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  1. #69
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    if there is no china can taufik play???????

  2. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by d65up2 View Post
    if there is no china can taufik play???????
    mayb can... den wil PG participate?

  3. #71
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    maybe its a strategy by china

    as mentioned before, the china badminton players are unlike other countries player . Other countries player are often exposed to competition condition to allow them to improve , " a sort of training" or may be try out what they have learnt. On the other hand , China , they have to train alot just to participate one tournament , thats y before SS was introduced , china only participate in very pretigious events , and very often make a much more better performance .

    Maybe LYB wants them to start training?

  4. #72
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    anything china performance in the second half of the season is not satisfactory at all 1

  5. #73
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    In my opinion even at Super Series final, there need to be ranking point. Even Tennis Master Shield at year end had very large ranking points. The winner get about 650 points.

    Note: Grand Slam winner get 1000 points.

    And of course the most controversial rules made by BWF is only 3 players from the same country can play in Super Series finale that already been promote only best of the best can play there.

    So what the point being the number 4 or 5 rank in the world but can not compete in SS final just cause he or she only rank number 4 in his/her country. Strange and silly rules.

    And the most dumbest thing BWF did is , after only 16 days left to SS final event, BWF still not know where this event will play.

    Mean while in tennis, the association already planned this year end event 3 years ahead. lol

  6. #74
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    And BWF want to made badminton as popular as tennis. Huahahaha keep dream on if they did not do any significant change.

    The only change I saw BWF change so far:

    1. The name. Useless.

    2. The score. Not too helpful cause so far with new scoring still Asian players dominates most of the badminton results.

    3. Change the ranking scoring with higher score for all the matches. Pretty useless again. Cause lets face it, in badminton you dont need to win A super series event to get high scores.

    You only need to play lots of tournaments and try to at least reach quarter final. A winner of SS event get only 9200 points. A QF at SS event get 5040 points. So if you reach 2 QF at SS events, your points are more than winning one SS events. Very funny right?

    Lets see tennis score. Winner at Grand slam get 1000 points. QF only get 250 points. So a player had to reach 4 QF to equal one win at grand slam. and they only had 4 Grandslam a year.

  7. #75
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    And if we take World Champion ship event equal Grand Slam event. The scoring will be more silly.

    Cause After World Championship and Olympic points, SS events had the next highest points. But look at the points.

    World and Olympic winner will had 12000 points. SS events winner had 9200 points. So they had only 22.5% difference points. And if you reach 2 SS semifinal series you will get 6420 x 2= 12840.

    So 2 Semifinal at SS events will had more points than win Olympic or World CH which are the highest events in badminton world.

    But in tennis , Grand Slam winner will get 1000 points, and Master Series events winner (these are the next important events after GS) get 500 points. SF at Master series only get 250 points. So in tennis, you had to reach 4 Master Series SF to equal a Grand Slam winner.

    The only reason BWF made that kind of scoring is too made the top difference ranking points in Top 10 not too far away. Cause if the badminton point system follow tennis , Lin Dan and maybe LCW will leave all the players in dust in ranking points kind of Roger and nadal in tennis.

    BWF wanted to made impression that the fcompetition in badminton are very tight and fierce and the score between each players in top 20 or top 10 are very closed.

    And like we all knows, most of the time in any top badminton events, the same few players always show up at the SF or final stages.

    Other players probably reach lots of QF, one or two times in SF and maybe a final or a win in less top event. But their score are not too far from ranking number 1 and 2.

  8. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by hcpoirot View Post
    And of course the most controversial rules made by BWF is only 3 players from the same country can play in Super Series finale that already been promote only best of the best can play there.

    So what the point being the number 4 or 5 rank in the world but can not compete in SS final just cause he or she only rank number 4 in his/her country. Strange and silly rules.
    Max 2 per country, hcpoirot...

    Everything else, I agree completely with you!

  9. #77
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    Yeah, agree with the rules that describe about limitation of player from same country, sounds ridiculuous and unfair. The best of 8 should be meaning top-8 SS rank without any exceptional. I guess BWF just want to prevent one country too dominates SS Final.

  10. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by hcpoirot View Post
    The only reason BWF made that kind of scoring is too made the top difference ranking points in Top 10 not too far away. Cause if the badminton point system follow tennis , Lin Dan and maybe LCW will leave all the players in dust in ranking points kind of Roger and nadal in tennis.
    I don't think the intention from BWFs part really, is what you mentioned.. I think the intention from BWF part was to make sure players don't skip SS tournaments, thus giving good points for advancement in the tournaments, to maker it costly for the top players to skip tournaments ranking-point wise..

    /T

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisna View Post
    Max 2 per country, hcpoirot...

    Everything else, I agree completely with you!
    I think, the way LYB uses chineese players as "team" in the international torunaments is forcing BWD to limit the number of players. This is BWFs only way to stop match fixing.

    Sadly I think China is digging its own grave for its great athletes with all the WO's & retirements, and not all-out competetions between competitors from CHN.. The only way to stop this is really to put a limit to 2 player / country and place them on different halves in the draw.. Otherwise it will always be an advantage for players playing as a "team" against opponents playing each to their own..

    /Twobeer

  12. #80
    Regular Member wilfredlgf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    Sadly I think China is digging its own grave for its great athletes with all the WO's & retirements, and not all-out competetions between competitors from CHN..
    To be honest if I were a member of the top brass in sports of China I'd only ask if we came home with the gold/medal/trophy; the rest is just a matter of presentation. The current situation, especially in terms of talent pools as well as international regulations made it possible to do so and I'll find it hard to blame them for doing it - unless it's illegal of course.

  13. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    I think, the way LYB uses chineese players as "team" in the international torunaments is forcing BWD to limit the number of players. This is BWFs only way to stop match fixing.

    Sadly I think China is digging its own grave for its great athletes with all the WO's & retirements, and not all-out competetions between competitors from CHN.. The only way to stop this is really to put a limit to 2 player / country and place them on different halves in the draw.. Otherwise it will always be an advantage for players playing as a "team" against opponents playing each to their own..

    /Twobeer
    This debate will do on and on and on.... While I disagree with match fixing from any country past and present, and strongly believe players should play their best from a baddy fan perspective, but to limit CHN to only 2 players while CHN clearly dominate this sport, denied fans a spectacle to see the world best in contention. If I pay to see this SS finals, I want to see the world best players in action, after all why bother taking time off to fly and pay to see second rate players in action. I am not interested in who takes the gold, I want to see those players in live action showing us all their incredible moves and technics, etc.
    What I would like to see is there is no restriction on players from any country, and no match fixing, no w/o, and let them play all out to crown the champion...but that is not going to happen, when politics mix in with sport.
    Looking back, I considered lucky to be in Anaheim for WC05 in which 4 players from different countries in the MSSF, hence no match fixing and no w/o.

  14. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    What I would like to see is there is no restriction on players from any country, and no match fixing, no w/o, and let them play all out to crown the champion...but that is not going to happen, when politics mix in with sport.
    Looking back, I considered lucky to be in Anaheim for WC05 in which 4 players from different countries in the MSSF, hence no match fixing and no w/o.
    Of course we all wanna see the all the best Chineese players in action!!!

    But I really dont fancy to sit an watch games "mate" vs. "mate" players not "trying" to win..

    What I am saying is that if we don't get "real" matches, the lesser of two evils is just to ensure no "team-mates" vs. "team-mates" matchup are possible within the draw until final. Simply treat the MS elimination as a team event, if it actually today is played like that by some players..

    /Twobeer

  15. #83
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    If China will not attend the SS Final...that's OK..It's good for other players... Good...Good...

  16. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilfredlgf View Post
    To be honest if I were a member of the top brass in sports of China I'd only ask if we came home with the gold/medal/trophy; the rest is just a matter of presentation. The current situation, especially in terms of talent pools as well as international regulations made it possible to do so and I'll find it hard to blame them for doing it - unless it's illegal of course.
    I guess, It's all well if you are their top players,, but it must be quite frustrating and humiliating to have to play 2nd fiddle to the players currently considered to be the "favourites" on the team by the coach...

    Even if it is illegal, there is no way to 100% proove a match or w/o was fixed..

    The only way around it would be to implement regulations to make it less advantageous..

    The obvious solution is of course to have limited entries per "team" to the tournamnets, and make sure "team-members" always are on opposites halves of the draw.

    Maybe requiring players to have separate coaches, and to have players signing for tournaments and price maoney etc as individuals, not by the bodies and organisations in their countries and more clearly separate MS,MD,XD,WS,WD as separate events, may be one way to battle the "team"-thinking for individual events...

    /Twobeer

  17. #85
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Limited entries per "team" to the tournaments

    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post

    The obvious solution is of course to have limited entries per "team" to the tournaments, and make sure "team-members" always are on opposites halves of the draw.

    Maybe requiring players to have separate coaches, and to have players signing for tournaments and price money etc as individuals, not by the bodies and organisations in their countries and more clearly separate MS,MD,XD,WS,WD as separate events, may be one way to battle the "team"-thinking for individual events...

    Hi twobeer,

    This is actually happening in other sports... say, Swimming, for example.

    I just posted this in another thread "To improve the staging of Badminton at International matches" located at:
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...ad.php?t=50303

    Here, is what was posted...


    Under FINA rules, countries are allowed a maximum of two swimmers per individual event at the Olympics.

    In the USA and Australia, there are many swimmers who not could participate, but they could meet the time standards to qualify, and they who could beat other nations' top swimmers.

    Still, many support FINA rules...
    Why allow a nation to clean sweep all 3 medals (Gold, Silver, Bronze)?
    Why not allow more nations to participate ?

    FINA even allow Wildcards for their Olympics events.

    For those not familiar with Swimming, here is a USA article located at:
    http://universalsports.nbcsports.com...57?sport_id=21

    ====== ====== start article ====== ======

    Qualifying
    FINA, the world governing body for swimming, sets time standards that athletes must meet in order to qualify for the Olympics. Countries are allowed a maximum of two swimmers in each individual event and one team in each relay event. A country may only send two swimmers if those swimmers both qualify under the "A" time standard set by FINA.If a country does not have a swimmer(s) who qualifies for an event under FINA's "A" time, it may still send a swimmer to the Olympics if it has a competitor who meets FINA's "B" standard for an event. In this case, one and only one competitor from a country can contest the particular event. In all cases, a country's National Olympic Committee holds the authority on choosing which competitors who qualify under the time standards will compete in the Games. No nation may enter more than 26 men and 26 women in the swimming competition.

    10k open-water qualifying (men and women)
    • Top 10 finishers from the FINA World Open Water Swimming Championships on April 29-May 4, 2008 in Seville, Spain.
    • Top finishers from each of the five continental championships
    • Nine or 10 top finishers, FINA Olympic Marathon Swim Qualifier, May 31-June 8, 2008 in Beijing
    Total: 25 male athletes, 25 female athletes

    U.S. trials
    The United States swimming team for Beijing will be selected in July at the U.S. Swimming Trials in Omaha, Nebraska. Under FINA rules, countries are allowed a maximum of two swimmers per individual event at the Olympics. Since the time standards to qualify for the U.S. Trials are nearly as stringent as those to qualify for the Games, the U.S. will have maximum representation in all 27 individual events on the Olympic program. In the 100m and 200m freestyle events, the top six finishers at the Olympic Trials earned Olympic berths. The top two will swim the 100m and 200m individual events in Athens, while the others will be used to fill out the four-member relay teams. Having two extra swimmers allows those participating individually to skip relay preliminaries.

    Wildcards
    Federations(Nations) without qualified swimmers may enter one man and one woman (regardless of time standards) in one competition each of their choice, if the individual(s) participated in the 2007 Swimming World Championships. According to FINA rules, FINA will determine whether to allow the swimmer(s) to compete at the Olympics, "based on their performance."

    ====== ====== end article ====== ======

    I think FINA is more in tune with the Olympics Spirit than our BWF.

    Cheers... chris@ccc
    ***
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 12-04-2007 at 06:42 AM.

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