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  1. #1
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Exclamation Different Badminton training systems used by different countries

    Greetings,

    Different Badminton training systems are used by different countries.

    We welcome comments on all the different systems used.

    Below, Li Mao commented on the Malaysian system used.

    ====== ====== start article ====== ======

    NST Online Sport
    14-January-2008

    Badminton: Li Mao slams BAM training policy
    By K.M. Boopathy

    FORMER national singles coach Li Mao has slammed the BA of Malaysia's (BAM) training attitude for hampering the nation from producing world class shuttlers.

    Li Mao said the complicated system the BAM adopts doesn't allow a junior player with potential based at the Bukit Jalil Sports School (BJSS), or a back-up shuttler in the 2010-2012 Project squad, to be drafted into the national senior squad, and this was one reason why he decided to quit BAM last January.

    The coach had made a request to BAM for some of the players with potential from BJSS and the 2010-2012 Project squad but was turned down.

    "I've never come across such a ridiculous system in any country where your best players are not allowed to train with the national senior squad. This is the main reason why I left," said Li Mao at the Putra Stadium in Bukit Jalil yesterday.

    "The idea is always to see the older players guiding the younger ones. This can only happen if the younger ones are allowed to spar with the seniors but it doesn't happen here.

    "BJSS players are allowed to train with the Project Squad under Rashid (Sidek) but I wasn't given the liberty to choose any. How can I produce more top class players like (Lee) Chong Wei.

    "In China, we can select any player with potential from anywhere. When I talk about Chong Wei, his titles come to my mind, but there is no other good memories.

    "I could not say this when I was still coaching here as it would have invited problems but I can talk about it now."

    Li Mao, who is now the singles coach with the South Korea squad, also said disunity among the singles and doubles players during his tenure in Malaysia also plagued the Malaysian game.

    Li Mao said the Koreans are united in training and tournaments but this spirit is missing among Malaysian players.

    "There is no unity. Singles players are on their own while the doubles players keep to themselves.

    "They are very individualistic. The victories of a player are never acknowledged and instead there are a lot of unhappy faces."

    BAM may be under the impression that this is Li Mao's way of getting back at them, but nonetheless, it should be looked into to see if the situation still exists with the national players.

    ====== ====== end article ====== ======

    Cheers... chris@ccc
    .

  2. #2
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Li Mao's comments were also reported by The Star Online (14-January-2008)

    .
    Li Mao's comments were also reported by The Star Online.

    ====== ====== start article ====== ======

    The Star Online
    14-January-2008

    Badminton: Li Mao reveals jealousy among singles and doubles camps
    By Rajes Paul

    KUALA LUMPUR: About a year ago, Chinese badminton coach Li Mao of China left Malaysia in a huff – leaving national number one Lee Chong Wei in a lurch.

    But yesterday, he broke his silence on the reason for his premature departure as the singles coach of the Malaysian team and took a swipe at the Badminton Association of Malaysia's (BAM) training and coaching system.

    Li Mao is currently here as the coach of the South Korean singles players for the Malaysian Open, which begins on Wednesday at the Putra Stadium in Bukit Jalil. Prior to that, he was with the Malaysian team for two years.

    He said that he could not stomach the lack of unity between the singles and doubles departments.

    “It was too complex to coach the Malaysian team at that time. I follow the South Korean team for overseas tournaments and all their players stand united. But I found that Malaysia's singles and doubles were competing against each other,” said Li Mao.

    “They did not support each other. If the singles does well, the doubles department is not happy and vice versa. It was not a condition that I wanted to work in anymore.”

    Li Mao was also sore that his wish to train the back-up players was turned down.

    “The system in Malaysia is unbelievable. Players from the BJSS (Bukit Jalil Sports School) get promoted into the back-up squad (under Rashid Sidek). But none of the back-up players came to me.

    “In China and South Korea, a chief coach is given the power to chose his back-up players but not here in Malaysia. The back-up is supposed to be the feeder to the national team but I do not get to chose them. What kind of system is this?

    “How can the back-up players improve if they do not train with the best players in the country. I had Chong Wei then and I wanted to produce more top players. But I did not have a pool to work with.”

    The Chinese, who takes a no-nonsense approach in training, said that Malaysia should make use of their senior players.

    “In China and South Korea, the old players stay on to bring up the youngsters. And I do not understand why the BAM let their senior players go just like that.”

    Li Mao said that Malaysia's badminton could be heading for a slide if they do not review the system.

    “I did not speak up on this when I was with the Malaysian team because I did not want to cause further problems. But when I could not play a part in improving the situation, I just left. Now, I am not worried about talking about this matter.”

    On his best memories in Malaysia, Li Mao said: “It was when Chong Wei was winning the titles (a total of five under his charge).”

    On the Korean team, Li Mao said that the target was the Beijing Olympics in August.

    “It does not matter if they do not win (at the Malaysian Open). We want to do well at the Olympics. Currently, our top men's singles player is Park Sung-hwan. He is young and has achieved good results,” he said.

    ====== ====== end article ====== ======
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 01-14-2008 at 04:46 PM.

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    all i can say LOLOL.

    it is very generous of li mao to give these advice to BAM for free. I have seen corporations pays millions $$ to experts to tell them what's wrong with their organization.

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    Millions of $'s?! That's a lot!

  5. #5
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up The best solution: For all of them to work together

    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post

    it is very generous of li mao to give these advice to BAM for free.

    .
    I think the Malaysian Press only wanted to know why Li Mao suddenly left Malaysia for South Korea 12 months ago. I am glad that Li Mao was honest to tell them how he felt about BAM.

    Different countries have different systems. I only wish I have a chance to ask Rexy regarding this matter too... comparing the Malaysian system with those used in Indonesia, England, etc...

    But we have one thing for certain... the administrators of sporting bodies should pay more attention to how the players and the coaches think or feel. Administrators are to serve the players and the coaches, but very often it is the players and coaches who are working for the administrators.

    IMHO, the best solution is for all of them to work together with equal say.
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    .

    Different countries have different systems. I only wish I have a chance to ask Rexy regarding this matter too... comparing the Malaysian system with those used in Indonesia, England, etc...

    But we have one thing for certain... the administrators of sporting bodies should pay more attention to how the players and the coaches think or feel. Administrators are to serve the players and the coaches, but very often it is the players and coaches who are working for the administrators.

    IMHO, the best solution is for all of them to work together with equal say.
    .
    Kind of you to put such a neutral title.

    1) a) Just to clarify - on the sparring with senior players part, after the dismal results at 2007 SEA Games, Pro 2010-2012 (back-up players) chief coach Rashid Sidek got his charges to spar with LCW & Hafiz 3 to 4 times a week.
    Before was once a week, but with more seniors, include Wong Choon Hann who trains under Wong Tat Meng.

    So, could be some misunderstanding between Rashid & Li Mao then. Or because the back-up players train same venue with Misbun's charges + he he Rashid is Misbun younger bro, sure help a bro.

    Rashid also gave Chan KB for Misbun to train cos Chan KB performance in BJSS not good, said to be discipline prob. 3 mths with Misbun improve a lot, sthing like ranking shot up from 150++ to inside 100 .
    Now 2nd best MS in Rashid's squad, after Tan CS.

    BUT, to be fair, Rashid did complain before about lack of sparring oppotunities with senior players for MS. The way Rashid sounded like the senior coaches didnt want to let the juniors spar with seniors, hmmmm, that's why I think got some inconsistency or conflict.

    MD - alll the while Rexy allow the juniors to spar with seniors, MD juniors benefit. It's up to senior coach. When Rexy agreed to come to Msia, BAM promised to give Rexy free rein in running the show.

    2) On senior squad coach given players, Arif Abd Latif (according to our Kak Nordiayu & 1 press report) this year is training under Misbun, after promoted to back-up squad.

    3) ON senior players should stay on to guide youngsters, some still leave to go to KLRC, some quit the sport.
    The recent good news would be CCM still spars with BAM players, which was what Rexy wanted, 'to guide the youngsters' part.

    The jealousy part, dunno, you gotta ask Ants. But now he's busy entertaining Japan team, busy man this 'semut'.

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    As expected, reply from BAM side in the form of Yap Kim Hock

    from NST :
    Kim Hock: System not flawed


    15 January, 2008

    NATIONAL chief coach Yap Kim Hock has brushed aside Li Mao's criticism of the Badminton Association of Malaysia's (BAM) system of training as nothing new. Li Mao, the former Malaysia singles coach, had criticised the system saying that a player with potential from the Bukit Jalil Sports School (BJSS) or the 2010-2012 Project squad was not allowed to train with the national senior squad.

    Kim Hock, while acknowledging Li Mao's outburst, said the co-operation among coaches from these three set-ups over the last two years has produced better results.

    The coach said that if the system was flawed, Tan Boon Heong and Hoon Thien How would not have been promoted from the Project Squad to the national senior squad in 2005, while players like Chan Kwong Beng and Lok Chong Chieh would not have had the opportunity to train with Lee Chong Wei and Hafiz Hashim under Misbun Sidek's guidance.

    "It is not a new problem and we have addressed it. After the failure to win medals in the Athens Olympics (in 2004), we came up with a different programme and any new programme will have its weaknesses," said Kim Hock.

    "We have rectified them now and this was only possible because the coaches started working together in order to improve the standard of the national team.

    "Rexy Mainaky has worked with junior coach Jeremy (Gan) and this brought about the beginning of the mixed doubles team. Although the members are junior players, they train with the men's doubles squad under Rexy.

    "Rashid (Sidek) requested Misbun's help to coach some of his players and the latter obliged, and Kwong Beng and Chong Chieh's improvement is because of this."

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    The Korean players are indeed very united in training and competition. When one of them is playing, most of the team-mates (regardless of whether singles or doubles players) will come down to support the player.

    For Malaysian or Indonesian players, u rarely see that kind of unity.

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    I am not surprised with Li Mao's statements. Any decent coach will find it hard with the Malaysian set up. Morten Frost have walked out in the past. And wont be long before we see Rexy packing his bags as well.

    I agree about the Koreans being very united and all. They are very single minded. It is no wonder that they have won the WCs/Olympics gold a couple of times.

  10. #10
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Arif is training under Misbun

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post

    2) On senior squad coach given players, Arif Abd Latif (according to our Kak Nordiayu & 1 press report) this year is training under Misbun, after promoted to back-up squad.

    3) ON senior players should stay on to guide youngsters, some still leave to go to KLRC, some quit the sport.

    The recent good news would be CCM still spars with BAM players, which was what Rexy wanted, 'to guide the youngsters' part.

    The jealousy part, dunno, you gotta ask Ants. But now he's busy entertaining Japan team, busy man this 'semut'.

    .
    It's great to hear that Arif is training under Misbun.

    Also wondering why so many players are leaving BAM to go to KLRC.

    Yes, Rexy should be happy to have CCM back.

    As usual, ants will not say much.
    .

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    Strange that there is no rebuttal from anyone in BAM about the poor relationships between the singles and doubles players. I think this area is more serious, if true, because without team spirit the heart is not there. I only hope this is not true. Maybe Ants can shed some light.

  12. #12
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Exclamation We are talking about their training only

    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post

    Strange that there is no rebuttal from anyone in BAM about the poor relationships between the singles and doubles players. I think this area is more serious, if true, because without team spirit the heart is not there. I only hope this is not true. Maybe Ants can shed some light.

    .
    No, we are talking about their training only.

    When the MAS Team was here in Melbourne for the Commonwealth Games 2006, I found that LCW was closest to KKK (other than WMC ).

    Rexy's relationship with YKH was excellent, as I could see when we had dinner together.

    However, Li Mao was always a loner... probably because of our language problem. But LCW did not have any problem with Li Mao in their communication... both speak Mandarin.

    CCM was as usual his quiet self. I found CTF and WCH were the friendliest of them all, having the best team spirit.
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Strange that there is no rebuttal from anyone in BAM about the poor relationships between the singles and doubles players. I think this area is more serious, if true, because without team spirit the heart is not there. I only hope this is not true. Maybe Ants can shed some light.
    There is, there is, the press bugged Rexy since he's the only foreign coach in senior squad, but as you know, today, MO start,BCers are either at the stadium or anxiously watching Livescore. Matches are on all day long.

    from the Star

    Rexy has no complaints on his working conditions

    KUALA LUMPUR: National doubles coach Rexy Mainaky has no problem working with anyone in the Malaysian coaching and training set-up.

    And the men's doubles players, led by Koo Kien Keat, echoed this.

    Rexy said yesterday that he did not want to discuss the motive of Li Mao in criticising the Badminton Association of Malaysia's (BAM) coaching and training system after leaving the set-up almost a year ago.

    He added that he was happy with the current training environment.

    “I have not gotten into problem. I do not foresee any difficulties in my working relationship with others in the team. I would prefer to work with the focus on getting the team ready for the Beijing Olympics,” said Rexy.
    Kien Keat said that the men's doubles players were a united team.

    “We have different group of players under different coaches in the BAM. The singles and doubles players train at different times. Of course, it looks like we are not always together but we are all friends,” he said.

    “The doubles players are like a family. We go out to celebrate victories and have our meals together. But the singles players have a different programme.”
    Kien Keat and partner Tan Boon Heong will get down to defend the Malaysian Open men's doubles title beginning tomorrow at the Putra Stadium.
    __________________________________________________ _____________
    and chris, congrats on getting one of my quiz asnwers correct. what prize you want if get all 3 correct ? for real one.
    Last edited by eaglehelang; 01-15-2008 at 06:38 AM.

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    Too late for me to edit earlier on.

    This year also World Junior XD Champs, Lim Khim Wah/Ng Hui Lin jump straight from BJSS (junior) to senior squad. They now train together under Rexy, with senior MD, WD - from press intv with Lim KW. They are aiming to make their way up the rankings to qualify for OG.

    And Chris, not surprised with language barrier when it comes to Rashid-Li Mao comunication.
    And yes, even I havent met them in person, on tv can see Yap KH & Rexy have good r/ship. 1st thing Rexy said when both Msia MD lost in 2006 Asia Games team event to Korea was : "I'm sorry to Kim Hock,Msians..."

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    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Speaking of language barrier...

    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    However, Li Mao was always a loner... probably because of our language problem. But LCW did not have any problem with Li Mao in their communication... both speak Mandarin.
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    And Chris, not surprised with language barrier when it comes to Rashid-Li Mao comunication.
    ..anyone wonders, if Li Mao was indeed having "language barrier", or it could be the bigger reason for his "uneasiness" while he was coaching in BAM, how in the world is he "communicating" to his current batch of trainees in the Korean National team???...Can his charges speak Mandarin, Cantonese or Hokkien to him??..Can Li Mao speak Korean back to them??...or thru translation??..

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..anyone wonders, if Li Mao was indeed having "language barrier", or it could be the bigger reason for his "uneasiness" while he was coaching in BAM, how in the world is he "communicating" to his current batch of trainees in the Korean National team???...Can his charges speak Mandarin, Cantonese or Hokkien to him??..Can Li Mao speak Korean back to them??...or thru translation??..
    1) Little bit of background - when Li Mao left Korea for Msia, he said the reason was language problem with Korea trainees.
    Since he was looking to get out of Msia, Korea would be logical place to go back to, they already know his capabilities.

    2) When Li Mao was in Msia, he taught Chinese players or those who can understand Chinese. That's why Malay or Indian players werent training with him, he taught in Chinese.
    They did used translator for communication with coaches and such.

    3) The culture : to be fair to Li Mao, in the article he sounded like he got lost in all the complex weaving of things or indirect hints although he's Asian. Or he didnt know how to be buddies with Rashid, Misbun or the non chinese coaches.

    Or he offended some of the feelings of the ppl in power, Li Mao is known for being very no nonsense - these datuks could have misterpreted Li Mao's passion as rudeness.

    Rexy knows how to be strict but diplomatic enuf to get message across to the ppl in power. Maybe due to Rexy's experience in England where they are more 'individualistic' - the England players said Rexy's style is more encouraging.

  17. #17
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default That's the whole point..

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    1) Little bit of background - when Li Mao left Korea for Msia, he said the reason was language problem with Korea trainees.
    Since he was looking to get out of Msia, Korea would be logical place to go back to, they already know his capabilities.

    2) When Li Mao was in Msia, he taught Chinese players or those who can understand Chinese. That's why Malay or Indian players werent training with him, he taught in Chinese.
    They did used translator for communication with coaches and such.
    ..if Li Mao was indeed having "language barrier" with his M'sian charges (some of whom can speak Mandarin/Cantonese w/him), imagine now with his Korean National team charges...Sure, he had acquired and know their capabilities prior, but communicating with them, shouldn't there a bit more difficulty conversing, in comparison to some of his M'sian charges??..
    So, is it really "language barrier/problem" or perhaps a "cultural/mindset/personality barrier/problem" between Li Mao and his previous employer(s)...Or maybe it's simply "Eyes no see and see no eyes"...
    Last edited by ctjcad; 01-16-2008 at 03:31 AM.

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