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  1. #18
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    Yeah, look at the ISO3200 performance That's what you need!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    In any case, I'd be surprised if they provide 3,000 lux indoor, much less 4,000.
    4000 Lux will be at least 2 stops brighter than HK Open. that will be quite something. i cannot imagine taking badminton photos at 1/1000s and then at the same time go as slow as ISO400.

    but wouldn't we know already? have they already installed the lighting system? they had a test event in the stadium a few months ago, right?

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    Oldhand, do you know what types of lighting are being used in badminton avenues? Is it fluorescent or other types? For really good colour reproduction when taking photos, the stadium's colour rendering index from the lighting must be close to Ra 100, which I don't believe fluorescents can deliver. For HDTV does the small size of a badminton court require 2,000 lux for one court?

  4. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    4000 Lux will be at least 2 stops brighter than HK Open. that will be quite something. i cannot imagine taking badminton photos at 1/1000s and then at the same time go as slow as ISO400.

    but wouldn't we know already? have they already installed the lighting system? they had a test event in the stadium a few months ago, right?
    The lights now in use are 'guide fittings' - these are dummy sets that allow the lighting designer to fine tune the throw, spill, intensity, hot-spots, etc. Aspects like layer height, colour correction, heat dissipation, overlaps, etc will come into the design zone later. Still later, the signals/optics chaps will come down with their toys to check how everything comes together for the TV cameras.

    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Oldhand, do you know what types of lighting are being used in badminton avenues? Is it fluorescent or other types? For really good colour reproduction when taking photos, the stadium's colour rendering index from the lighting must be close to Ra 100, which I don't believe fluorescents can deliver. For HDTV does the small size of a badminton court require 2,000 lux for one court?
    Flourescent is generally bad news for television... adjusting to the flicker is a broadcast engineer's nightmare, you know

    You must note that, as far as the area where the action takes place is concerned, the lighting design is always dictated by television.
    In very basic terms, this design depends on:
    a) the total number of cameras watching the action,
    b) the new technology, if any, planned to be used, and
    c) the quality of light required (and not the quantity)

    I have very little information on the specifics demanded by the Beijing Games technical committee but Gilles Page, one of the world's top sports lighting designers, did say that the organisers' specifications for lighting installation was 40% higher than previously used for standard cameras (this is a bit less than the usual 1.5 times).

    Interestingly, apart from HMI instruments, high-intensity vapour lamps, cool spots and high-power LEDs, China is also using an inexpensive light source to augment the electrical installation - as they say, no one lights like the sun (This system uses hundreds of fibre-optic light pipes, each more than half-a-metre in diameter, fixed in the ceiling... and the light is clean and truly amazing )
    Take a look at one sample: http://en.beijing2008.cn/cptvenues/v...14196465.shtml

    As for badminton's requirements, China is bound to focus a lot on this sport, simply because it is the powerhouse. If super-slow-mo is being installed for badminton (they have confirmed it for athletics, gymnastics and basketball - probably because of the large US audience), I'm sure the inner thirds of the courts will have at least 2,000 lux.

  5. #22
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    The lighting equation is different for the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games.
    This time, a much higher level of lighting has been planned.

    The main reasons are:
    1. Live TV coverage will be in High-Definition (HD cameras need plenty of well-directed light).
    2. The new super slow-motion cameras require brighter and very even lighting.
    3. Higher contrasts are required (spectator areas vs. action areas) for fine modelling (so that the action doesn't look flat).
    4. The ECU cameras (those dedicated to extreme close-ups) usually use range-extenders, which calls for an extra-extra dose of light (note that they are HD lenses too).
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    I have very little information on the specifics demanded by the Beijing Games technical committee but Gilles Page, one of the world's top sports lighting designers, did say that the organisers' specifications for lighting installation was 40% higher than previously used for standard cameras (this is a bit less than the usual 1.5 times).

    Interestingly, apart from HMI instruments, high-intensity vapour lamps, cool spots and high-power LEDs, China is also using an inexpensive light source to augment the electrical installation - as they say, no one lights like the sun (This system uses hundreds of fibre-optic light pipes, each more than half-a-metre in diameter, fixed in the ceiling... and the light is clean and truly amazing )
    ..interesting infos..But just a bit curious, can you share or is/are there any link(s) which confirm that the lighting equation in 2008 OG will be different and/or they're going to use newer camera/equipments?? Or you have inside infos??..And if they're different, how much different will they be in comparison to the cameras/equipments used 4 yrs ago in Athens??..thx
    Last edited by ctjcad; 12-16-2007 at 02:01 PM.

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    What Oldhand refers to is light pipe technology. Light pipe technology is available in North America for residential and commercial buildings.

  7. #24
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..interesting infos..But just a bit curious, can you share or is/are there any link(s) which confirm that the lighting equation in 2008 OG will be different and/or they're going to use newer camera/equipments?? Or you have inside infos??..And if they're different, how much different will they be in comparison to the cameras/equipments used 4 yrs ago in Athens??..thx
    What I've shared is no more than industry knowledge
    At the minimum, I'd be quartered, guillotined and pulped (and not necessarily in that order) if I were to give out any specifics

    The Non-Disclosure Agreements used by the Beijing Games organisers are unpleasantly strict. So far, the companies involved in the Olympic infrastructure projects have not been allowed to refer to their work, much less commercially brag about it (another term for advertising )

    Of course, that will change.
    We should be able to talk more about the 'inside' as we go along

  8. #25
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Hmm..

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    What I've shared is no more than industry knowledge
    At the minimum, I'd be quartered, guillotined and pulped (and not necessarily in that order) if I were to give out any specifics

    The Non-Disclosure Agreements used by the Beijing Games organisers are unpleasantly strict. So far, the companies involved in the Olympic infrastructure projects have not been allowed to refer to their work, much less commercially brag about it (another term for advertising )

    Of course, that will change.
    We should be able to talk more about the 'inside' as we go along
    i see..so, i take it that the infos are "inside" infos?!..

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    Alright, you asked for it...

    It greatly depends on the sport and its FOP.

    For instance, badminton's activity area is much much larger compared to that of, say, boxing or gymnastics (except the floor routines). Also, the pace of action in badminton is critically different from that in, say, wrestling.

    The lighting director for the sports venues (and, today, this is always a television guy) will typically have three different lighting arrangements, all of them tailored to meet TV coverage specifications:
    1. Normal Lighting - this is for spectator areas - all you need is to see the people and their reactions clearly - a single spectator's face is taken as the intensity guide
    2. Action Lighting - this is for the Field Of Play - the lighting must be sufficient to allow swift panning and must clearly define the features of the competitors and the principal referee
    3. High-Lighting - this is for the defining areas within the FOP - simply put, these are the spots that generate the majority of action-replays - e.g., the net in volleyball, within the 3-point line and the key (the free-throw lane) in basketball, the tunnel (the dive trajectory) in diving, etc

    800 lux is standard for spectator fills, 1000-1200 is the norm for the arena (the FOP), 1,200-1,400 is the norm for low-slow-mo (e.g., swimming, wrestling, the balance beam) and 1400-1600 is the minimum for high-slow-mo (e.g., badminton, fencing, basketball). Of course, these levels are for SD (Standard Definition) cameras.

    Since HD requires at least 1.5 times the SD intensity to achieve a clean, fluid picture without motion artifacts and edge blurs, anything less than 2,500 lux in the defining areas is bound to be less than satisfactory for fast-action sports.

    Given that higher intensities might interfere with the conduct of the sport and the performance of the competitors, HD cameras with range extenders might be out of the question in indoor arenas.

    In any case, I'd be surprised if they provide 3,000 lux indoor, much less 4,000.
    Interesting to come back to this. The HK Open has changed venues and the lighting is different. I think they are using 1600 lux. In fact, it was set higher the first time they tried it (last year) but the players complained the lights were too bright.

  10. #27
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    so how bright was it in terms of photo-exposure-speak? Trying to gauge the difference between a BWF-setup tourney vs local events here

  11. #28
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    ISO 1600, 1/640th, f2.8 for the show courts.

    Outer courts need ISO 2000 to maintain those same settings.

  12. #29
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    That's actually pretty well lit . Makes the gyms over here seems like they are candle-lit

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