Short, skinny, weak looking... monster player.

**Big L4** · 12-23-2007, 11:33 AM

It's been two years since i have actually been training for badminton, but i can't keep noticing something pretty weird: some little guys (majority:chinese or asian) hit pretty hard compared to other tall and players. For example, once at a tournement, i saw a guy like about 1,50 m tall... and he hits as hard as our coach! (plus, he was skinny). Can anyone explain that PLZZZZ.

**hybridragon** · 12-23-2007, 12:35 PM

Hasn't anyone told you not to judge a book by its cover? lol

The thing is, if you have good fundamentals such as footwork and strokes, you'll generate plenty of power. Heck, I've seen girls that generate more power than the average guy badminton player. Badminton isn't about muscles and power, it's about finesse.

**Ayame** · 12-23-2007, 12:40 PM

I agree with hybrid, don't judge a book by it's cover. I saw a doubles match in which one of the guys was really really short and skinny but had a crazy hard smash.

**Big L4** · 12-23-2007, 12:45 PM

Ok, i agree that there is finesse involved but muscles also play a role (if you don't have muscles, how do you even hit the shuttle or lift the racket). Plus, if you say that it's because of their finesse, then players with a good body build should be hitting shuttles like a train hitting a fly. So, in my opinion, it is not because of finesse that they can hit the shuttle so hard. oh and... it's the EXPLANATION of HOW they DO IT.

**hybridragon** · 12-23-2007, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Big L4

Ok, i agree that there is finesse involved but muscles also play a role (if you don't have muscles, how do you even hit the shuttle or lift the racket). Plus, if you say that it's because of their finesse, then players with a good body build should be hitting shuttles like a train hitting a fly. So, in my opinion, it is not because of finesse that they can hit the shuttle so hard. oh and... it's the EXPLANATION of HOW they DO IT.

Now read what I wrote:

Hasn't anyone told you not to judge a book by its cover? lol

The thing is, if you have good fundamentals such as footwork and strokes, you'll generate plenty of power. Heck, I've seen girls that generate more power than the average guy badminton player. Badminton isn't about muscles and power, it's about finesse.

I did tell you how to power should be generated. A proper badminton stroke from a physically weaker player will generate more power than a player with lots of muscles with worse form.

If you want me to be more specific then here are somethings that help people generate the power and angle that most people tend to not get:
~Getting there and hitting the bird in front of you.
~Proper transition of power into the bird when you hit the bird.
~Making full use of the power from the body instead of just the arm. That means using the power of the legs and torso when jump smashing, using the power of the hips, shoulder turn when doing a backhand, and using the power of the fingers for flick shots.

These are just some of the factors that enable smaller players to overpower larger-looking players who don't have as good as a form as them.

And I didn't say muscles don't play a role. I said they play a minor role compared to finesse. They are add-ons compared to how finesse is crucial to the game.

**cooler** · 12-23-2007, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Big L4

Ok, i agree that there is finesse involved but muscles also play a role (if you don't have muscles, how do you even hit the shuttle or lift the racket). Plus, if you say that it's because of their finesse, then players with a good body build should be hitting shuttles like a train hitting a fly. So, in my opinion, it is not because of finesse that they can hit the shuttle so hard. oh and... it's the EXPLANATION of HOW they DO IT.

if u pay a coach, he'll tell u. In fact, he/she might show u.

It is player dependent

**Polar Bear** · 12-23-2007, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Big L4

Ok, i agree that there is finesse involved but muscles also play a role (if you don't have muscles, how do you even hit the shuttle or lift the racket). Plus, if you say that it's because of their finesse, then players with a good body build should be hitting shuttles like a train hitting a fly. So, in my opinion, it is not because of finesse that they can hit the shuttle so hard. oh and... it's the EXPLANATION of HOW they DO IT.

Ok you are being alittle bit extreme in your emphasis on muscles. First off if you don't have muscles you have bigger problems than hitting a shuttle or lifting a raquet. So right off the bat your characterisation of these players is in error. You're analogy of a train hitting a fly is also a tad goofy. By that logic a 500 lb fat ass should be able to generate tremendous smashes.

Mass is a factor in both the generation of Force and Momentum but, in the case of a raquet striking a bird it is the mass of the raquet and not the mass of the person that is acting on the bird. So, in this case the differences in smashes are due to differences in acceleration (for force) and angular velocity (for momentum). Also important is something called impulse which is the force multiplied by the time in which the force is acted upon a body. This determines how much momentum is transferred to the object. The timing or 'finesse' of a persons swing determines this impulse and thus how efficiently momentum is trasferred from the raquet head to the bird.

Please bear in mind this is a grossly simplified expanaition.

**Athelete1234** · 12-23-2007, 01:27 PM

Bad form= 10% of muscle strength put into bird. You're wasting your energy like this

Good form= 80-100 transfer of strength into bird.

These are far from accurate, but with proper technique, you can increase your power exponentially without requiring huge muscles.

**Big L4** · 12-23-2007, 01:52 PM

But then why the heck don't i see alot of strong guys hit the shuttle as well as the small guys? I only see little shrimps doing it right. And one more thing, i never said i was putting all the credit into muscles alone, i myself am skinny and hit harder than alot of stronger guys, but i still don't hit as well as the shorties. Plus, they seem always tireless, but they should be spending more energy than tall people (provided that they both have the same skill in footwork).

**Athelete1234** · 12-23-2007, 01:57 PM

You're probably playing with the wrong people then...

**Polar Bear** · 12-23-2007, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Big L4

Plus, they seem always tireless, but they should be spending more energy than tall people (provided that they both have the same skill in footwork).

"They seem", "they should". Your problem is you are dealing with your perceptions and then applying generalisations. Look, if you could just draw linear extrapolations of skill from physical characteristics we wouldn't need tournaments and competitions. Every match would be predetermined. Of course if you are a fatalist then you already believe that anyways.

**Big L4** · 12-23-2007, 02:50 PM

oh and dang it... no one was able to explain.

**Polar Bear** · 12-23-2007, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Big L4

oh and dang it... no one was able to explain.

Not so, you just don't get it.

**jerby** · 12-23-2007, 03:28 PM

because the shorter people have better technique.
Better timing, better technique, probably better footwork. It's not about muscles, all this has been said at least 11 times in this thread...

Now, begging the question, could those strong/tall guys hit harder if they had the same skills...Maybe

**Gollum** · 12-23-2007, 03:50 PM

A powerful smash is primarily about technique and timing.

Big muscles won't necessarily help at all. For power in badminton, you need fast muscles: sudden, explosive movements.

The kinds of training that develop large muscles do not make those muscles fast. That's not to say that large muscles are bad -- not at all -- but rather that your muscles need to be trained for explosive power (regardless of how big they are).

**Big L4** · 12-23-2007, 04:19 PM

I KNOW THAT MUSCLES MEAN NOTHING IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TECHNIQUE!!! I NEVER SAID I PUT ALL THE CREDIT IN THE MUSCLES!!!!!

**macca** · 12-23-2007, 04:33 PM

chill out mate.

What people are trying to say, is that anyone can have a good smash with the propper form.

Tall people can smash just as hard as anyone else. OK being a bit stronger might help ONCE you have the proper form and footwork etc, but its not the be all and end all.

Maybe there are just lots of good short people where you live *shrugs*.

Oh, and with the correct positioning and movement, you expend less energy getting to shots.