User Tag List

Page 9 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 LastLast
Results 137 to 153 of 220
  1. #137
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    1,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    It's like in 2010, some newbie asks abt this KO 2008 incident, comes here & reads the threads & sees line by line description of the sequence, he, he.
    If the newbie asks for the vid, we might have to wipe the dust off our disc/external harddrive too.

    As I've said, me thinks CO 2007 is more relevant since this thread is talking abt that .
    If newbie asks for vid, the one who brings up the MSF KO 08 incident to them will have to answer for it. If they read it in the old thread, I'm sure our BC "living dictionary" and detective ctjcad might be able to help with directions

  2. #138
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    12,016
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdwood View Post


    If the bad call at 21-21 was corrected, LD would have been at 22 to 21 LHI at the match point. Since LD won the next point, he would win the MS title in KO 08 by 23-21. There wouldn't any need to go to 23-22, LD went there because the bad call was not corrected, LM badly behaved, LD badly behaved and upset.
    Maybe you did not watch the match or the video clip about what happened at close 21-21 in MSF KO 08? How did you expect him to perform well after the incident? I thought that's what the linesmen and LM were doing to upset LD and help their losing player LHI

    pssst, Birdwood, if me not mistaken, Badmania was watching the whole Finals live on HK Cable tv. And Badmania is normally fair in his comments and checks his facts 1st. You could have misunderstood some of his statements, I understood Badmania's post different from you but let him explain it himself.

  3. #139
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    1,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    Like twobeer wrote: to serve for the match at 22-21 and win the point, will be different from to be at the receiving end and win it (which Lin Dan did to level the score).
    I wrote before to twobeer that everything is possible when playing baddy, the same to LD if he had got to the match point 22-21 LHI to serve. But I can't go around for endless speculation what would happen if that had happened. I only based my judgment on what had happened in the sequence of the score

    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    So, the facts were different too:
    Fact: Lin Dan got the point during Lee Hyun Il's serve.
    I don't know what this point was and can't comment on

    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    Can you guarantee that Lin Dan would have won the match if he was serving for the match at 22-21 (supposedly if the controversial line call was given to Lin Dan too)?
    I don't guarantee anything. LD did win the next point. We can sit here and argue all day about the possibility and probability, that would not change the fact: LD won the next point. So for MSF KO 08, LD would have won the title

    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    Note that these 2 were entirely different scenarios (not the same which you have assumed them to be). That's why twobeer said you extrapolated
    I am not to sure that I had extrapolated. I only looked at the scores and I'm closer to the true than any of you. At least I did not break any new ground in the blaming game for sure

  4. #140
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    18,460
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdwood View Post
    Again I would not go that far to blame a player for not finish the match as the cause of the problem. The confrontation was brought up in the first place by: bad line calls, dirty tricks by LM, and unresponsive umpire for the last bad call at 21-21 in MSF KO 08. Your argument in my opinion broke new ground in the BC forum
    Sigh...I hate to argue with ppl....and that's partly because I am not used to arguing and not that good in replying back

    Apparently, I am not the only one who had that thought:
    This one comes from chinabadminton.com at 22:16pm

    唉 林丹要是象第一局那样狠杀,就没啥争的了!
    "Ai....if only Lin Dan was as merciless as the first set...there will be nothing to argue for"

    21:4 看李矛还有啥说头? 裁判怎么去帮 李泫一 的忙?
    战术的改变 技术的失常 酿成的后果就是苦的。

    "At 21-4, see whether Li Mao has anything to say? How will the linejudge help Lee Hyun Il? The change in tactics and (drop in skill-level? better translation needed here) led to this bitter result!"

    Read also ye333 comment's (on bc as well as on chinabadminton.com) on the chronology of events. Lin Dan threw the racket at Li Mao first, before Li Mao reacted back. And who wouldn't react if someone threw a racket at you

    Tactics and psychological warfare are parts of sports. If you are football fan, then all these are common. Remember how Alex Ferguson winded up Kevin Keegan, such that that guy eventually crumbled under pressure? Manchester United won the League title that year, despite trailing 12 pts behind Newcastle.

    Read also some of the Chinese's comments about Lin Dan in chinabadminton.com, including those who witnessed the actions live in Seoul. I can quote for you some sentences here:

    "至于裁判,先说主裁吧,我认为还是公正的,起码比中国公开赛的主裁要公正的很多,好几次有争议的球都判给 了林丹,但是我并不是要说关键时候就一定要改判给李玄一,不是这样的。人不是神,谁会没有过错呢?裁判也会 出现过错啊。我们看看李玄一吧,当林丹觉得边裁误判的时候,向主裁申述时候的表情和态度,哪像一个高素质的 运动员呀?!看看李玄一,什么话都没有说,不会因为把球改判给林丹,而向主裁撒气。就算他撒气也行啊,毕竟 是人家的主场啊!边裁,确实是有不公正的地方,确实是的。但是边裁的判罚并没有严重的影响主裁啊!所以说裁 判的问题,比中国公开赛要做的好一些,我觉得!

    As for the umpire, I would think that he/she's pretty fair, at least better than those at the China Open 2007. Many controversial calls were given to Lin Dan. But, I am not implying that the umpire had to give that last controversial call to Lee Hyun Il. Man is not God, so, anyone can made mistake. Let's look at Lee Hyun Il. When Lin Dan thought the call made by the linejudge was not right, look at his expression when he "complained" about that to the umpire. Does he look like a high-quality sportsman? Now, look at Lee Hyun Il, he's just quiet, and did not utter any single words. He didn't complain or made a fuss even when the umpire overruled the earlier calls to Lin Dan's favor. Even if he did make a fuss, he had the right to do it since this was his homeground anyway! As for the linejudge, indeed, she was biased. However, her calls DID NOT HAVE A SERIOUS IMPACT on the umpire. So, in my humble opinion, I would think that the umpire had done a better job than those umpires at the China Open 2007.


    再说说李矛和林丹的争吵,我只想说“本是同根生,相煎何太急!”林丹太冲动,火气太爆,居然扔拍,我觉得目 标就是李矛,只不过扔错了方向罢了,呵呵~因此李矛说林丹没有素质也是应该的,我觉得。运动员最起码应该对 裁判,长者,前辈,双方的教练都应该尊重,你世界第一就了不起吗?要是没有前辈们为这些后辈铺路搭桥,哪有 林丹啊?李矛或多或少的都会影响着中国羽毛球队,即便他完全没有教过林丹。但是他是林丹的前辈,就应该尊重 。裁判是的判罚,就应该尊重!

    Now....let's take about the argument about Lin Dan and Li Mao. I just want to say "we are all from the same root, so, why should we argue and made the situation turned into a bad one!" Lin Dan was too emotional and hot-tempered to the extent that he even threw that racket, and I think his target was indeed Li Mao, it's just that he threw it in a wrong direction...hehe... So, it was right for Li Mao to say that Lin Lan lacked class and quality as a person. As a sportsman, we should have the basic respect towards the umpire and those ppl who are older than us, coaches of both sides. So what if you are the World No 1? If there were no ex-players who build the foundation, there will not be any Lin Dan. Even though Li Mao had not taught Lin Dan before, he's older than Lin Dan! And Lin Dan should respect him! An Umpire is an Umpire, so, he should be respected as well!

    As for "bad" line calls, most shuttlers would have expected that, especially if you are playing in Korea. You mention about the psychological effects on Lin Dan. What about Lee Hyun Il? What's his reaction when the umpire overrule those line-calls in favor of Lin Dan?

    The line calls affected both players...period...but it appeared that you totally discounted the effect on Lee Hyun Il as well. He was under pressure as well, especially at 22-23. He could just have lost that match there....but...he was composed and eventually won the last 3 points of the match

    Give that man a credit, instead of dwelling on and on about Li Mao's tactics and the controversial line calls.

    I think this will be the last post I make on this issue. Its time to move on.
    Last edited by badMania; 01-29-2008 at 09:04 AM.

  5. #141
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    26,770
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Exclamation Our life is frittered away by detail... Simplify, simplify.

    .
    Greetings,

    Just want to quote a well-known saying here in this thread... just to break up some of the arguments thus far.

    "Our life is frittered away by detail... Simplify, simplify".
    Henry David Thoreau, 1817-1862
    American essayist, poet and mystic

    .

  6. #142
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    18,460
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    pssst, Birdwood, if me not mistaken, Badmania was watching the whole Finals live on HK Cable tv. And Badmania is normally fair in his comments and checks his facts 1st. You could have misunderstood some of his statements, I understood Badmania's post different from you but let him explain it himself.
    Hahaha...thanks for your support I have stated my thoughts, so, no point to dwell on this topic anymore.

    Fact: Lin Dan did throw his racket. --> can anyone refute this?

  7. #143
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    1,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    pssst, Birdwood, if me not mistaken, Badmania was watching the whole Finals live on HK Cable tv. And Badmania is normally fair in his comments and checks his facts 1st. You could have misunderstood some of his statements, I understood Badmania's post different from you but let him explain it himself.
    Maybe he was fair before, but not after blaming LD for not finishing the match quick enough as the cause for all the trouble in MSF KO 08. Lost my respect right there, sorry to say that the least and an argument unheard of

    If that's true, why we need to improve baddy line calling system, conduct of players and coaches, conduct of court personnels and umpire, reform baddy tournamnets,...etc. We can just all blame players and let linesmen decide who win or lose

  8. #144
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    1,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    Hahaha...thanks for your support I have stated my thoughts, so, no point to dwell on this topic anymore.

    Fact: Lin Dan did throw his racket. --> can anyone refute this?
    I did not think that LD was right for what he did and I will say it again that LD needs to be punished for what he did so as LM. I would and will blame any player and any country for bring bad behavior to baddy competitions and bad name to the sports. But, I will only do so with facts, not with any strange notions

  9. #145
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    LuckyTown
    Posts
    777
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdwood View Post
    Did you count the effect of biased line calls on LD's psychology and performance even though they were corrected by umpire? and did you count the effect of LM's dirty tricks on LD's psychology and performance why LD could not close the game 3 Look like you're all for those things as normal in MSF KO 08
    Sorry, but after all the 21-21 incident, LD did manage to save the match point in favor of LHI and reverse the situation to get a match point to 23-22 which he did not convert. So your argument is flawed concerning LD's psychology following the incident. You will never know what happened

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdwood View Post
    If the bad call at 21-21 was corrected, LD would have been at 22 to 21 LHI at the match point. Since LD won the next point, he would win the MS title in KO 08 by 23-21. There wouldn't any need to go to 23-22, LD went there because the bad call was not corrected, LM badly behaved, LD badly behaved and upset. Maybe you did not watch the match or the video clip about what happened at close 21-21 in MSF KO 08? How did you expect him to perform well after the incident? I thought that's what the linesmen and LM were doing to upset LD and help their losing player LHI
    Again, your argument is flawed because no one will ever know what would happen if the line call was overruled. Just because LD won the next points after the incident doesn't mean he would have won those points in another situation (eg. where the call would have been overruled). Things would have been completely different, because Lin Dan would have served instead of Lee Hyun Il for example. What you are doing is pure speculation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Birdwood View Post
    You made me laugh and don't even want to respond to such a comment
    Me too, you make me laugh, but I do answer your comments

  10. #146
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    18,460
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    LOL.....things are going on round and round and round

    Look's like we will never reach a conclusion

  11. #147
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    18,460
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Loopy View Post
    Again, your argument is flawed because no one will ever know what would happen if the line call was overruled. Just because LD won the next points after the incident doesn't mean he would have won those points in another situation (eg. where the call would have been overruled). Things would have been completely different, because Lin Dan would have served instead of Lee Hyun Il for example. What you are doing is pure speculation.
    Spot on....this was what I explained just now. Too bad, my English is too poor to be understood

    Lin Dan won the point from Lee Hyun Il's serve (to make it 23-22), but, can he guarantee that he will make it 23-21 from his subsequent serve (if the linecall turned out to be overruled at 21-21 and his turn to serve at 22-21).

    Two different scenarios....but...I guess ppl just won't understand what we meant anyway

  12. #148
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    12,016
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdwood View Post
    Maybe he was fair before, but not after blaming LD for not finishing the match quick enough as the cause for all the trouble in MSF KO 08. Lost my respect right there, sorry to say that the least and an argument unheard of
    I understood his post different....

    LOL, you were not in the receiving end when it was CO 2007 - when LCW was said to be mentally weak, how to be champion like that, etc,etc. When he complained abt it in the press, critised as whining, among other things.
    No sympathy for LCW like what LD got in the press reports.

    And fans who pity/supported him were said to blindly supporting, finding excuses - granted LCW, knee injury & all, could have lost without all the bad line calls but maybe in 3 tight sets. No slaps in the back for getting runner-up in spite of knee injury, but focus was on "how could he let himself get upset with the line calls".
    Last edited by eaglehelang; 01-29-2008 at 09:50 AM.

  13. #149
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Beijing,Guilin,K.L & Jakarta
    Posts
    3,988
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Is it some sort of,korea helping other countries n represents them for revenging n make china to pay back for what have happend last year?=P

  14. #150
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    18,460
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    I understood his post different....
    Well, INA fans typically have the same mindset as MAS fans right....we are neighbours

    Just to show that how one post can have different impact on different ppl. "Ground-breaking" comments Never know that such a small comment from me can induce such a reaction

    On the other hand, after re-reading the posts, I think I might have conveyed the wrong message:

    Lin Dan swept over Lee Hyun Il 21-4 and could have won it in the second set. Yet, he missed those matchpoints. The same thing happened in the rubber-set, before all those controversies set in. If he won it at that time, we wouldn't have all this bouhaha.

    So, who was to be blamed for his loss, if not for Lin Dan himself He had the chances to seal up the match without any controversies and he failed to do that.

    (Note: I am not blaming the player's inability to win earlier as a cause for the eventual controversies happening latter, but, more for his eventual defeat I hope this will clear up the misunderstanding).

    Move on ppl.....
    Last edited by badMania; 01-29-2008 at 10:08 AM.

  15. #151
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    1,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Loopy View Post
    Sorry, but after all the 21-21 incident, LD did manage to save the match point in favor of LHI and reverse the situation to get a match point to 23-22 which he did not convert. So your argument is flawed concerning LD's psychology following the incident. You will never know what happened

    Again, your argument is flawed because no one will ever know what would happen if the line call was overruled. Just because LD won the next points after the incident doesn't mean he would have won those points in another situation (eg. where the call would have been overruled). Things would have been completely different, because Lin Dan would have served instead of Lee Hyun Il for example. What you are doing is pure speculation.
    I never said my argument was perfect. But it was closer to the truth than any of your arguments. No one can deny that LD won the point after the last bad call, which was not corrected by the umpire in MSF KO 08. As I said over and over, I don't like to speculate what would happen if this or that had happened. I only go by what's on the book

    I'm sure we can disagree on the outcome of MSF KO 08. We're all entitled to our opinions, that's what the forum is about

  16. #152
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    12,016
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    Well, INA fans typically have the same mindset as MAS fans right....we are neighbours

    Just to show that how one post can have different impact on different ppl. "Ground-breaking" comments Never know that such a small comment from me can induce such a reaction
    We can understand Malay mah. I understood what you meant but Loopy explained it better. Kah kah kah, 'ground-breaking' good mah, CNY coming. Break new ground in 2008 in inducing reactions, hmmmm.

  17. #153
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    1,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    I understood his post different....

    LOL, you were not in the receiving end when it was CO 2007 - when LCW was said to be mentally weak, how to be champion like that, etc,etc. When he complained abt it in the press, critised as whining, among other things.
    No sympathy for LCW like what LD got in the press reports.

    And fans who pity/supported him were said to blindly supporting, finding excuses - granted LCW, knee injury & all, could have lost without all the bad line calls but maybe in 3 tight sets. No slaps in the back for getting runner-up in spite of knee injury, but focus was on "how could he let himself get upset with the line calls".
    I would say again that LCW was given bad line calls by Chn linesmen in MSF CO 07. I was very angry at what happened and sympathized him for suffering the unfairness. In fact I admired LCW more for his manner, courage, and playing skills more than those of LD. Once, I even suggested LCW should be the would #1 baddy player without knowing how it was calculated from all previous years. But LCW being wronged in CO 07 does not mean LD should be mis-treated in MSF KO 08. Unless there is a fix to the line judging system, it's difficult removing bias from future SS competitions.

Page 9 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Impact Rackets
    By puggy in forum Racket Recommendation / Comparison
    Replies: 11
    : 05-15-2013, 10:43 AM
  2. FS: Impact N90 (SG)
    By zhikang in forum Buy & Sell - Read the rules sticky before you post
    Replies: 0
    : 02-09-2012, 10:39 AM
  3. IMPACT shuttlecock....
    By george@chongwei in forum Shuttlecock
    Replies: 1
    : 10-10-2007, 09:52 AM
  4. impact bws 99
    By zhafir92 in forum Badminton Rackets / Equipment
    Replies: 2
    : 08-25-2007, 08:46 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •