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  1. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optiblue View Post
    Smasher8

    To BennyC,

    To help him save some breath...

    1. What are the difference between Yonex Nanospeed 8000 and Apacs Nanospeed 8000 in terms of material & etc.?

    See, the thing about Apacs is that they're a good compay who doesn't make fakes of the real one, rather they're a company that makes their own racquet line just that their colors mimic that of yonex. That said, there's better quality control, and the things that should be there like the metal T joints and screws in the shaft/handle are all there making the quality factor there. Performance wise, they can't possibly be exactly the same as Yonex, but much closer than a Fake one with no quality controls.

    2. Is Apacs' racket considered as FAKE / COPY as well?

    Copy

    3. Did you personally have seen the screw that was in the shaft to hold the racket?

    I have never seen a APAC's Racquet in real life, but I can tell you my old fake ones did not have the screws under the base grip.



    For those who have the fake & also the genuine racket,

    1. Has anyone broke their FAKE & GENUINE rackets?

    After smashing hard, the head will break off the shaft and you'll notice that there's an absence of the metal T joint piece which gives it strength. My friends have had their fake ones break @ the shaft /cone area.

    2. Has anyone seen what inside the GENUINE racket which the FAKE doesn't have?

    People have done some X-ray's on the forum here: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...ght=x-ray+fake

    Pictures speak for themselves. Bottom line, don't buy fakes... if you're low on cash and want a yonex, buy an apacs at the very least. Otherwise, there's many other very good quality brands out there which are cheaper but less popular like carlton's etc.



    Well said... Don't even risk 25% of a real racquet funds!
    LMAO! thanks optiblue, sure saved me some time =]

    To Smasher8:

    Ive had a racket shaft fly right out of the handle( just missed my partner when i went for smash at the back playing doubles) and ive seen the handle and shaft crumble when a guy went for a smash. Ive also experienced the tjoint area starting to snap off..which could of been EXTREMEL|Y dangerous. A couple months ago, i bought a couple fakes from differnet sellers for testing purposes because a number of my friends were thinking of buying some but i thought that having a fake will have some major conseqences. As i had guessed, fakes are a complete waste of money and quite dangerous. Like Optiblue has said, invest your money into other brands such as carlton, wilson, sotx, etc because they are still high end rackets for a very economical price =]
    Last edited by BennyC; 12-30-2007 at 05:02 PM.

  2. #19
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    I have a Nanospeed 9000S genuine racket and the Nanospeed 9000X fake racket. I also have a Nanospeed 8000 genuine racket, Ti10 and many more in my racket bag. What I'm saying is that the fake ones that I own, are pretty darn good. I haven't broke one yet, but I can assure you they have the T-joints in them. I will post some pictures next week when I get my camera back. I'm sure there are many companies that produce these fake ones, but there are some good ones out there too. I can't tell the difference with the ones I have. I'm an intermediate player that loves to play aggressively and have never had any problems. I'll let all of you know as time passes how the fake ones are holding up. Happy playing!!

  3. #20
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    Default iow dun comment on fakes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Athelete1234 View Post
    Someone cut open an MP77 and posted the pictures on another forum. You could clearly see the Ultimum Ti wires in the shaft. I think you can see some in my broken MP99. Also, somebody used an X-ray and found out Yonex fakes have no T-joint.


    You guys shouldn't be using your own personal experience to describe fakes; each fake is a different racquet as there are no quality controls, and there is no standard. One fake can be well made, another could be a piece of garbage. You never know what kind of racquet you get until it's too late.
    Then how do you propose we comment on fakes then? Why should yonex be given the benefit of personal experience but others not? How did you form the impression that fakes are of unstable quality if not from personal experience either from your own or hearsay? Or is the only valid experience with fakes bad? Will there be a measurable decline in your game if your racket did not feature any of the technologies you mentioned?

    I'm only playing the devils advocate because my personal experience with fakes/copies ain't all bad. I actually like my apacs more thant quite a few of my more expensive yy. It outlasted some of them and costs significantly less. This is not saying that all the fakes (or even apacs) are good but there are good rackets out outside of yy.

    Btw, the apacs did not have a builtin t-join.

  4. #21
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    Dont forget that apacs is like their own company which makes COPY's( not fakes) of Yonex rackets(not all but some). What does this mean? The have to keep a reputation up as well by having good quality rackets that are up to standards. So APACS should not be compared to a fake because they simply arent exactly fakes but arent exactly Yonex. APACS are their own individual brand. Fakes are jsut imitations of a comapny's rackets and still using that compnay's name illegally. We must be comparing a genuine and a fake yonex racket. I will use one i have had as an example. i had a real and fake NS9000X in my hand. The real one felt nice and stiff..the fake one felt very flexible. When i tried to twist the real one, it stayed straight. When i tried to twist the fake one, it actually twisted around. I looked for the screw in the real one, it was there. I checked the fake one, it it wasnt there. This is how we should be comparing FAKES. Comparing APACS to YONEX is not comparing fakes...but rather comparing brands. So plz, stop using APACS as an example because their are their own brand and WILL make good quality products! Thats just my input of what i have to say.

  5. #22
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    Let's put aside the issues of feels and performance for just a while, because these are subjective opinion and you cannot get everyone to agree on the same thing.

    But let's just consider one point: fake (I am strictly talking about fake here, not copy or clone) is made by manufacturers knowingly violate copyright/patent laws. This is illegal not matter how you look at it. By knowingly buying a fake racket is supporting such illegal activties and in a way encouraging these manufacturers to produce more.

    If a genuine Yonex is priced out of you budget, go get another brand instead. There are todays many brands out there today, such as APAC, WINNEX, Fleet etc that are affordable and they are legitimate business.

    I really donot see any reason why someone want to support any illegal activities by knowingly buying a fake. We need to be honest to ourselve.

    By the way, I take the same stand on other product, be it DVD, CD etc... Personally I think we need to make a stand on what is legal/illegal - my apologies if this sounds like preaching.

  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by weeyeh View Post
    Then how do you propose we comment on fakes then? Why should yonex be given the benefit of personal experience but others not? How did you form the impression that fakes are of unstable quality if not from personal experience either from your own or hearsay? Or is the only valid experience with fakes bad? Will there be a measurable decline in your game if your racket did not feature any of the technologies you mentioned?

    I'm only playing the devils advocate because my personal experience with fakes/copies ain't all bad. I actually like my apacs more thant quite a few of my more expensive yy. It outlasted some of them and costs significantly less. This is not saying that all the fakes (or even apacs) are good but there are good rackets out outside of yy.

    Btw, the apacs did not have a builtin t-join.
    We cant. But the majority of people who have played with fakes have found them to be terribly made racquets, and nothing like the real thing. The only thing anybody can say is , the fake is not the same as a the real. Does the fake AT700 have the same shaft flex and balance point, as well as the vibration dampening and feel as the real one? Does it even have the same paint job? If you want a racquet where you know what the quality is, go for the real AT700 and pay your $$$. If you want a fake and think you get a good racquets, pay $10-$100 US for either a garbage racquet, or an okay fake. Either way, you're not getting an AT700, so you have no idea what kind of racquet you got.

    As for the effects of your game when using a fake? Most dont' have the high modulus graphite in the frame or shaft, and are flexy because of this material defect. As well, the kind of design which is created by Yonex warrants the need for a built in T-joint; which fakes do not have. I've seen pictures of fake racquets with the head completely seperated from the head, because the T-joint did not hold together. And as for quality? The process of creating racquets is an expensive one to create good quality equipment. You think fakers really care? I've seen an intermediate who had a fake NS8000 and it snapped from a frameshot. Why? No quality controls; your racquet may be as durable as a steel racquet, or as fragile as a glass plate. So what am I trying to say from all of this? Dont' get fakes; it's not worth it; buy a cheap Yonex, SOTX, Gosen, etc.
    My 2 cents/
    Last edited by Athelete1234; 12-31-2007 at 01:13 PM.

  7. #24
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    Happy New Year to everyone.

    Thank you to everyone who have contributes their opinions and shared the views in here. I really appreciate it very much.

    Eat BADMINTON, Sleep BADMINTON & Play BADMINTON.

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athelete1234 View Post
    We cant. But the majority of people who have played with fakes have found them to be terribly made racquets, and nothing like the real thing. The only thing anybody can say is , the fake is not the same as a the real. Does the fake AT700 have the same shaft flex and balance point, as well as the vibration dampening and feel as the real one? Does it even have the same paint job? If you want a racquet where you know what the quality is, go for the real AT700 and pay your $$$. If you want a fake and think you get a good racquets, pay $10-$100 US for either a garbage racquet, or an okay fake. Either way, you're not getting an AT700, so you have no idea what kind of racquet you got.

    As for the effects of your game when using a fake? Most dont' have the high modulus graphite in the frame or shaft, and are flexy because of this material defect. As well, the kind of design which is created by Yonex warrants the need for a built in T-joint; which fakes do not have. I've seen pictures of fake racquets with the head completely seperated from the head, because the T-joint did not hold together. And as for quality? The process of creating racquets is an expensive one to create good quality equipment. You think fakers really care? I've seen an intermediate who had a fake NS8000 and it snapped from a frameshot. Why? No quality controls; your racquet may be as durable as a steel racquet, or as fragile as a glass plate. So what am I trying to say from all of this? Dont' get fakes; it's not worth it; buy a cheap Yonex, SOTX, Gosen, etc.
    My 2 cents/
    If u're a beginner..try ur best to buy a cheap racket.That way u can play safer.U don't have to cry after clashes u've made.This way u can understand how good is a high-end racket in the future,after u have one.Besides,it looks better that way.Don't try to be look like a pro but play like a crap.U don't want ppl to say anything like that to u.

    If u're good..try ur best to buy a good decent racket.This way,the racket will help u show ur best performance.I've personally seen or experienced how much ppl like to know about a good player.Ppl wanna know every single thing about them.What racket they use,what shoes,what bag,etc.

    If u think all the fakes n copy were terribly made,u're wrong..maybe it's because of what happend in ur country,where fakes r all cheap ends.Like i said before,fakes in china,appears to have their own low n high ends.Well,we can't compare them to yy's high end rackets,for what they cost..but these things r sometimes worthed for what they cost.

    Internal t-joints,nano,elastic-ti,TI,armor,woven,etc..r just some bunch of new techs that helps player more n more.Doesn't mean without them,we can't play a good badminton.What happend to all the badminton legends before?Back in those days,no techs r available in their racket.
    Last edited by Smichz; 01-03-2008 at 10:06 PM.

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smichz View Post
    If u're a beginner..try ur best to buy a cheap racket.That way u can play safer.U don't have to cry after clashes u've made.This way u can understand how good is a high-end racket in the future,after u have one.Besides,it looks better that way.Don't try to be look like a pro but play like a crap.U don't want ppl to say anything like that to u.

    If u're good..try ur best to buy a good decent racket.This way,the racket will help u show ur best performance.I've personally seen or experienced how much ppl like to know about a good player.Ppl wanna know every single thing about them.What racket they use,what shoes,what bag,etc.

    If u think all the fakes n copy were terribly made,u're wrong..maybe it's because of what happend in ur country,where fakes r all cheap ends.Like i said before,fakes in china,appears to have their own low n high ends.Well,we can't compare them to yy's high end rackets,for what they cost..but these things r sometimes worthed for what they cost.

    Internal t-joints,nano,elastic-ti,TI,armor,woven,etc..r just some bunch of new techs that helps player more n more.Doesn't mean without them,we can't play a good badminton.What happend to all the badminton legends before?Back in those days,no techs r available in their racket.

    You are missing the point here. If Yonex high end is out of your budget range, you can purchase from a cheaper but reputable non-Yonex brand. Purchase fake is illegal to begin with.

    Tell me if a manufacture have fully confidence in their lines of products (in a consistent basis), why can't they simply introduce their own legit brand? Why they need to put on some fake YY logo to make a sell?

    We are not here to judge whether YY has the best racket or not, as it's very much personal preference. We are here to say, manufacture, sell and purchase fake is simply illegal to begin with. You can't say because you don't have enough savings, then you are ok to rob a bank, right?

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athelete1234 View Post
    We cant. But the majority of people who have played with fakes have found them to be terribly made racquets, and nothing like the real thing. The only thing anybody can say is , the fake is not the same as a the real. Does the fake AT700 have the same shaft flex and balance point, as well as the vibration dampening and feel as the real one? Does it even have the same paint job? If you want a racquet where you know what the quality is, go for the real AT700 and pay your $$$. If you want a fake and think you get a good racquets, pay $10-$100 US for either a garbage racquet, or an okay fake. Either way, you're not getting an AT700, so you have no idea what kind of racquet you got.

    As for the effects of your game when using a fake? Most dont' have the high modulus graphite in the frame or shaft, and are flexy because of this material defect. As well, the kind of design which is created by Yonex warrants the need for a built in T-joint; which fakes do not have. I've seen pictures of fake racquets with the head completely seperated from the head, because the T-joint did not hold together. And as for quality? The process of creating racquets is an expensive one to create good quality equipment. You think fakers really care? I've seen an intermediate who had a fake NS8000 and it snapped from a frameshot. Why? No quality controls; your racquet may be as durable as a steel racquet, or as fragile as a glass plate. So what am I trying to say from all of this? Dont' get fakes; it's not worth it; buy a cheap Yonex, SOTX, Gosen, etc.
    My 2 cents/
    Read the above stuff. BTW, no fakes produced here; all of them were purchased around asia.


    If you bring up the old days, I'm betting that an old cab 8 or Cab 9 or Cab 20 would last longer than a fake today. I'm also betting that those "old school racquets" would be better than a fake today. Like I said, fakes are made to sell and make $$$$ the cheap way. Real racquets are made for quality and profit.

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    To Smichz,
    Please do not mix a clone/copy together with a fake. Clones and copies are made by a real name brand that stand behind their product. If the a Apec model XX is good for you, you know you can get a same performance from that Apac model XX next time when you buy one. A good fake is usually a factory reject from OEM and some guy just buy them off the OEM and paint it like a high end YY. Do you want to pay $40 for a reject while you can buy a good copy for $40 from a good brand clone? A reject can have diffent problems. A good one can be just off the spec (too heavy or too light). A bad one can be crack on the frame or shaft. You can not tell since it is covered by the paint.
    What is illegal is illegal. Just because goverment is corrupt or police does not care, it does not make it morally right. The truth is, buying a fake does not hurt YY pocket too much. However, it is the reputation and consumer they want to protect.

  12. #29
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    Well..i guess the terms are preety different here n there then.Here,ppl just play around with any racket.Sometimes,when there are raids n stuff,it's gone.But soon after that,it comes back again.

    Hehe..this kind of thing appeared for many times in BC already.I guess i've said enough bout this.Not to encourage,but to some ppl in some countries,buying fake yy is an alternative,esp if it's about the brand recognizing n the price.That's the reason why fakes sells well.

    As in some ppl's mind,it's ok if i cant play,but at least i have to look good.Hehe..esp if it's a cheap one.Ppl would've said..oh,he got the new NS9000X.Or,wow..he got a new SHB-100LTD.LOL..

    As for my own experience in buying fake racket,i just bought them because they're yonex,and they looks good.One more..It's cheap!That's far before i got involved in BC n learned lots of thing from it,like 4 years ago.I don't even know what model it is.All i choose is from the colour.Because all i know about badminton racket is YY.I never really know any other brands before.I don't even know whether they're real or not.I also never knew that a high end yonex can cost more than 150USD.All i know that a badminton racket is supposed to be a cheap thing.So i mistakenly thought mine was real at first.LOL..So,that is my explanation about the "alternative".The other poor thing was that most of my friends in beijing,even though they good in playing,they still have a less knowledge about rackets.All we care is to play.I believe there is more out there.

    Well..those of u who wants to avoid buying fake stuffs..u guys better be smarter this time.Don't say even after u join BC,u still don't know what kind of racket is genuine n which is not.U dont say a 150USD yonex nano X-2, is genuine,because it's expensive.Or a 50 USD AT700 is a great deal.Haha..u get what i mean.
    Last edited by Smichz; 01-04-2008 at 11:14 AM.

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athelete1234 View Post
    Read the above stuff. BTW, no fakes produced here; all of them were purchased around asia.


    If you bring up the old days, I'm betting that an old cab 8 or Cab 9 or Cab 20 would last longer than a fake today. I'm also betting that those "old school racquets" would be better than a fake today. Like I said, fakes are made to sell and make $$$$ the cheap way. Real racquets are made for quality and profit.
    Sure man..everything cheap is coming from asia.From centuries ago,remains unchanged...cos everything coming from the west r more expensive.

    Hehe..i'm talking about techs n stuff that ppl talks about.Correct,oldies racket like cab 8,9,20 r those who got no modern tech in it,but still considered to be the best racket of all time.So,is it the modern techs,like nano,armor,woven,TI,etc or something else that is required to build a great racket?Think again..even if u talk about those modern techs to mr.yoneyama 20 years ago,he'll think u're crazy.But still,without those modern techs,yonex have made some rackets that lasts throughout the badminton history,n some even still reproduced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smichz View Post
    Sure man..everything cheap is coming from asia.From centuries ago,remains unchanged...cos everything coming from the west r more expensive.

    Hehe..i'm talking about techs n stuff that ppl talks about.Correct,oldies racket like cab 8,9,20 r those who got no modern tech in it,but still considered to be the best racket of all time.So,is it the modern techs,like nano,armor,woven,TI,etc or something else that is required to build a great racket?Think again..even if u talk about those modern techs to mr.yoneyama 20 years ago,he'll think u're crazy.But still,without those modern techs,yonex have made some rackets that lasts throughout the badminton history,n some even still reproduced.
    No wai... China makes flat screen Tvs, Japan makes real racquets, etc.

    Look at it this way. Take your Cab 20. It's got regular graphite, and a t joint. That's it. Now take a look at your fake. It's got graphite, and no t joint, but that's about it. But if you look at the quality of construction, Cab20 is way better. Why? Because YY is spending money on making quality designs for their racquets. YY fake is selling for same price as YY real in some places. But a $70 YY fake armortec isn't as good as a real $70 YY cab 20. Fakes dont try to make great racquets; otherwise they'd have their own company and rolling in the legit cash. Even YY low end racquets which are the same price as expensive fakes are better than fakes. Why? Yonex makes tries to make their racquets good; that's how they got their reputation as #1 in Badminton equipment. And fakers? They just want a quick buck as easy as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athelete1234 View Post
    No wai... China makes flat screen Tvs, Japan makes real racquets, etc.

    Look at it this way. Take your Cab 20. It's got regular graphite, and a t joint. That's it. Now take a look at your fake. It's got graphite, and no t joint, but that's about it. But if you look at the quality of construction, Cab20 is way better. Why? Because YY is spending money on making quality designs for their racquets. YY fake is selling for same price as YY real in some places. But a $70 YY fake armortec isn't as good as a real $70 YY cab 20. Fakes dont try to make great racquets; otherwise they'd have their own company and rolling in the legit cash. Even YY low end racquets which are the same price as expensive fakes are better than fakes. Why? Yonex makes tries to make their racquets good; that's how they got their reputation as #1 in Badminton equipment. And fakers? They just want a quick buck as easy as possible.
    I think u got it wrong.No way i am comparing those legends to the fakes!Hahaha..not worthed at all.All i meant was between genuine to genuine rackets,modern techs doesn't really needed to make any particular racket became the best.In fact,sometimes on some,they're not even necessary.

    Fakes r absolutely stands no chance to be compared to the genuine in terms of playability n quality!Fakes r fakes..they're still exist mainly because they're still became the alternative to some ppl.They look good,considerately cheap,average playability.That's the reason ppl still buying fakes.Esp beginners.Where there's demands,there's supply.

    While genuines,they still exists mainly because their product is indeed good.Even though they're more expensive,but they're worthed.Their frame can hold a high tension.U need a racket with a strong frame if u're good in badminton.They got the real thing,ex:ti,nano,etc..while fakes dont.That's why i said,if u're good(intermediate,advanced,pro),buy one decent genuine racket,cos that's what u need.
    Last edited by Smichz; 01-05-2008 at 02:58 AM.

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    As long as we agree that in no way are fakes good alternatives to genuine racquets, I think we're on the same page.

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    Default Asia's relationship with Cheap...

    Quote Originally Posted by Athelete1234 View Post
    If you bring up the old days, I'm betting that an old cab 8 or Cab 9 or Cab 20 would last longer than a fake today.
    I believe the good old Cab 8/9/20 will outlast most modern day rackets from Yonex. Incidentally, I bought a "new" Cab8 not so long back just for fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smichz View Post
    Sure man..everything cheap is coming from asia.From centuries ago,remains unchanged...cos everything coming from the west r more expensive.
    Hehe... May you be reminded that the top end Yonex'es are made in Asia (Japan).

    ------
    I do not think anyone is on different page to expect fakes to outperform the real rackets. I personally will never knowingly pick up a YY labeled racket not from Yonex.

    I will brand my particular APACS as a fake since I am certain it does not have most of the stuff it claims to have. The graphics stating all those nano-whatever but the price does not reflect it. IOW, it's not faking identity but it's faking technology. APACS does make some very nice rackets of their own designs like the "visible hollow" series and another series made with 40/50T ultra high-modulus graphite and they have a price to match.

    The question for me remained as "How much does those features really help?". I do not play at such a high level that the racket technology matters that much. At the end, I tend to look at rackets as rackets, regardless of brand, and will buy only if the price is right.

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  3. Fake Rackets?
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    : 04-29-2005, 10:29 AM
  4. Has anybody here ever played with Ashway rackets?
    By MYSRH in forum Badminton Rackets / Equipment
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    : 12-08-2001, 11:06 PM
  5. Has anybody here ever played with Ashway rackets?
    By MYSRH in forum Badminton Rackets / Equipment
    Replies: 0
    : 12-08-2001, 03:27 PM

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