles and Eddy Hartono, (Rudy) Gunawan??, Ricky Subagja and Rexy Mainaky in the doubles
    http://www.thejakartapost.com/yester...d=20060530.T03

  7. #24
    Regular Member ants's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    But LYB's strategy may not work all the time.

    This was LYB's reasoning of late.

    1. Japan SS 2007: LCW beat LD (Semi-Finals)
    2. Denmark SS 2007: BCL beat LCW (Semi-Finals)

    But then, at the Denmark SS 2007 Final: LD beat BCL easily.

    So... for the French SS 2007 Final, LYB must be thinking that BCL should have a better chance to beat LCW. It is assumed that LYB had instructed LD to lose to BCL at the Semi-Finals, giving BCL another chance to beat LCW at the Final again.

    But this time, LYB's plan backfired.

    And this, perhaps, has deprived LD of another SS title.

    ***
    I dont think it deprived of Lindan a title. Bao in fact played well. I dont think there were a match "fixing" during the semis between Bao and LinDan.

  8. #25
    Regular Member ants's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taufik-ist View Post
    one of lyb's deep secrets revealed
    This was not a secret.. maybe many doesnt know about it. Some knew about it long ago but just let it go.. well i'm not suprised its in the news now.

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han View Post
    Actually match fixing from Li Yongbo continues to go on and among all, Yeh Zhouying is the biggest victim even though Li said Yeh would share all the benefits same as the Olympic champion. That's quite absurd as how can you share the honor without the name in the record book?
    Li Yongbo said most of the players understand and have forgiven him which I am very doubtful about that. The only reason those players chose to mute is because Li is still in power and players even though have retired still remain active in badminton related field.
    The fair question to ask Li Yongbo is, would he sacrifice for the country if his coaches order him to do the same during his prime? Only he knows the answer.
    From achievement points of view, the strategy works, from ethics points of view, is cruel.
    on the surface it seem cruel to the western world but in communist china, it isnt cruel but could be judge as honorable. Of course, time and behavior is changing in china, it would be harder to pull that fixing nowadays. Just look at XXZ, WC in 2003 but a nobody in 2004 (not in olympic team). Look at chen hong, 2005 WC but no longer in lyb short list in 2006(CH quit after that). Look at zhou mi, lots of juice left but lyb drop her in favor of younger gals. Are these fair too? hindsight, XXZ could have done well in 2004 athen as LD and bcl were still weak mentally back then. LYB: good calls in 2000 OG but bad call in 2004 OG. Like karma, it works both ways.

  10. #27
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    I am not sure whether such "match fixing" does good to a country. Once revealed, the country image suffers. And I do think "match fixing" does more bad than good in the long run for a country. It's similar to drug use. Are Canadians proud of Ben Johnson?

    Those who definitely benefited from "match fixing" are those in charge of sports, LYB and those ppl above him. The more medals they got, the more power and money they can have. To hell with the image of the country!

    Quote Originally Posted by huangkwokhau View Post
    Match fixing in badminton is still legal....it is not like Tennis where so many Bettings going on....match fixing in tennis can cause you trouble eventhough you do not mean it.....several cases happened in Tennis....in Badminton...it was hard..remember that at one point, INA enjoyed this priviledge also when INA still have Alan, Fung, Joko, Ardi, Hermawan, Hariyanto..I forgot another one ( being called Magnificent 7 or something)...INA has many players to choose and select which one to go...one player has been ordered to tire another player, etc so next one can defeat them easier....I wish INA has many talents like China....You can not blame LYB... he did what he was supposed to do the best for his country....

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    I am not sure whether such "match fixing" does good to a country. Once revealed, the country image suffers. And I do think "match fixing" does more bad than good in the long run for a country. It's similar to drug use. Are Canadians proud of Ben Johnson?

    Those who definitely benefited from "match fixing" are those in charge of sports, LYB and those ppl above him. The more medals they got, the more power and money they can have. To hell with the image of the country!
    it is obvious ur a very biased person who can't make fair judgement. It reflects on your blogs and other postings as well as i have known already (closed threads). How convenience of u replying to another american with a canadian example (ben johnson) when your hometown girl marion jones was a much bigger culprit: denied denied denied at first but now shed crocodile tears and have to return FIVE olympic medals.

    Marion Jones Returns Five Olympic Medals

    Oct. 8, 2007
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    (AP) Marion Jones has given up the five medals she won at the Sydney Olympics, days after admitting she used performance-enhancing drugs.


    for your information, taking ban substance is illegal. Game fixing your own players is not. Try to distinguish the differenece U can call it game fixing but in sports but a coach can instruct their players on play tactics within the game rules. The more u talk, the more u show us your bias.

    I bet u that if INA, MAL or any other countries with similar situation, would game fix too. U r crying foul because your home country didn't have this opportunity to do game fixing.

    corruption index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrupt...ceptions_Index
    china:72 (yellow)
    indonesia:143 (orange, dead bottom class)

    quit whining
    Last edited by cooler; 11-12-2007 at 06:30 PM.

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    But LYB's strategy may not work all the time.

    This was LYB's reasoning of late.

    1. Japan SS 2007: LCW beat LD (Semi-Finals)
    2. Denmark SS 2007: BCL beat LCW (Semi-Finals)

    But then, at the Denmark SS 2007 Final: LD beat BCL easily.

    So... for the French SS 2007 Final, LYB must be thinking that BCL should have a better chance to beat LCW. It is assumed that LYB had instructed LD to lose to BCL at the Semi-Finals, giving BCL another chance to beat LCW at the Final again.

    But this time, LYB's plan backfired.

    And this, perhaps, has deprived LD of another SS title.

    ***

    Well actually his strategy worked ! lol

    Actually Li Yongbo was not thinking that BCL had better chance than LD to beat LCW ... but before French Open, Bao Chunlai was still number 5 in the world.
    The problem is, that BCL has to be in the top 4 to be qualified for the OG ... However Lin Dan is absolutely sure to keep his Number 1 spot, therefore he ordered LD to lose the match to give BCL points.

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ants View Post
    I dont think it deprived of Lindan a title. Bao in fact played well. I dont think there were a match "fixing" during the semis between Bao and LinDan.
    Actually there was, Lin Dan's level was far behind his level in quater final or in the first round of the FO. he just played during the second game, but gave up during the first and third games ...

  14. #31
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    Look, all sports are governed by their respective organizations. Any breach of the rules-we are talking about rules and not ethics here that govern sports-should be left to the governing body concerned. If Li Yongbo has done something wrong by the rules, then the BWF should go after him.
    Another thing, Li Yongbo only reveals those behind the scene strategies that worked out, but would he reveal those that backfired? The former will sell a lot of his book, the latter will dent his image, in his desire to come out as a strong leader "working for the common goal even at the expense of hurting the individual".

  15. #32
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    If BWF does not raise issues with LYB match fixing, then all the power to CHN to have this match fixing privilege having abundance of world class players and for LYB to have the power to order a world #1 ranked player to lose out at a stage as big as OLY as in YZY's case, this setup cannot fly in North America or in Europe......on BCL beating LD in FO07, we do not have the video to see play-by-play but the score does not suggest match fixing, it was a 3 setter and as Ants said, Bao played well to win, maybe FO is not OLY and LYB does not care enough to fix that match...on match fixing at OLY where YZY losing to GZC, whether it sound cruel to Western World and honourable to CHN, one thing for sure, a player does not get a chance everyday to win a gold medal at OLY and YZY being world ranked #1 and winner of 2 WC, and being ordered to forfeit her last chance for OLY gold, that must hurt, being a champion the last thing you want to do is throw a match and no wonder she cried and that is damn cruel and not fair to her, and whether CHN, INA or any other nations resort to match fixing that is unfair to this sport as well.

  16. #33
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    [quote=Han;715605]Actually match fixing from Li Yongbo continues to go on and among all, Yeh Zhouying is the biggest victim even though Li said Yeh would share all the benefits same as the Olympic champion. That's quite absurd as how can you share the honor without the name in the record book?
    Li Yongbo said most of the players understand and have forgiven him which I am very doubtful about that. The only reason those players chose to mute is because Li is still in power and players even though have retired still remain active in badminton related field.
    The fair question to ask Li Yongbo is, would he sacrifice for the country if his coaches order him to do the same during his prime? Only he knows the answer.
    From achievement points of view, the strategy works, from ethics points of view, is cruel.
    Well said, Han and you know what....If the coaches have the all-mighty power, LYB would have no choice but to obey...but LYB would be banging his balls at home and piss off as hell...hehehe!!!

  17. #34
    Regular Member ants's Avatar
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    What LYB did was..not ethical.. but LYB may not be the only one who act alone. He also have a superior to report to.... and that is SUPER Sensitive.

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