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  1. #1
    Regular Member leongwaipak's Avatar
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    Default Is the law of continuous play killing us?

    Happy Chinese New Year everybody!
    My first post so please be easy on me..

    I just want to see what people's opinions are about the law of continous play in badminton? I've heard of a friend of a friend who died a few years ago in Melbourne after having a heart attack in the changeroom after some extended competition play. I can't remember exactly but I think he had played 3 games and all went to 3 sets of 21 points rally system.
    He was apparently a pretty fit guy and regular competition player but maybe pushed it a little too hard on his last day?

    I only began thinking about this recently because I have been watching lots of sports on Chinese TV and saw a big difference between badminton and a few other sports which made me think that it's a bit unfair for us badminton players and our badminton pros.

    Let's compare.

    Table tennis professional comps have a towel break every 6 points. Although not a rest break still gives players a few extra seconds more than usual. But saying that, the average point in TT is only like a few seconds!!!
    Anyone got an average rally time for badminton?
    Table tennis players can even call a time out of one minute in each set!.

    Volleyball gets the "technical time out" when someone gets to 8 and 16 points before playing out to 25 points. But you have 6 players on each side so not everyone is using full energy all the time. You also have time outs in Volleyball too.

    Tennis players gets their rest breaks every change of ends but the time between points is so long. Admittedly tennis matches can last up to 3 hours but it's hardly continuous.

    I've been pretty unfit in recent years and have played to the point of passing out. I've started to recognise my limits and have slowed down these days but just wanted to see if anyone else has same experience or known of any similar issues?
    Are we pushing ourselves too hard for this game and pushing our professional badminton players to early retirement?
    I think volleyball has a good system of technical time outs so maybe the badminton authorities should think about? 25 points instead of 21 points to compensate?

    Opinions??

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    I'd say its not a good idea to slow down the game.
    Just because other sports do, doesnt mean its a good idea. most field games play at least 30 minutes non stop each side, and most sports do not get a big rest inbetween.

    If you make it easier to play badminton, your removing another element of the game, namely fitness, which is very important , and i think one of the reasons badminton is so popular is that there are various aspects to the game, making it complex and exciting.

    Besides, although you need to be pretty fit to play singles well, doubles isnt nearly as demanding and if we're honest , they're plenty sports out there where the atheles are pushed harder. I see plenty of elderly guys playing badminton . That wouldnt happen in many sports, so in reality we're pretty accomodating for those who arnt as fit. If your having trouble keeping up, either accept it and slow down, or go train to bring it back up.

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    First, welcome to BadmintonCentral, leongwaipak.

    So let's see if I understand this. You've been pretty unfit in recent years and have played "to the point of passing out." WOW!

    And if it was up to you, you'd rather the game be slowed down because of this?

    I would suggest you hit the gym or do cardio and/or interval training, leongwaipak, because, as mojopin mentioned, you do have to be pretty fit for the game, if you want to play at a certain level.

    -dave

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    Regular Member jhirata's Avatar
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    Hmm, I agree that badminton is a tough sport which requires a lot of fitness. I can certainly say that badminton is the toughest sport I've played so far, I'd say that it's much more tiring than rugby and basketball IMO. But.. I'd chose to play badminton because of its requirements of good fitness, to improve my fitness

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    you get a one minute break once you reach 11, did you know that. For me Its plenty and im not in that great shape.

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    Regular Member leongwaipak's Avatar
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    No, I'm not just suggesting that the rules be changed to suit my fitness or the lack of it. That's why I only every play social doubles because it's been years since I played any competition and rarely like to play singles. I mean I don't care the opposition takes their sweet time between points when playing socially.

    I'm just saying that the continuous play is way too hard even for the professionals. I remember in a final recently between Lee Chong Wei and Bao Chunlai that Bao was changing shuttles almost every point to buy extra time to recover while LCW was more fitter (and more skinnier/smaller frame!).

    I think Kevindoui was right about the 1 minute rest at 11 points but I still doesn't seem enough for the long rallies the pro's play for every point. I think if the pros weren't so fatigued and just trying to stay in the point that they would be more aggressive.

    Found this Badminton NZ website with some interesting stats.
    http://www.bco.org.nz/Tournaments/Re...hips/index.htm
    4th point about players getting tired at the end of the match is obvious because of fatigue.

    I mean, Boxing is a tough sport too but you get a couple of minutes rest at the end of every 3 minute round! I mean, how long does every point last in Badminton compared to Tennis when they get rest at the change of ends?

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    I'm thinking you're maybe one of the first one to argue for the "tired opponent" situation, ever. Almost always, someone would look at that Lee Chong Wei/Bao Chun Lai match and comment, wow, LCW really worked hard on his fitness, and it's paying off, or BCL didn't train hard enough, and it's showing. Li Yong Bo going to kick his ass.

    This is the first time I hear, "Poor Bao. Let's change the badminton rules so he won't be so tired."

    In sports, it's usually train harder, or fail.

    -dave

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    Regular Member leongwaipak's Avatar
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    no no, you're all missing the point.
    Of course you have to maintain fitness but don't you also have to maintain fitness other sports like tennis?

    Quote Originally Posted by wood_22_chuck View Post
    I'm thinking you're maybe one of the first one to argue for the "tired opponent" situation, ever. Almost always, someone would look at that Lee Chong Wei/Bao Chun Lai match and comment, wow, LCW really worked hard on his fitness, and it's paying off, or BCL didn't train hard enough, and it's showing. Li Yong Bo going to kick his ass.

    This is the first time I hear, "Poor Bao. Let's change the badminton rules so he won't be so tired."

    In sports, it's usually train harder, or fail.

    -dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by leongwaipak View Post
    No, I'm not just suggesting that the rules be changed to suit my fitness or the lack of it. That's why I only every play social doubles because it's been years since I played any competition and rarely like to play singles. I mean I don't care the opposition takes their sweet time between points when playing socially.

    I'm just saying that the continuous play is way too hard even for the professionals. I remember in a final recently between Lee Chong Wei and Bao Chunlai that Bao was changing shuttles almost every point to buy extra time to recover while LCW was more fitter (and more skinnier/smaller frame!).

    I think Kevindoui was right about the 1 minute rest at 11 points but I still doesn't seem enough for the long rallies the pro's play for every point. I think if the pros weren't so fatigued and just trying to stay in the point that they would be more aggressive.

    Found this Badminton NZ website with some interesting stats.
    http://www.bco.org.nz/Tournaments/Re...hips/index.htm
    4th point about players getting tired at the end of the match is obvious because of fatigue.

    I mean, Boxing is a tough sport too but you get a couple of minutes rest at the end of every 3 minute round! I mean, how long does every point last in Badminton compared to Tennis when they get rest at the change of ends?
    this link you have is quite interesting, considering in extra points according to the new rule, at 20-all, if you play until 29-all without a winner by 2, the next point wins at 30-29, but here it says 31-30 lol...

    but ya, fitness rules in badminton. whether you have endurance for footwork or muscle endurance for smashes etc, you need it, and it's best you train for it, or just don't play as high of a level

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    Okay. Let's try this from another perspective.

    It is the player's decision, in any sports, to push the envelope, strain the limits, push endurance, to the limit (a'la Survivor, outwit, outlast, outplay). A defensive badminton player will try to outlast his/her opponent, an offensive player will try to exploit by outplaying his/her opponent by applying tactical pressure, and brilliant players (Zhao Jian Hua, Taufik) will try to outwit.

    Shall we also change the rules to:

    1) shorten the game against defensive players, or lengthen breaks to allow the opponent to recover?
    2) limit the number of smashes per game
    3) (what rules to change to prevent outwitting?)

    -dave

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    leongwaipak makes a good point. Badminton, like almost every sport, is an interval sport in the sense that it has intense intervals where points are counted, and rest intervals between those intense intervals. The intensity level of the intense interval is inversely related to the length of the rest interval. If in general the ratio of work to rest is too high, then the intensity of the rallies will be lower, no matter how fit you are.

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    The avg rally lasts from around 6-15 seconds for average players and around 30 seconds for professionals. Of course there are longer rally's as well.

    This was taken from Max Wood, Level 2 coach in Australia, ex Australian Champion.

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    hmmm - let me extrapolate and generalise for a few seconds:

    take any athletic sport.. be it, badminton, football, tennis, sprinting etc. etc.

    generally the players at the top of their sport are the fittest players.. if one player keels over on court - it's because their opponent was fitter - not because the games are too physically hard... if they're that unfit - they will lose faster.. and hence reduce the risk of keeling (unless they're incredibly good at dealing with the pain ala Sun Jun vs Peter Rasmussen when he played on with cramp..)

    by making the games easier physically all your doing is removing an element of the game.. and lets face it - if you give them more rests - it's only 'cardio' rest - they will play harder in the shorter patches to make up for them being shorter... tis' the nature of the beast..

    in badminton - if your not fit enough to play singles - play doubles

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    Badminton and squash are the two sports that seem to have more fatalities. If you are not fit and you are a fighter, this could be dangerous especially if you play singles.

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    This is ridiculous. Doubles is just as tiring. Also, what's this whole idea of reducing the workload on players? If you can't take it, then pace yourself, or don't play. It's not like something's forced upon you...and there are other sports with longer continuous play, not to mention that there are intervals between rallies to set up serves and change birdies.

    To leongwaipak: Sorry about your friend's friend.

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    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Arrow Not For Weaklings

    At the advanced level, it shouldn't be:
    Is badminton keeping you fit?

    Instead, it should be:
    Are you fit enough for competitive badminton?

    If you are not, there's always Monopoly

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    Or backyard badminton... Aren't there water breaks allowed by the referee during tournament matches? In competitive badminton, you can always request for a water break upon possession of the serve. Whether you get it or not depends on the judge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    At the advanced level, it shouldn't be:
    Is badminton keeping you fit?

    Instead, it should be:
    Are you fit enough for competitive badminton?

    If you are not, there's always Monopoly

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