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  1. #18
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    Well, TV cameras can usually make a good replay of the shot and where the shuttle lands. For example, you can see in the All England numerous replays. Of course, those replays are usually done from QF to F, but nonetheless, it's better than nothing.
    I think they can make it with the current equipments they have. If a player wants to challenge, the TV and camera crew can make an instant replay and inform the judge that they caught the shuttle landing on video. If they don't, then the initial call stands.

    @chris@ccc
    The FINA has strict rules, and that is good. But is it for the Olympics only?
    For the usual competition in Badminton, I sincerely doubt the IBF won't allow more than 2 players or team per individual event...

  2. #19
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    The only REAL SOLUTION is to promote individualism in badminton. It doesn't matter how many more objections we make here, national pride will always override gamesmanship if the structure of badminton doesn't change.

  3. #20
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    By their very nature line calls are prone to human error. I'd also point out that mechanised systems are not fool proof either. It may help reduce
    controversy if none of the officials were from the same country as either of the players involved in the match (I'm surprised this isn't the case already). Wong8Egg is right, remove the nationalistic element from the competitions like in Tennis. I know you can't do this in the Olypics but who cares? These days, cheating itself is an Olypic event.

  4. #21
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Default In Tennis, the host country supplies the team of linespersons

    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post

    It may help reduce
    controversy if none of the officials were from the same country as either of the players involved in the match (I'm surprised this isn't the case already). Wong8Egg is right, remove the nationalistic element from the competitions like in Tennis.


    Even in Tennis, the host country supplies the team of linespersons. Only the umpire chosen is to be from a neutral country.

    However, we don't find as much of the 'cheating' controversy in Tennis as compared to Badminton.

    Why ?

  5. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    Even in Tennis, the host country supplies the team of linespersons. Only the umpire chosen is to be from a neutral country.

    However, we don't find as much of the 'cheating' controversy in Tennis as compared to Badminton.

    Why ?

    With the exception of the Davis Cup Tennis is not treated as a team sport. The players compete as individuals. The line calling issue will correct itself thanks to television. You can look at a replay and get a definative answer as to wether the bird was out or in. Eventually if a nation habitually makes questionable calls it will get noticed and action can be taken.

    The walkover issue is a little more complicated as it is harder to prove an injury or illness. However when a Country begins to abuse walkovers a statistical analysis can be brought to bear and it will become obvious. It was a bad sign when people were able to predict a walkover would occur in the Semis of the HK Open as soon as it was known two Chinese players were to face each other. In the long run it's self-destructive as in the future any legitimate retirements will look suspisious.

    For either issue it's best just to remove the Nationalistic element. I'm sure given the choice any player would rather play the match then give up. You don't get that far without being very competative.

  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    Even in Tennis, the host country supplies the team of linespersons. Only the umpire chosen is to be from a neutral country.

    However, we don't find as much of the 'cheating' controversy in Tennis as compared to Badminton.

    Why ?
    That's because line calls in tennis are monitored by a host of eyes... and not all of them are human and error-prone

    Also, CCTV is hardly the primary tennis broadcaster
    As such, spiking an inconvenient TV replay wouldn't be an option
    The instant replays would also be greatly embarrassing should someone try a Li Yongbo on the match

  7. #24
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Instant replay on the big screen at tournament venues

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post

    That's because line calls in tennis are monitored by a host of eyes... and not all of them are human and error-prone

    Also, CCTV is hardly the primary tennis broadcaster
    As such, spiking an inconvenient TV replay wouldn't be an option
    The instant replays would also be greatly embarrassing should someone try a Li Yongbo on the match

    I suppose you could say that instant replay on the big screen at tournament venues is one of the popular ways to check on dubious line calls. I am sure that many neutral umpires are wishing that this could happen today.

  8. #25
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    i agree with the camera on courts but i prefer unlimited challenges in the finals. and the camera only come into play starting at quarterfinals. yes i do know it is expensive. but maybe a simple handycam like the ones tourists use to take videos, at multiple points and connected to the big screen will do. this is because i really dont think much can be done to change the way linesman work and really some of them must be mistaken and not intentionally calling bad shots. i think cameras can at least give a better leverage to all players.

  9. #26
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    I suppose you could say that instant replay on the big screen at tournament venues is one of the popular ways to check on dubious line calls. I am sure that many neutral umpires are wishing that this could happen today.
    Exciting as it is, it's also an open invitation to rioting and spectator violence.

    Agreed that live badminton crowds aren't as large as those for football or cricket... but they are no less emotionally involved.
    Risky, very risky, sir.

  10. #27
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    Why do we have so much controversy? It is badminton fans don't care enough. I know, I'm being harsh, but it isn't too far from the truth. If you pay your hard earned money to see a match, take your family and friends to the game and someone throws away a match or doesn't even play, you are essentially swindled out of your money. If badminton fans cared enough to cause an uproar or at least act as if they cared, then the organizers and WBF will care and do something about it. It is as simple as that. Same with bad line judges. If you put up with crap, you will get more crap. That is life.

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by azabaz_ipoh View Post
    i agree with the camera on courts but i prefer unlimited challenges in the finals. and the camera only come into play starting at quarterfinals. yes i do know it is expensive. but maybe a simple handycam like the ones tourists use to take videos, at multiple points and connected to the big screen will do. this is because i really dont think much can be done to change the way linesman work and really some of them must be mistaken and not intentionally calling bad shots. i think cameras can at least give a better leverage to all players.
    Unfortunately unlimited challenges will break the flow of the game. Normally during a match you may get 2 or 3 questionable calls. Limit the challenges to this number. It's manageable and won't deteriorate into a challenge farce.

  12. #29
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Bad sign: When people are able to predict a walkover

    Quote Originally Posted by Loopy View Post

    Well, TV cameras can usually make a good replay of the shot and where the shuttle lands. For example, you can see in the All England numerous replays. Of course, those replays are usually done from QF to F, but nonetheless, it's better than nothing.

    I think they can make it with the current equipments they have. If a player wants to challenge, the TV and camera crew can make an instant replay and inform the judge that they caught the shuttle landing on video. If they don't, then the initial call stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post

    With the exception of the Davis Cup Tennis is not treated as a team sport. The players compete as individuals. The line calling issue will correct itself thanks to television. You can look at a replay and get a definitive answer as to whether the bird was out or in. Eventually if a nation habitually makes questionable calls it will get noticed and action can be taken.

    Yes, I think the 'bad' line calling issue will be solved (sooner than later) by television replays.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post

    It was a bad sign when people were able to predict a walkover would occur in the Semis of the HK Open as soon as it was known two Chinese players were to face each other. In the long run it's self-destructive as in the future any legitimate retirements will look suspicious.

    Looking back at the HK Open 2007 Semi-Finals, it was such an amusement when the announcement was made for the early retirement of the match between Lin Dan and Chen Jin.

    As soon as the announcement was made, many people jumped at the conclusion that Chen Jin was to be given a chance to make it to the Final.

    Quote Originally Posted by coolhandluke View Post

    If you pay your hard earned money to see a match, take your family and friends to the game and someone throws away a match or doesn't even play, you are essentially swindled out of your money. If badminton fans cared enough to cause an uproar or at least act as if they cared, then the organizers and WBF will care and do something about it. It is as simple as that. Same with bad line judges. If you put up with crap, you will get more crap.

    Unfortunately this has caused Badminton to be looked upon as a crappy sport to watch.

    Quote Originally Posted by madbad View Post

    Unfortunately unlimited challenges will break the flow of the game. Normally during a match you may get 2 or 3 questionable calls. Limit the challenges to this number. It's manageable and won't deteriorate into a challenge farce.

    To prevent it from turning into a farce, we definitely need to set a limit to the number of challenges.

  13. #30
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Exclamation BWF is required to introduce the 'Hawk-Eye' ASAP

    .
    After reading so much of the allegeable "bad line calls" at the Korea Open Super Series 2008, it is only wished that BWF will introduce the 'Hawk-Eye' ASAP.

    It is so sad to see how many players, coaches, officials and even spectators are overreacting over line calls.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 01-28-2008 at 09:36 PM.

  14. #31
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Question Hawk-Eye System: What is IT ???

    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    .
    After reading so much of the allegeable "bad line calls" at the Korea Open Super Series 2008, it is only wished that BWF will introduce the 'Hawk-Eye' ASAP.

    .
    For those who do not know what the 'Hawk-Eye' system is... here is an explanation, located at Wikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawk-Eye
    .

  15. #32
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up BWF will consider introducing technologies used in tennis and cricket

    .
    BWF will consider introducing technologies used in tennis and cricket. Here is an article from Reuters.

    ====== ====== start article ====== ======
    Probe launched into Korean Open bust-up

    LONDON, Feb 2 (Reuters) - The Badminton World Federation will investigate scuffles that marred last week's men's singles final at the Korea Open and will consider introducing technologies used in tennis and cricket.

    Anne Smillie, chair of the BWF sport committee, has called for a full report and said such incidents were happening too often.

    Last Sunday's final of the Super Series event between China's Lin Dan and eventual winner Lee Hyun-il of South Korea featured a number of line calls overruled by the umpire, which led to scuffles and heated exchanges.

    "All of this is damaging to the image of our sport and undermines confidence in the results," Smillie said in a statement.

    "Players, coaches, technical officials and team officials at court side have a code of behaviour to follow.

    "The game needs to be exciting and closely fought, but we all want to see the result determined by the players, not by courtside officials -- or who can argue the loudest."

    Smillie said the BWF would look at other options to take the heat out of official decisions, including technologies used in tennis and cricket.

    BWF deputy president Punch Gunalan said: "In this Olympic year, when badminton will be under the microscope in Beijing, the players need to be confident that the game is officiated professionally, while respecting the technical officials' decisions."

    The BWF will hold meetings at the next Super Series event, the All England Open in Birmingham in March, where the issue of technology will be discussed.

    The sport committee is also talking to referees and umpires to look at the possibility of having independent umpires operating as line judges during major semi-finals and finals.

    World number one Lin has refused to apologise for his part in the fracas in Seoul, which began when he threw his racket in the direction of South Korea's singles coach Li Mao, who is also Chinese.

    The throwing incident sparked a shouting match between Lin and Li and play was momentarily halted as match officials struggled to restore order.

    Lin's coach Zhong Bo also intervened, pushing Li, who shoved him back, and officials had to step in to separate them.

    ====== ====== end article ====== ======
    *

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