i have a feeling i have the above. i suffer bilateral knee pain (well, dull ache...) esp after playing badminton (3x per week, 3 hours per session). pain generally localised within the knee joints, hence i suspect it's degeneration of the patellar/femoral articular surface. negative results for apley's and mcmurrays tests (phew...thank goodness for that). i would be really grateful if someone can give me some advice on nutrition especially on the daily dosage of glucosamine and chondroitin that i should take to improve the cartilage health or at the very least prevent further deterioration. any further advice on new technology and related issues will be highly appreciated too. thanks!
The most substantial evidence-based research into glucosomine/chondroitin is the GAIT trial. This showed some evidence of efficacy for patients in the moderate-severe pain subgroup. This evidence is far from conclusive. If you wish to use the supplements, however, I recommend you take the same dosage as was used in the GAIT trial: 1500mg glucosamine per day 1200mg chondroitin per day. Regardless of supplementation, you should continue to seek help from medical experts in order to identify the source of your pain. Popping supplements will not solve the underlying problem.
And add 1200 mg of MSM to your supplement mix. My knee problem started out like you. If the pain gets worse and there is lots of crepitation and looseness in the petallar, book an appointment for a 3.0 T MRI scan or a 7.0 T one. The only way to know exactly what is going on in your knee(s) is to have an arithoscopic inspection by a highly qualified orthopedic surgeon. Good luck.
Here is more information: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19960&highlight=glucosamine
thanks for the advice, gollum and pete_lsd i do realise that popping pills is not the answer. however, if the cause is due to degeneration of articular cartilage, at least the supplements will help regenerate it. i hope it's worth a try. at the moment, i'm not thinking about MRI scans just yet - this is simply because it's a bit of a hassle to have it arranged and it's not exactly cheap to have one in the UK (i think). purely out of curiosity, pete_lsd, what's the 3.0T and 7.0T scans? do you have a rough idea about costs and accessibility? time for a bit of supplement shopping now!
got the supplements from: http://www.simplysupplements.net/pr...id=40&osCsid=11781388cf9f46c84e6e4d8eeab44962 1500mg of glucosamine + 1200mg of (marine) chondroitin for GBP0.15 per day plus free gift: 120x 500mg omega3 capsules - good natural anti-inflammatory it's so inexpensive i'm starting to worry i'm buying some sort of fake/placebo-ey/low-grade product. i'm such a terrible *skeptic*
My shoulder MRI was free (on the NHS). Of course, that's not "on demand" -- the MRI was ordered by the orthopaedic clinic, which my GP referred me to. And of course, you have to wait a bit.
exactly - i'll need to make an appointment with the GP, see him, hope that he'll refer me to an orthopaedic specialist and then i might stand a chance to have a scan to pin-point the underlying problem...this will take at least 2 months if not more? plus i'll have to take quite a few days off i suspect. i'll try to see if i can do it privately the next time i'm back in KL...Pantai Hospital (Cheras) is only 5 minutes drive from where i live thanks for the replies...
mcchooi, T is Tesla, a measuring unit for magnetic field strength. The higher the T is, the sharper the scan resolution, all else equal. Best of luck, Pete
Has anyone tried bromelain and papain? These are from pineapples and papaya and are quite powerful natural anti-inflammatory substances. They are very useful before and after every badminton game. Recently playing in a non-heated hall with the temperature at 12 degrees C and 40% humidity and without adequate warmup, my knees were very stiff and painful. After taking 4 bromelain and papain tablets, a pair each time, by having them dissolved between my teeth and gums, I can now walk without any pain again. I should be good enough to play again tomorrow.
if these supplements come in tablet form, will it not be easier to go for the economical and readily available ibuprofen instead? what difference does it make: bromelain and papain being a natural form as opposed to ibuprofen being some sort of chemical formula? how about eating fresh pineapples and papayas?
let me know how the glucosamine and chondroitin work our for you. i'm interested in trying it out myself, though my condition doesn't seem to be too bad just yet. also, might i ask where you play? is it in london or do you normally play in kent?
Most of the bromelain is in the stem of the fruit. So, make sure that you eat that part. Most pre-cut/canned pineapple cuts out the stem so that stuff is no good. Also, bromelain is a good digestive aid as well.
Ibuprofen is a drug and can be dangerous, as it can cause gastrointestinal bleeding, ulcers, and perforation. This can occur at any time, with or withour warning, in people who take chronic NSAID treatment. There are other problems with ibuprofen for people with asthma, clotting problems, heart problems. It can also cause severe toxic effects to the kidney. Papain and bromelain are derived from fruits, namely Papaya and pineapple, and are harmless. Its anti-inflammatory efficacy is as good as if not better than ibuprofen and other NSAIDS, if you dissolve them in your mouth between the cheeks and gums.
Another side effect of ibuprofen (as with other painkillers and anti-inflammatory medicine) is that prolong usage will cause the drug to lose it's effects in the long run. I took Ponstan for 5 years, resulting in most painkillers losing effect on me now. also, it is strongly recommended to take antacid to neutralise the effect on gastric.
Based on what? Personal opinion/experience? Scientific studies? Yes, the long-term effects of ibuprofen are potentially harmful. I would not recommend its use for more than a month continuously, and that only in exceptional circumstances. But its efficacy as an anti-inflammatory is well established (unlike your fruit alternative).
The use of papain and bromelain to treat inflammation goes back many years. The first time I used them was in 1995 when an nutritional supplement companies packaged them as Enzymes with claimed benefits like more energy, easier and faster digestion, superior nutrient absorption, etc., including alleviating knee pains and stiffness. An orthopedic surgeon treated me and my wife, and he also prescribed papain but no bromelain. I have used papain and bromelain for close to 13 years and have never used NSAIDS since then. I have also introduced them to probably more than 50 people and they seem to be convinced that it helps. For badminton players I highly recommend them as they will help minimize inflammation you get from sports. Papain and bromelain now seem to be in the public domain. You can find them in every pharmacy and dispensary in Hong Kong and the chemists in these outlets will tell you what they are used for-as anti-inflammation fighters. Even the internet now seems to have tons of information on papain and bromelain, and you can simply do a search on yahoo or google.
Time for.. ..our nutrioutlet to come in here and chime in on the efficacy of papain (papaya) and bromelain (pineapple)..
yes will do...or if i forget, do remind me in maybe 6mths time...will let you know if there's a noticeable difference i play in london (wednesday and friday/sunday) - where do you play? i heard about LBI and am thinking of trying out there
