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  1. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by indra View Post
    The more pressure the Malaysian pairs receive from their coaches, media, fans, and public, the better it will be for Ina pairs...because usually the Malaysian pairs do not perform well when they are under pressure.

    Neither does INA players perform when they are under pressure (e.g. it happened to Markis-Kido, Taufik) - in fact it applies to everyone.

    Who can really say he is not affected by any sort of pressure ? Pressure can can play havoc on your mind, sometimes it helps you to perform better but most times it affects our thinking, which then degrades our performance.

    But let me say that as we get more pressure, we also learn how to handle the pressure. Experience, hence, comes from handling the pressure. One can say KKK-TBH have learned a lot from the past, and definitely, they are no longer the novices they were. So I would not discount them for the Olympics gold by the fact that they would have gained from all 'these pressures' they went through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    Easier said than done IMHO. Look at Lin Dan. He crumbled under intense pressure in the Olympics 2004, World Championships 2005, and Asian Games 2006. He also admitted that the pressure got in to him which was partly the cause of his defeat too.
    OG04, LD was young and ranked #1, and I am with you on LD shock defeat. But I am not too sure you can say LD crumbled under pressure in WC05 (I was watching live in Anaheim and I was surprised and disappointed with the easiness that TH defeated LD as I was anticipating a great match) and in AG06, sure great player wants the gold but being runner-up and losing to TH who was in great form at that time is not too shabby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    But like that how to be champion? How to win that Olympic gold in Beijing?? Want to be a champion and win that Olympic gold sure have to face up to pressure and thrive on it.

    In Beijing, we cannot just empty out the entire stadium, change the umpires and line judges to Malaysians whenever Malaysia shuttlers take to the court, right???
    I am with you when player/players are ranked at the top, expectations to win comes with the territory, one cannot have it both ways i.e. get paid and yet not expected to win. But I do notice that LCW plays better when he is the underdog to win. And talking about pressure in OG08, the one player with the most pressure to win is LD and nobody else comes even close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    OG04, LD was young and ranked #1, and I am with you on LD shock defeat. But I am not too sure you can say LD crumbled under pressure in WC05 (I was watching live in Anaheim and I was surprised and disappointed with the easiness that TH defeated LD as I was anticipating a great match) and in AG06, sure great player wants the gold but being runner-up and losing to TH who was in great form at that time is not too shabby.
    Err...Taufik Hidayat has lost to Lin Dan in the two previous group matches in Asian Games 2006. It was the other way round....it was shocking that Lin Dan lost the Gold Medal Individual Event match

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    From the KLRC players, Lee TS, Sairol, Roslin, CCE/KLRC partner, Joanne Quay, Lim Pek Siah - in terms of pressure, less. Other than LTS,they dont shine either - other than age factor,
    Hafiz is dubbed yo-yo King here, tak kuasa want to waste some more energy talking about him. Think about CCE/CCM re-partnering again better.

    Yes, yes, the rewarding part. That was 15 years ago. Coach was different, management was different (though not necessary better)
    Current Rewards scheme, some countries have surpassed us. Currently, Msia's rewards for OG gold = RM160K, far less than Spore, Korea (it was reported in the newspapers). RM160K want to buy new teres house also not enuf. Spore is S$1 million.
    SEA Games reward payment, Indonesia even higher than Singapore after exchange rates(read the SEA Games thread).

    Back to KKK/TBH, in this aspect, Rexy wouldnt let them become big headed to avoid any form of free falling, whether from the sky or mountain
    Firstly, I like your creativity in the cut and paste department. No punt intended. Just that I need to put on my rayban to read your posting.

    Hey Ms, no prob with me if you loyar buruk. Its a free world, go ahead. Doesnt mean that I will follow suit, right?

    Yes, my comments about KKK/TBH have always been straight forward. I see them as flash in the pan. Yes, they have won the All England, AG gold etc etc but I see tendencies of showboating and big headedness in KKK, especially. Believe Rexy have taken KKK to task a couple of times on these issues. They fell apart in last year WC in KL and I am predicting that they will fall apart again in Beijing this year. And I stand corrected.

    But KKK/TBH apart, I think highly of WMC because I like her dedication and fighting spirit. Yes, she may not win often... infact it is very rare she will win a tournament, but I like her work rate. You may refer to some of my postings on WMC.

    As for Malaysian equesterian, if you say they are excelling because there are no expectations and pressure, how come we are not making waves in the world when it comes to equestrian??

    For sailing, there is no pressure but how come we are nowhere in the world?? Expensive sport? I dont buy your argument about the government not willing to support this sport. Fyi, Malaysia is a rich country. We are a petroleum exporting nation and Petronas makes RM80billion/year. If we can spend RM100 million to buy a ticket off the Russians for a space trip what is providing a few RM millions to the sport??? The question is do we have world class sailors?? Do note : world class not SEA games class type of sailors. There is a big difference.

    And with regards to your "criteria are fulfilled- have the skills, talent,work hard." Let me assure you our footballers are just as skillful and talented. And they do work hard. The difference is the mentality. You can have the best skills, talent and train hard but if you have a poor mentality, it wont take you nowhere. Other than having the right mentality, skills, talent and working hard ... we also must have the right set up to hone and develop talent. If you put monkeys to administer our sports associations , at best you will get a zoo.

    In football for example, there is no reason for Malaysia to not do well. We have good stadiums and technically gifted players. But we need to address the mentality and FAM set up.

    On your "Tennis : are we any good in tennis in the 1st place, skill wise? <Shrug>" .... before you ask this question, have you look at the development of tennis in Malaysia?

    So, your conclusion about Indonesians not having high expectations of their shuttlers are based on feedback you read in this forum and some Indonesian friends of yours??

    Whether Hafiz is dubbed yo-yo king or not is irrelevant if based on your less pressure , better performance argument. The lad is not expected to win, and thus no pressure on him to deliver. But where is HAfiz today??? How come with less pressure, he is still delivering a zero?

    Pertaining to the reward system, are you saying that if we put up a prize of say USD1 million, our shuttlers will bring back that elusive OG gold?? Money can buy success??? Hmmm ... I wonder whether Denmark splashed out big time when Paul Erik Hoyer Larsen took that Olympic gold in 1994??
    Last edited by Pemuda; 01-04-2008 at 02:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    Easier said than done IMHO. Look at Lin Dan. He crumbled under intense pressure in the Olympics 2004, World Championships 2005, and Asian Games 2006. He also admitted that the pressure got in to him which was partly the cause of his defeat too.
    My dear friend,

    Lin Dan won 2 WCs and 22 World Grand Prix titles. For a 25 year old lad, it would be a fair statement to say he has been consistent.

    You mentioned WC 2005, but you forgot about WC 2006 & 2007. How many shuttlers out there have won the WC back to back??? And mind you this is the WC we are talking about, not the Phillippines Open ok?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    Lin Dan won 2 WCs and 22 World Grand Prix titles. For a 25 year old lad, it would be a fair statement to say he has been consistent.

    You mentioned WC 2005, but you forgot about WC 2006 & 2007. How many shuttlers out there have won the WC back to back??? And mind you this is the WC we are talking about, not the Phillippines Open ok?
    But u can't deny that pressure got to him in Asian Games Final 2006, when he HAS already WON the AE and WC (September 2006) and demolished Taufik Hidayat twice in one week Yet, Taufik prevailed in the third and possibly the one that ppl would think about

  8. #42
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    Hi guys, I think we moving off track a bit

  9. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    Err...Taufik Hidayat has lost to Lin Dan in the two previous group matches in Asian Games 2006. It was the other way round....it was shocking that Lin Dan lost the Gold Medal Individual Event match
    Thanks for pointing out but I meant the MS gold which LD lost to TH.

  10. #44
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    Default Off topic..and on topic-Adding another 5 sen rupiahs..

    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    Easier said than done IMHO. Look at Lin Dan. He crumbled under intense pressure in the Olympics 2004, World Championships 2005, and Asian Games 2006. He also admitted that the pressure got in to him which was partly the cause of his defeat too.
    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    OG04, LD was young and ranked #1, and I am with you on LD shock defeat. But I am not too sure you can say LD crumbled under pressure in WC05 (I was watching live in Anaheim and I was surprised and disappointed with the easiness that TH defeated LD as I was anticipating a great match) and in AG06, sure great player wants the gold but being runner-up and losing to TH who was in great form at that time is not too shabby.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    My dear friend,

    Lin Dan won 2 WCs and 22 World Grand Prix titles. For a 25 year old lad, it would be a fair statement to say he has been consistent.

    You mentioned WC 2005, but you forgot about WC 2006 & 2007. How many shuttlers out there have won the WC back to back??? And mind you this is the WC we are talking about, not the Phillippines Open ok?
    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    But u can't deny that pressure got to him in Asian Games Final 2006, when he HAS already WON the AE and WC (September 2006) and demolished Taufik Hidayat twice in one week Yet, Taufik prevailed in the third and possibly the one that ppl would think about
    ...IMO, if comparing the 3 scenarios, i would say the 2004 OG (in Athens) could be considered as the one where LD crumbled under "pressure". But even then, looking back @ the 2004 OG, some would say it was more of LD's inexperience or perhaps unpreparedness, more so than being pressured, that cost him the early exit. In 2005 WC, as i watched him play in the Final, i saw mostly an exhausted LD, rather than a "pressured" or "nervous" LD, playing against an in-form, motivated & fresh Taufik. As for the 2006 AG Final, for some reason LD just wasn't able to control the game/seemed not in the game until the 2nd half of the 2nd set. Also from my recollection and if i'm not mistaken, LD played 1 extra match during the whole AG tourney, in comparison to Taufik (which if i'm not mistaken only played 5 matches). But i feel fatigue was probably not a major factor in that match as LD was close to forcing a rubber set also; he could simply didn't play up to his standard, in other words he possibly didn't take the match seriously until later in the 2nd set(or perhaps it was Taufik who took the Final match seriously).
    Pressure for LD?? If anything, like X Ball wrote in the previous page, i feel Taufik would also feel the same type of "pressure" as LD in those 3 meetings. What with the fact that the country of INA was probably counting on him to deliver a medal, if not a Gold medal. If that wasn't pressure, wait til this yr, where basically the whole INA will be counting on him, again, to deliver a Gold medal.
    *Btw, i don't know if anyone noticed or not and correct me if i'm wrong, but looking at their head to head meetings, esp. in the Finals, Taufik has only lost once to LinDan (only lost was in 2006 Japan Open).
    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    Err...Taufik Hidayat has lost to Lin Dan in the two previous group matches in Asian Games 2006. It was the other way round....it was shocking that Lin Dan lost the Gold Medal Individual Event match
    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    Thanks for pointing out but I meant the MS gold which LD lost to TH.
    ..hmm, i think badMania mentioned it in the last sentence of his post (in bold)..
    Quote Originally Posted by X Ball View Post
    But let me say that as we get more pressure, we also learn how to handle the pressure. Experience, hence, comes from handling the pressure. One can say KKK-TBH have learned a lot from the past, and definitely, they are no longer the novices they were. So I would not discount them for the Olympics gold by the fact that they would have gained from all 'these pressures' they went through.
    Back on topic:
    ..true..
    ..But after winning the 2006 AG, M'sian, All England & Swiss Opens, i don't think pressure was the factor in KKK's & TBH's struggle in the 2nd half of last yr. IMO, their lack of focus and attitude which somehow played important factors in their struggle.
    Last edited by ctjcad; 01-04-2008 at 04:39 PM.

  11. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    But u can't deny that pressure got to him in Asian Games Final 2006, when he HAS already WON the AE and WC (September 2006) and demolished Taufik Hidayat twice in one week Yet, Taufik prevailed in the third and possibly the one that ppl would think about
    For a lad who has 22 World Grand Prix and 2 WC titles nicely tucked away in his cabinet, common sense will tell me that it was not pressure that caused LD to fail in the men's individual event in the last AG. I would put it down to no form than too much pressure.

    Have a nice day.

  12. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    Back on topic:
    ..true..
    ..But after winning the 2006 AG, M'sian, All England & Swiss Opens, i don't think pressure was the factor in KKK's & TBH's struggle in the 2nd half of last yr. IMO, their lack of focus and attitude which somehow played important factors in their struggle.
    Spot on!!!

    KKK/TBH after taking the AG gold and AE, suddenly were showered with praises, attention and were put on the usual Malaysia Boleh bandwagon. It got to their heads, Rexy was mad as he noticed a change in their training etc etc.

    Like Hafiz, this is the typical Malaysian disease. Win one or some major titles, they go on a high and then they usually fall apart. The mentality of our sportspeople is weak. Once they win something big, they turn into some big time charlie. And coupled with our ever wishful thinking fans who never fail to molly cuddle whenever they fall apart by taking out that broken down violin and playing the usual "they are still young", "can try again next time", "they won AE and AG gold what" .... in the end what we will have is .... come Beijing, we will watch either the chinese, indonesian or even the Danish national athem being played.
    Last edited by Pemuda; 01-04-2008 at 07:25 PM.

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    Cracks Whip? or started to find himself a better excuses / reason to step down after the Olympic if none of the MAS pair able to deliver a single medal..
    Let the result speak. Rexy post in BAM is a HIGH PERFORMANCE COACH, NOT A HIGH PROFILE COACH

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    Quote Originally Posted by samuel882 View Post
    Cracks Whip? or started to find himself a better excuses / reason to step down after the Olympic if none of the MAS pair able to deliver a single medal..
    Let the result speak. Rexy post in BAM is a HIGH PERFORMANCE COACH, NOT A HIGH PROFILE COACH
    Yes!!! If Malaysia fails to land that Olympic gold, hang the coach!! Its the coach's fault, never the shuttlers.

    Just like LCW falling apart in the WC in KL, it was Yap Kim Hock's fault. Hang Yap Kim Hock for sitting too near the court. Pressure la.

    Malaysia Boleh.

  15. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    Yes!!! If Malaysia fails to land that Olympic gold, hang the coach!! Its the coach's fault, never the shuttlers.

    Just like LCW falling apart in the WC in KL, it was Yap Kim Hock's fault. Hang Yap Kim Hock for sitting too near the court. Pressure la.

    Malaysia Boleh.
    kekkekekekekekkekekekekekkekekekekekeke!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    Yes!!! If Malaysia fails to land that Olympic gold, hang the coach!! Its the coach's fault, never the shuttlers.

    Just like LCW falling apart in the WC in KL, it was Yap Kim Hock's fault. Hang Yap Kim Hock for sitting too near the court. Pressure la.

    Malaysia Boleh.
    this post is really sarcastic n annoying.
    the issue of lcw's statement is over.he apologised.the statement is inappropriate.i hope we can learn to forgive lcw.

    i promised to stay out of this.but who would able to read this sarcastic statement?

    new year of 2008.BAM,coaches,players are getting more matured.why cant the fans?

  17. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    Firstly, I like your creativity in the cut and paste department. No punt intended. Just that I need to put on my rayban to read your posting.

    1) Hey Ms, no prob with me if you loyar buruk. Its a free world, go ahead. Doesnt mean that I will follow suit, right?

    2) Yes, my comments about KKK/TBH have always been straight forward. I see them as flash in the pan. Yes, they have won the All England, AG gold etc etc but I see tendencies of showboating and big headedness in KKK, especially. Believe Rexy have taken KKK to task a couple of times on these issues. They fell apart in last year WC in KL and I am predicting that they will fall apart again in Beijing this year. And I stand corrected.

    But KKK/TBH apart, I think highly of WMC because I like her dedication and fighting spirit. Yes, she may not win often... infact it is very rare she will win a tournament, but I like her work rate. You may refer to some of my postings on WMC.

    3) As for Malaysian equesterian, if you say they are excelling because there are no expectations and pressure, how come we are not making waves in the world when it comes to equestrian??

    3) For sailing, there is no pressure but how come we are nowhere in the world?? Expensive sport? I dont buy your argument about the government not willing to support this sport. Fyi, Malaysia is a rich country. We are a petroleum exporting nation and Petronas makes RM80billion/year. If we can spend RM100 million to buy a ticket off the Russians for a space trip what is providing a few RM millions to the sport??? The question is do we have world class sailors?? Do note : world class not SEA games class type of sailors. There is a big difference.

    3) And with regards to your "criteria are fulfilled- have the skills, talent,work hard." Let me assure you our footballers are just as skillful and talented. And they do work hard. The difference is the mentality. You can have the best skills, talent and train hard but if you have a poor mentality, it wont take you nowhere. Other than having the right mentality, skills, talent and working hard ... we also must have the right set up to hone and develop talent. If you put monkeys to administer our sports associations , at best you will get a zoo.

    3) In football for example, there is no reason for Malaysia to not do well. We have good stadiums and technically gifted players. But we need to address the mentality and FAM set up.

    3) On your "Tennis : are we any good in tennis in the 1st place, skill wise? <Shrug>" .... before you ask this question, have you look at the development of tennis in Malaysia?

    So, your conclusion about Indonesians not having high expectations of their shuttlers are based on feedback you read in this forum and some Indonesian friends of yours??

    4) Whether Hafiz is dubbed yo-yo king or not is irrelevant if based on your less pressure , better performance argument. The lad is not expected to win, and thus no pressure on him to deliver. But where is HAfiz today??? How come with less pressure, he is still delivering a zero?

    5) Pertaining to the reward system, are you saying that if we put up a prize of say USD1 million, our shuttlers will bring back that elusive OG gold?? Money can buy success??? Hmmm ... I wonder whether Denmark splashed out big time when Paul Erik Hoyer Larsen took that Olympic gold in 1994??
    Whoops, my reply got deleted, stick to badminton then.

    1) I meant I loyar buruk, you dont react. But you didnt get it & reacted, took the bait.

    2) On KKK/TBH, yeah, yeah, you already repeated that many times.
    a) You would read the Utusan Msia article, the intv with Rexy abt "pressure" Rexy himself was OG champ, he would know better - he is their coach for 2 years ++, he would know them better too.
    Whether he's saying that to cover himself in case of failure or to protect them(as some BCer suggests), up to individual to decide

    b) When I talk about pressure, mostly I'm thinking of TBH - it's very, very obvious it effects TBH, he has said so numerous times. + can see it in his face when he plays.
    TBH is now 2nd youngest member of Msia MD team (youngest is TWee Kiong, currently replacing CCM to partner Hoon).

    He doesnt see all this attention as 'wah, I very great' but as 'Aiyooo, so much hope, very tension lah'. But, but, they are learning to cope with it, hopefully they can handle it come OG time.

    In public, Rexy is harder on KKK, KKK being more senior & I think cos Rexy thinks KKK can handle it. TBH - if use the hard hitting style, he will crumble.

    The pressure issue wise - earlier post I already gave example on Fu/Cai in 2004 OG. They flopped in their 1st OG 2004, they themselves said it's due to "still young, lack of maturity to handle it." And these are China players, supposed to have better mental strength than Msia players. China players have also won numerous major events.

    I only mention MD example cos KKK/TBH are MD. And in the OG prediction thead, I also dont predict KKK/TBH to win gold in 2008 due to inexperience & lack of maturity - it's their 1st OG, just look at what happened to LD, Fu/Cai in 2004.

    And the other factors have been covered the other BCers.

    3) Sailing, equestrian, squash - just a short one, dont want to get deleted again. Read up the news reports yourself - squash dev funding got cut in 2008 - remember this is elit sports, one of the more succesful ones, also funding reduced. Sailing, an experienced 'sailor' got funding cut in 2007, he gave up the sport.

    3) Football - your fav sport, you know better. Tennis, dunno, I dont follow Msia tennis news, that's why I asked.

    4) Exactly, since Hafiz's not delivering, no point wasting time complaining abt him since he's under private club - unless you know Nusa Mahsuri's management & complain to them directly. I also listed KLRC players, they also less pressure, but they also not making waves, but KLRC still send them.

    5) Of course rewards doesnt guarantee gold, nobody can. But it's one of the indications of how much the government appreciate our althetics in comparision to other countries in the region.
    SEA Games also Indonesia willing to give so much reward, OG dont know how much they going to give.

    And yes, I know, you often bring up the "mentally weak" or "attitude" issue. Then again, how does our government appreciate the successful ones, the mentally stronger ones (monetary & non monetary) in comparision with other countries?
    Remember the Nicol David example.

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