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  1. #52
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    i think china just considered at next year olympik oni.....n they wan get more champion on it.....but malaysia sure can take champion even they train harder......

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    You guys make it sound like everyone except China has to participate in the SS finals. Fact is, the tournament is in shambles and nobody is required to play in it. Of course it's bad for the sport if players don't participate in the flagship event of the BWF but they aren't obligated to in any way. As stated before, the event happened to land in an Olympic qualification year so players are participating in every possible qualification tournament to secure their spot in the Games and are probably in need of rest before the 2008 season begins. Given that there are no points involved in this tournament, I'd be willing to bet that there will be more players not participating in the Finals if they even take place as they need to rest up and aren't really in need of the money.

  3. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sumbadder View Post
    You guys make it sound like everyone except China has to participate in the SS finals. Fact is, the tournament is in shambles and nobody is required to play in it. Of course it's bad for the sport if players don't participate in the flagship event of the BWF but they aren't obligated to in any way. As stated before, the event happened to land in an Olympic qualification year so players are participating in every possible qualification tournament to secure their spot in the Games and are probably in need of rest before the 2008 season begins. Given that there are no points involved in this tournament, I'd be willing to bet that there will be more players not participating in the Finals if they even take place as they need to rest up and aren't really in need of the money.
    only CHN needs to rest cos their players in poor shape.
    It's gonna be round robin style so players play a minimum of 3 matches and max of 5.And it's all for better money than usual;why would they not turn up? In fact am delighted CHN withdraw (because LYB knows his players unlikely to win); it means instead of BCL and LD, we' ll have TH and BP. Isn't that more exciting? Looking forward to it in jan 08. (Confirmed by Spore's CV)

  4. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    only CHN needs to rest cos their players in poor shape.
    It's gonna be round robin style so players play a minimum of 3 matches and max of 5.And it's all for better money than usual;why would they not turn up? In fact am delighted CHN withdraw (because LYB knows his players unlikely to win); it means instead of BCL and LD, we' ll have TH and BP. Isn't that more exciting? Looking forward to it in jan 08. (Confirmed by Spore's CV)
    depends on your version of exciting.

  5. #56
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    Default Walk the talk!

    Quote Originally Posted by sjoe View Post
    I don't tink is fair for China to say it now and boycott the final. If they disagree with the SS scheduling, it should have protested from the start. It should have gentlement's agreement, once you agree to participate let finish it and will review for the next one.

    Boycott is a form of protest, it is because of fustration. LYB must be very fustrated that his players can't perform consitently tournament after tournament. Well he has to adjust his methode of training if he agree to participate at the first place.
    If China is frustrated that the SS schedule is too much, why not walk the talk and reduce the China Masters SS to a GP Gold event? There. One SS down. Or... don't have any China Masters at all... [if there are internal Chinese pressures to send China players to their own GP Gold event]Either way, that's one week off the schedule if they so chooses... Don't just be frustrated, act! Beginning with a leadership action from yourself!

    Quote Originally Posted by sjoe View Post
    It would be disaster if other country will retaliate by pulling out from OG. May not be Indonesia or Malaysia but other country like Denmark, Britain, Thailand etc.
    Please please, no boycotts by anybody... boycotts will so annoy the Olympic Comittee that they might decide to drop badminton as an Olympic sport altogether! We all loose! By us, I mean badminton fans and people in the badminton world... I heard sports like golf can't wait to take badminton's place in the OG.

  6. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    If the SS Finals were to award ranking points, then it would not be fair for players who are not in the top 8 positions (who are not qualified to participate in it).
    I fail to see why this would not be "fair".. They all have had equal opportunity to be in the top 8 positions... participating in previous SS-events..

    /Twobeer

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    also remember that the attraction of SS Final is mostly for spectator and prize money. the anticipated prize money is very attractive, these are professionals afterall and they don't just go for ranking points but also the cash reward.
    The problem lies in the fact, that CHN players don't play as individuals, and thus the money incentive for these players is non existant.. I doubt they get to keep any prize money personally at all. Their results are measured by ranking points (and ultimately gold medals), not prize money..

    This structure, I think is also bad for the sport as the money needs to be bigger if we want it to grow commercially..

    Other pro players on the other hand will just be happy if CHN players don't take part in big money events, as it will make their way to the money easier..

    Fans like me however want to see the best players in action...

    /Twobeer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shifty View Post
    what many of you are forgetting, is that, yes, Wong Mew Choo, Peter Gade, and everyone non-chinese plays in the Super Series as well. BUT, they don't play as many games per tournament, cos they usually get kicked out before the finals. chinese players have usually played the longest routes to get to where ever they end up(usually winners).
    You are forgetting, that All chineese players don't reach the finals all the time..

    Also its a good chance they will get occasional easy games from WO's or given games from "team"-members :P

    So I don't think it is a fair assessment to say all Chinnese play more games..

    looking at some stats...

    in SS up to french..

    The number of total matches are Gade:22,Bao:26,LD:35,KJ:22,LCW:29...

    But if we take away the WO:s and "internal" CHN-team nmeetings it is:

    Bao:17, LD:27...

    /Twobeer

  9. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    And the reason why no ranking points will be given is because the SS Finals is an invitation event, while the ordinary SS events are open to all players.
    Chris... I think you have gathered some inaccurate information here...

    The SS Final is not an invitation event. You have to qualify for it. You have 12 SS chances throughout this competition year to accumulate as many points as possible. And then, ...with the blessing of your national association, you can possibly be one of the top player or pair of your country [max 2] to play in the SS Final.

    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    If the SS Finals were to award ranking points, then it would not be fair for players who are not in the top 8 positions (who are not qualified to participate in it).
    Then... is it also not fair to award ranking points in the World Championship and Olympic Games?!? Only max 4 players/pairs per category can represent his/her country in the WC... and max 3 in the OG... So there are many people in that country who are not qualified to participate...

    Actually, Chris, is it also not fair to only allow the highest ranked competitor to participate in a normal SS event? Many BWF registered player could not play in some SS because they are not ranked high enough compared to the others... Thus, they could not get any ranking points in that SS because they don't qualify... So? Not fair for these unqualified people?

    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    I fail to see why this would not be "fair".. They all have had equal opportunity to be in the top 8 positions... participating in previous SS-events..

    /Twobeer
    Yup, twobeer... I agree with you.

  10. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shifty View Post
    what many of you are forgetting, is that, yes, Wong Mew Choo, Peter Gade, and everyone non-chinese plays in the Super Series as well. BUT, they don't play as many games per tournament, cos they usually get kicked out before the finals. chinese players have usually played the longest routes to get to where ever they end up(usually winners).

    and what they're doing isn't really unfair on the other players. it's actually letting lower ranked opponents a chance to shine without the presence of China. it's actually pretty smart. as my dad often tells me, "win the matches you need to win, treat the others as a club game."

    i guess the Chinese are just doing that. they want to win the Olympics, and so, to them, the Super Series final is like the Vietnam open. it doesn't really matter if they win it or miss out.
    I believe you haven't been following trends for a while.CHN hasn't been winning the way they used to. the CO's a disaster. Probably the first time CHN gets less than half the titles and had it not been for official 'foul play', could have been only 1 out of 5 titles.
    Right now, CHN's desperate to maximise ranking points so they can field the max of 3 players per event. Even with that, CHN will unlikely land a title. If only 2 CHN per event, almost impossible for CHN to land a title because it means their players will have to be in lone ranger mode compared to team mode.
    The trend is non-CHN players have been improving while CHN 's just clinging onto the cliff.

  11. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    You are forgetting, that All chineese players don't reach the finals all the time..

    Also its a good chance they will get occasional easy games from WO's or given games from "team"-members :P

    So I don't think it is a fair assessment to say all Chinnese play more games..

    looking at some stats...

    in SS up to french..

    The number of total matches are Gade:22,Bao:26,LD:35,KJ:22,LCW:29...

    But if we take away the WO:s and "internal" CHN-team nmeetings it is:

    Bao:17, LD:27...

    /Twobeer
    Thanks for the revealing stats. Great work.

  12. #63
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Exclamation The SS Finals and the Olympics are both "Invitation" events

    Quote Originally Posted by Krisna View Post

    Chris... I think you have gathered some inaccurate information here...

    The SS Final is not an invitation event. You have to qualify for it. You have 12 SS chances throughout this competition year to accumulate as many points as possible. And then, ...with the blessing of your national association, you can possibly be one of the top player or pair of your country [max 2] to play in the SS Final.

    Then... is it also not fair to award ranking points in the World Championship and Olympic Games?!? Only max 4 players/pairs per category can represent his/her country in the WC... and max 3 in the OG... So there are many people in that country who are not qualified to participate...

    Actually, Chris, is it also not fair to only allow the highest ranked competitor to participate in a normal SS event? Many BWF registered player could not play in some SS because they are not ranked high enough compared to the others... Thus, they could not get any ranking points in that SS because they don't qualify... So? Not fair for these unqualified people?

    Hi Krisna,

    Perhaps I did not post correctly.

    To me, the SS Finals and the Olympics are both "Invitation" events.

    But I can see your point that if players wanted to be invited, then they have to gain ranking points to qualify for those events.

    I was comparing "Invitation" events to "Open" events.

    Cheers... chris@ccc
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    You are forgetting, that All chineese players don't reach the finals all the time..

    Also its a good chance they will get occasional easy games from WO's or given games from "team"-members :P

    So I don't think it is a fair assessment to say all Chinnese play more games..

    looking at some stats...

    in SS up to french..

    The number of total matches are Gade:22,Bao:26,LD:35,KJ:22,LCW:29...

    But if we take away the WO:s and "internal" CHN-team nmeetings it is:

    Bao:17, LD:27...

    /Twobeer
    are you counting all internal matches as a walk over? i recall that Bao and Lin Dan had a huge 3 setter in Korea. Chen Yu had a 3 setter against Chen Jin in the All Englands. i don't think all were "fixed". but you do have a point.

    the thing is though, we won't know the results until next year. IF, china comes out firing again next year, then China not attending will be proven as a smart choice. if they continue losing, then it's something different. BUT, until then, all we can really do is moan and groan. which i'd rather not do, and just watch who ever does go to the Finals.

  14. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    Hi Krisna,

    Perhaps I did not post correctly.

    To me, the SS Finals and the Olympics are both "Invitation" events.

    But I can see your point that if players wanted to be invited, then they have to gain ranking points to qualify for those events.

    I was comparing "Invitation" events to "Open" events.

    Cheers... chris@ccc
    ***
    Chris...

    In my opinion, we really cannot call OG and WC "invitation" event at all... In "invitational" events, you cannot sue or blame the organizers for not inviting you. It is the organizer's right to invite or not invite you.

    In OG,WC, and SS Final a player like Peter Gade can blame or even sue the organizers if they reject his request to play in those tournaments. He is ranked number 5 - 8 in the world and he is the highest ranked Danish MS player. Thus, it is Peter Gade's right to be included in those championships because he met all the requirements to participate.

    No invitation is extended at all for OC, WC, and SS Final. They are BWF tournaments where either you qualify or you don't. Yes they have different rules than normal "Open" events, but we cannot describe them as "invitation" events at all since no invitation whatsoever was extended.

  15. #66
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Question SS Finals, Olympics, World Championships are "restricted" tournaments

    Quote Originally Posted by Krisna View Post

    Chris...

    In my opinion, we really cannot call OG and WC "invitation" event at all...

    In OG, WC, and SS Final a player like Peter Gade can blame or even sue the organizers if they reject his request to play in those tournaments. He is ranked number 5 - 8 in the world and he is the highest ranked Danish MS player. Thus, it is Peter Gade's right to be included in those championships because he met all the requirements to participate.

    No invitation is extended at all for OC, WC, and SS Final. They are BWF tournaments where either you qualify or you don't. Yes they have different rules than normal "Open" events, but we cannot describe them as "invitation" events at all since no invitation whatsoever was extended.

    Hey Krisna,

    I have to agree with you that "invitation" might be the incorrect word to be used.

    I was thinking more in the 'positive' sense... that the organisers of the SS Finals, Olympics, World Championships, etc... are inviting only the top ranked players to participate.

    Perhaps, 'restricted' might be the correct word to be used... since the organisers are not actually sending out invitations.

    Cheers... chris@ccc
    ***

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    I have to agree with you that "invitation" might be the incorrect word to be used.

    I was thinking more in the 'positive' sense... that the organisers of the SS Finals, Olympics, World Championships, etc... are inviting only the top ranked players to participate.

    Perhaps, 'restricted' might be the correct word to be used... since the organisers are not actually sending out invitations.
    Aaah, 'restricted' is correct! Ha ha ha...

  17. #68
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    Oh well, their lost.

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