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View Poll Results: Best frontman in men's doubles

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  • Park Joo Bong

    42 3.81%
  • Kim Dong Moon

    22 2.00%
  • Kim Moon Soo

    5 0.45%
  • Rexy Mainaky

    30 2.72%
  • Tony Gunawan

    172 15.62%
  • Hendra Setiawen

    126 11.44%
  • Cai Yun

    259 23.52%
  • Koo KK

    189 17.17%
  • Jens Eriksen

    19 1.73%
  • Sigit Budiarto

    59 5.36%
  • Lee Yong Dae

    169 15.35%
  • Christian Hadinata

    9 0.82%
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  1. #528
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Great comment. Your opinion isn't the public one so you just call it 'stupid'. Just out of curiosity - how does Setiawan's title collection compare to Cai Yun's? How far did he go in the '12 OG? Oh wait. He didn't qualify.

    And just to fend off any discussion on the matter - I actually consider Setiawan to be a great net player. Just not as great as Cai Yun.

  2. #529
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    These are all our own opinions anyways. But if we were to compare when they were at their peak, Setiawan would be my nominee.

  3. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4ckie View Post
    Great comment. Your opinion isn't the public one so you just call it 'stupid'. Just out of curiosity - how does Setiawan's title collection compare to Cai Yun's? How far did he go in the '12 OG? Oh wait. He didn't qualify.

    And just to fend off any discussion on the matter - I actually consider Setiawan to be a great net player. Just not as great as Cai Yun.
    Yes, it's not nice to call the poll stupid.

    However, I think setiawan is a better net player than cai yun,

    The last time they met with equal strong partners was 2008 Olympic.

    Setiawan won the net play thus making fu haifeng unable to smash.

    Nevertheless, cai yun is quicker and more powerful but setiawan is more crafty and better anticipation.

  4. #531
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    To be perfectly honest, Setiawan even had a fairly substantial disadvantage as far as firepower and mobility are concerned, although Kido was better at the net than Fu back then. That was pretty much key to their success - they didn't have a significantly weaker formation, whereas the Chinese were much less dangerous with Fu at the front.
    Over the years, Cai Yun showed that he was the better player though imop - consistent performance at the highest level, and he made up for his 'disadvantage' at reading the game and standing in the right spot (compared to Setiawan) by being far more explosive and pretty powerful.

    Anyhow, I'm glad Setiawan is now playing with a decent partner so I can watch some of his matches without being against his team regardless of circumstances.

  5. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4ckie View Post
    To be perfectly honest, Setiawan even had a fairly substantial disadvantage as far as firepower and mobility are concerned, although Kido was better at the net than Fu back then. That was pretty much key to their success - they didn't have a significantly weaker formation, whereas the Chinese were much less dangerous with Fu at the front.
    Over the years, Cai Yun showed that he was the better player though imop - consistent performance at the highest level, and he made up for his 'disadvantage' at reading the game and standing in the right spot (compared to Setiawan) by being far more explosive and pretty powerful.

    Anyhow, I'm glad Setiawan is now playing with a decent partner so I can watch some of his matches without being against his team regardless of circumstances.
    indeed, fu was outplayed in og08, consistency wise, cai yun was top notch, I can't think of any players that last as long as him at the top, 10years, maybe the only one is park joo bong.

    maybe also lee dong soo?

  6. #533
    Regular Member drquick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SibugiChai View Post
    indeed, fu was outplayed in og08, consistency wise, cai yun was top notch, I can't think of any players that last as long as him at the top, 10years, maybe the only one is park joo bong.

    maybe also lee dong soo?
    Do you ever heard the name of Chandra Wijaya ???

  7. #534
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    wow. koo kean keat is better than hendra setiawan in this poll. what a poll!

    even hendra setiawan is better than tony gunawan.

  8. #535
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drquick View Post
    Do you ever heard the name of Chandra Wijaya ???
    He said 'at the top'.

    Quote Originally Posted by belomeri View Post
    wow. koo kean keat is better than hendra setiawan in this poll. what a poll!

    even hendra setiawan is better than tony gunawan.
    Well I guess it's because INA fans are split between TG and HS while Malaysian fans all vote for KKK
    TG was actually better than HS so I think in that regard the poll is indeed correct

  9. #536
    Regular Member drquick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SibugiChai View Post
    indeed, fu was outplayed in og08, consistency wise, cai yun was top notch, I can't think of any players that last as long as him at the top, 10years, maybe the only one is park joo bong.

    maybe also lee dong soo?
    Quote Originally Posted by j4ckie View Post
    He said 'at the top'.
    Indeed. If we want to point on the players that played on the top level for 10 yrs Chandra Wijaya definetely one of the name must be include.
    He was World Champions on 1997 and runner up in 2003 and 2005. Olympic Gold 2000. In 2006 and 2007 he still on the top tier of world's MD with Tony Gunawan (he also must be include in the list) won Indonesia open and Japan SS.
    If Lee Dongsoo want to include (and put down the standard) then his partner Yoo Yongsung along with their compatriot Ha Taekwon and Kim Dongmoon, their rivals like Sigit Budiarto, Lars Paask and Jens Eriksen. They're on the top world class for many years but not as long as names above.

  10. #537
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    This poll result doesn't reflect how LYD lost 3 times to Hendra Setiawan this year. While CY lost 2 times within 2 weeks time this year. The later one, perhaps because of CY is now slower and older. At their top forms, I will still pick HS. But I can't decide between TG and HS. But of course, CY consistency is among the best with PJB, Ricky, Rexy, Candra Wijaya, etc.
    My list in order:
    1. HS
    2. TG
    3. CY
    4. LYD

    I will not pick KKK as I think he is more to have fancy shots rather than good front man of MD.
    On this matter, I will even pick Sigit Budiarto.
    Last edited by naistav; 06-24-2013 at 08:58 PM.

  11. #538
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    This is about who's the best net player, not who won the most matches against the other players featured...and LYD is already a more successful player than HS if you go by number of titles. That might explain why he's got many votes, and the fact that he was so successful so early in his career (first SS title when he was 18 iirc) indicates just how talented he his. His lack of OG/WC Gold is a reason to vote against him though, I get that.

    Anyhow, while winning these 2 back-to-back titles was a big achievement for HS without doubt, I wouldn't attach too much importance to CY's/FHF's losses in these tournaments. They're just coming back from a rather long period of inactivity, caused by the drop in intensity after the OG and of course CY's various injuries, and I'm not quite sure how hungry their are after achieving everything there is to achieve...no current pair can even hope to match their titles in their careers. It would take 6 years just to get the 4 WC Golds and 2 OG medals, and winning the most prominent tournament 4 years in a row (3 WC, 1 OG) is just phenomenal. Not even TG, PJB or KDM can boast that kind of stat.

    Concerning LYD's losses - the poll accurately shows how many times he was in tournament finals while HS couldn't even get past the QF stage in the last 4 years. Shoving all of the responsibility for that onto Markis Kido wouldn't be quite realistic (although I think it was more his fault than HS, and that he should've ended his career while he could still be considered an athlete, roughly 10 Kilos ago).

    I don't get why so many rank HS higher than TG - TG undoubtedly achieved more (although HS still has the chance to even the score), and was lethal. How he managed to win the '05 WC with a partner like Howard Bach is still a mystery to me.

  12. #539
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    Well, what I'm trying to say is, LYD was completely outplayed in the net area by HS in 3 finals in a row this year. Hope you did watch all 3 matches.
    Number of MD titles between them is not too much different. Only 28 vs 30 (see below, I compiled from wikipedia).
    2013: HS won 3 titles already while LYD only 1.
    2012: HS = 2, LYD = 2
    2011: HS = 0, LYD = 8
    2010: HS = 2, LYD = 4
    2009: HS = 4, LYD = 6
    2008: HS = 5, LYD = 5
    2007: HS = 7, LYD = 1
    2006: HS = 2, LYD = 2
    2005: HS = 3, LYD = 1
    And as you said, LYD is yet to get his OG/WC. So, achievements wise, fair to say they are about equal to date. Their H2H is also about same.
    MK/HS vs LYD/JJS = 4:7
    MA/HS vs LYD/KSH = 0:3
    MK vs JJS I will pick JJS for consistency, superb defense with hard smashes which helped their H2H while MK is prone error and a bit yo-yo. MA achievements (with Bona) are below KSH (with YYS).
    So, let's get back with how HS command the net play over LYD which were keys of his victories. 3 consecutives straight set game. Again, please watch the matches.
    But of course, LYD is a rare talent, no doubt. Maybe he is a better all-round player instead of net player only. That's why LYD suit also on XD game.

  13. #540
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    I watched the first two, not the Singapore Open one. I can't say I saw LYD being outplayed at the net - the pair played a tactically faulty game, playing many shots fast into the INA net players hitting zone, which they both excel at intercepting. A much more promising tactic would be to play soft shots around their bodies, which would take out the attacking pace and Ahsan has been known to make a lot of errors/weak shots on those.

    Altogether, I'm actually of the opinion that both Korean players (individually) are better than their INA counterparts. HS/MA combine exceptionally well, though, and that seems to give them a clear edge.

  14. #541
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    I think HS is the most intimidating one out of them at the net but TG, LYD and even KKK are like brick walls when at their best. To be honest I never figured out how CY get's it done but he usually does one way or another (true winner, not that I closely studied the matches; must re-watch a lot of their matches some day) .

    Anyhoo my vote went to Tony a loooooong time ago (oh yeah CY has one OG title, not two but their WC/OG finals performances were second to none)
    Last edited by demolidor; 06-25-2013 at 03:33 PM.

  15. #542
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Or should I/we use "stone wall" from stonewalling ...

  16. #543
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demolidor View Post
    I think HS is the most intimidating one out of them at the net but TG, LYD and even KKK are like brick walls when at their best. To be honest I never figured out how CY get's it done but he usually does one way or another (true winner, not that I closely studied the matches; must re-watch a lot of their matches some day) .

    Anyhoo my vote went to Tony a loooooong time ago (oh yeah CY has one OG title, not two but their WC/OG finals performances were second to none)
    Were you referring to my post with the 1 OG Gold comment? Because I was talking about 2 OG medals, which meant 1 Gold 1 Silver of course

  17. #544
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    For those attempting to "proselytize" others, I suggest... forget it. In some cases, people adhere more zealously to their favorite athletes/team than to their, ahem, religion

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