Koo Kean Keat & Tan Boon Heong - Going Downhill?

[GunBlade008]

LOL, you havent seen previous posts that got locked when threads similar to this got started on KKK/TBH, he he.

Let's hope that heated debates stay cool and hopefully this one won't be locked up

[Pemuda]

Yes this part I know, we "the fans" are often the ones being laughed at.
And as I said many, many, many, times, in real life, we are the minority. . It takes guts to be the minority, being called idiots or dreamers by the majority, which constitutes about 80%.

I have to saying this cos some non Msian BCers even think majority of Msian fans are blind supporters, in reality it is not so.

It is easy to say "they're useless", etc, etc. It's easy to support when the players are winning, it is easy not to support when they keep losing - this is what has been said by the players & non Msians.
I've frequently have had the embarassment of explaining to questioning non Msians why Msians dont support own players - effects my reputation too as a Msian.

The metrics, like press reports or statistics are about the only things we small minions have to use. The funny thing is Indonesia fan like Badmania has started defending them too, lol.

Fools or dreamers we may be called -if in real life the impossible has become possible, anything can happen.

It would help if KKK dont make bold statements like "we are ready to plunder again in Europe" before a tournament. He should deliver first before running his mouth off.

And yes, you are spot on!! "If in real life the impossible has become possible, anything can happen" .... yes!! KKK/TBH got bundled out in the very 1st round of the AE.

[azabaz_ipoh]

"Will you agree with me when I say KKK will be a legend?"
This question was posted by an ardent fan of Koo Kien Keat.
In case you want to see that recent post, click here

Well, now you know why I posted my views on this 'legend-in-the-making'
I could reel off several reasons for this but I will give just one.

As for Cai Yun & Fu Haifeng, they are still in the fray, aren't they?
Let's wait until after 1745 GMT

the first bolded statement, that was said by ONE fan. she is very zealous. i dont agree with it but she is a fan and how she express it is her prerogative.

please do give us more than one reason.

even CY/FHF is out now. so i was right about underdogs taking the helm this ALL ENGLAND.

The problem with Koo Kean Kiat/Tan Boon Heong fans is this.

You have great faith and hope on the pair on doing well, and support them "all the way," good or bad, win or lose.

Other people, would rather support them based on metrics, staying power, mental strength; things that can been seen and observed.

When you put the two together, you can't, because they're mutually exclusive, at the moment.

So "the fans" look foolish to the realists, and the realists look unsupportive to "the fans."

And when "the fans" like eaglehelang, azza...ipoh (too many 'z') try to defend based on metrics, like newspaper clippings, etc., it just doesn't work.

-dave

i suspect that those you called realist are not really fans in the first place. supporting based on metrics, mental strength...etc etc, are not being a fan, that is being a bookie. or an analyst. a fan support with their hearts. fans means supporting your team through good and bad. liverpool fans dont stop supporting their team because they haven't won in a while. in fact they are more behind the team knowing they will win again. that is a fan. we can criticize and be disappointed and even hate our player at times but being a fan means you will still support them. if you dont, you are not a fan. you are just an outsider critizing (some constructively and others merely critizing based on what they see on the outside). this ALL ENGLAND showed that all players have their ups and downs. be it the favourites or the underdogs. maybe what some people are mad about is the fact that this pair go up way too fast and way too soon. and fans sung their praises way too loud.

and the following statement, that came not from a fan (badmania is MK/HS fan and the fan of indonesian team), is as real as it gets but people ignore what he had to say. people will say it is just statistics. i never once think CY/FHF is going downhill nor did i ever think MK/HS is going downhill. these are top players, good players. and they still are. i dont hear any of their fans crticizing them or any "realist" criticizing them. why is that?

How do u judge consistency?

Since the World Championships 2007:

Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun -- French and Korean Open titles and 7 losses
-- SF losses in Macau (to Choong/Lee), Denmark (to Eriksen/Hansen), Hong Kong (to Kido/Hendra), Malaysia Opens (to Paaske/Rasmussen)
-- R16 loss in Japan (to Paaske/Rasmussen) and All-England Opens (to Njoto/Wiratama)
-- R32 loss in China Open (to Zakry/Fairuz)

Markis Kido/Hendra Setiawan -- China, Hong Kong, and Malaysia Opens titles and 6 losses
-- SF losses in Japan (to Luluk/Alvent), Macau, and Denmark Opens (both to Koo/Tan)
-- QF loss in French Open (to Choong/Lee)
-- R16 loss in Korea Open (to Paaske/Rasmussen)
-- R32 loss in All-England Open (to Ohtsuka/Masuda)

Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong -- Macau and Denmark Opens titles and 6 losses
-- QF loss in French (to Ohtsuka/Masuda) Hong Kong Open (to Tony/Candra)
-- R16 loss in Japan (to Luluk/Alvent), China (to Tsai/Hu), Malaysia Opens (to Paaske/Rasmussen)
-- R32 loss in All-England Open (to Sakamoto/Ikeda)

All the 3 pairs have their share of losses in early rounds.

[eaglehelang]

Well...Hong Kong badminton fans must be scatching their head right now. Who on earth will even think of Albertus Susanto Njoto/Yohan Wiratama Hadikusumo (ranked at a lowly 18th spot in the WR table) ACTUALLY BEATING the World No 1 Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun...the pair which reputedly can only be beaten by Indonesian and Malaysian pairs. The HKG pair has such a dismal record against the World No 1 that it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to think of an upset, unlike the Japanese pairs (ranked 12th and 14th), who have shocked us before

Oh...not to mention Jens Eriksen/Martin Lundgaard Hansen, the 2 times All-England winners (I vaguely remember this pair is someone's favorite pair ) crashed out in the very first round too, to Tsai Chia-Hsin/Hu Chung-Hsien (ranked a lowly 22). This defeat must have be embarassing too, right?

Chan Chi Choy (the HKG Head Coach) must be thinking: what on earth gets to my players this week....the one supposed to win ended up losing (Zhou Mi), and the ones we predict will lose ended up victorious (Yip Pui Yin and the Indonesian-born pair).

Imagine if you are Li Yongbo and Chen Xingdong....both of your MD pairs lost in the early rounds....at least INA and MAS have 1 aging pair each.

The fact is, we have seen some miracles happening this week.

Badmania, that's not in the impossible category yet.
Albertus/Yohan have been around a while. If a stratch pair that ranks no 60 beats Fu/Cai or Kido/Setiawan, then only big news. I would have put World no 150++ but SS only top 60 can play in qualifiers.

Your Luluk/Alvent not that old lah, 28, 29 only right? They're having another wave of resurgence
And you dont seem too sad your heros, Kido/Setiawan lost in 1st round.

[badMania]

And yes, you are spot on!! "If in real life the impossible has become possible, anything can happen" .... yes!! KKK/TBH got bundled out in the very 1st round of the AE.

So very true.....not only the 1-time AE MD Champion got bundled out early in the 1st round.

The 2 times AE MD Champion, Eriksen/Hansen also lost to a lowly Chinese-Taipei pair also in the 1st round.

My favorite pair, the current World Champion, Kido/Hendra also lost to a Japanese pair (sadly )

Most shocking of all, the World and AE Champions, Fu/Cai also suffered a humiliating defeat to a Hong-Kong pair.

And the former Olympic Champion, Tony/Candra lost to a Korean pair (remember...one of them formed a scratch pairing and beat Koo/Tan not so long ago).

Zhang Ning, the 2-times World Champion and Olympics Gold Winner lost in the first round.

The best thing is, Xie Xingfang, the World No 1, the 3-times AE and 2-times WC Champions, the red hot favorite for the Gold in Olympics this year got bundled out too by a young HKG girl in the very first round

Oh well...I forgot that except for Koo/Tan and Eriksen/Hansen (someone's own fav pair) the rest are already either World Champions or Olympics Gold Medallists....so....nothing embarrasing about their loss. Shame on them....not a World Champion yet....and losing in the very first round...sigh..

[badMania]

And you dont seem too sad your heros, Kido/Setiawan lost in 1st round.

The loss of Fu/Cai made up for my bad mood yesterday

Suddenly, everything is rosy once again

[Oldhand]

Well, even the coach seems terribly exasperated.
Rexy Mainaky feels that KKK & TBH are losing all the time
I'm referring to post # 71 by Dato_Asbullah

[badMania]

i suspect that those you called realist are not really fans in the first place. supporting based on metrics, mental strength...etc etc, are not being a fan, that is being a bookie. or an analyst. a fan support with their hearts. fans means supporting your team through good and bad. liverpool fans dont stop supporting their team because they haven't won in a while. in fact they are more behind the team knowing they will win again. that is a fan. we can criticize and be disappointed and even hate our player at times but being a fan means you will still support them. if you dont, you are not a fan. you are just an outsider critizing (some constructively and others merely critizing based on what they see on the outside). this ALL ENGLAND showed that all players have their ups and downs. be it the favourites or the underdogs. maybe what some people are mad about is the fact that this pair go up way too fast and way too soon. and fans sung their praises way too loud.

First, thanks for your compliment

Mostly OT here:
I like the highlighted words that you have written. So very true! Like Manchester-United fans in the barren years before they eventually won a title again! Like the recent few years when everyone so very conveniently write off Manchester United and Arsenal (due to Chelsea's overwhelming dominance in 2004-2006). But we never stop supporting the team, don't we?

The media even cried out for Sir Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger to step down...but they hung on and looked at where they are right now.

You can't deny that Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong were a revelation when they won those titles in 2006 and 2007. Similar to Chelsea in the last 3 years. But, every team and pair WILL HIT a rough patch....it's just inevitable

[azabaz_ipoh]

Well, even the coach seems terribly exasperated.
Rexy Mainaky feels that KKK & TBH are losing all the time
I'm referring to post # 71 by Dato_Asbullah

rexy should be exasperated. they are his charges. he trains them. he has the right to be upset. and fans have a right to be upset. i know i am. i am disappointed. i am exasperated. i am sad. but i still support. i can see other players also go through bad times. i like their fans who still support them through thick and thin. i will too. the only thing that will stop me being a fan is when these players dont even try. when these players stop caring. when these players do something that shows bad character. until then, i will stay a fan.

[badMania]

Well, even the coach seems terribly exasperated.
Rexy Mainaky feels that KKK & TBH are losing all the time
I'm referring to post # 71 by Dato_Asbullah

Of course...Rexy will undoubtedly feel sad. But, to say that Koo/Tan are losing ALL THE TIME will be exagerrating...don't forget the part when he said that he got used to it when Koo/Tan kept on winning last year.

The last titles for Koo/Tan were the back-to-back Macau and Denmark Opens (which ended in early November). It's ONLY 4 mths without a title!

Remember...Kido/Hendra hit a rough patch too when they lost (all the time, to quote Rexy), since their victory at the Invitational World Cup 2006 in November 2006. Their next title was only at the World Championships in August 2007. That's 8 barren months! It also took them almost a year without title, from the Indonesia Open title in Sep 2005 to their next title in Hong Kong Open in September 2006.

Fu/Cai also hit a bad patch after winning their first title (Swiss Open in March 2004) and only won another back-to-back titles in and All-England 2005. Thats ONE FULL YEAR without a title! Even after that AE title, they again hit a rough patch until November 2005, another 7 barren months! Following that, another 6 barren months until the Chinese-Taipei Open 2006. After their World Championships title in September 2006, again, they hit another barren patch which ended only in Singapore Open in May 2007, another 7 barren months!

I wonder what will Rexy say to the media if he's Fu/Cai's coach during those barren periods

[badMania]

rexy should be exasperated. they are his charges. he trains them. he has the right to be upset. and fans have a right to be upset. i know i am. i am disappointed. i am exasperated. i am sad. but i still support. i can see other players also go through bad times. i like their fans who still support them through thick and thin. i will too. the only thing that will stop me being a fan is when these players dont even try. when these players stop caring. when these players do something that shows bad character. until then, i will stay a fan.

Well said, as always, sister !

[morphy]

rexy should be exasperated. they are his charges. he trains them. he has the right to be upset. and fans have a right to be upset. i know i am. i am disappointed. i am exasperated. i am sad. but i still support. i can see other players also go through bad times. i like their fans who still support them through thick and thin. i will too. the only thing that will stop me being a fan is when these players dont even try. when these players stop caring. when these players do something that shows bad character. until then, i will stay a fan.

I agree with those statements esp the bolded parts...well said. Nothing I hate more than to see a player that doesn't even try - even if it happens to be the opposition!

But I don't feel this is about supporting or not supporting your team when things aren't going well. If support means contantly following your teams' progress and wanting to see them succeed more than anything else then you're a fan....that never goes away even when they're losing. But being a fan doesn't mean you can't also be critical. Does it help your team..probably not. But that's part and parcel of professional sports. It's result oriented and when they fail, its usually in front of thousands and hundreds of thousands more in front of the TV. When you or I fail, probably only a handful of people will know about it.

Back to KKK/TBH, they won't have had all the accolades and praise and hype and ardent loyal fan following if they hadn't produced the results they did. If they hadn't won a single tournament ever at all we won't even be talking about them much less have a thread like this. my point is when sports figures win, their fans love them. When they don't, they'll get criticisms. At least it shows that their fans care. The worst that can happen is when the fans don't care-that's when they cease to become fans.

I always feel bad for Canadian Baddy players because they get ZERO support at home. They'd love to even have 1% of the support or even just a hint of recognition MAS fans give to their players. Which is why in addition to MAS players, I'm also a Canadian supporter...they haven't had much impact internationally but I still support them. If I don't support them no one else will.

PS: I may not be living in MAS but grew up M'sian. Even went to the same school as KKK (SMI in Ipoh).

[samuel882]

KKK & TBH still is malaysia olympiak gold metal hope, i still support them, they is my dream team.

No, there is no Olympiak Games, so no hopes for KKK & TBH to win a metal in Gold Colour

[eaglehelang]

Well, even the coach seems terribly exasperated.
Rexy Mainaky feels that KKK & TBH are losing all the time
I'm referring to post # 71 by Dato_Asbullah

that article came out in today's The Star. Read 1st paragraph.
http://thestar.com.my/sports/story.a...938&sec=sports
Actually Rexy toned down already compared to last year, 2007 he'll blast them. That didnt work on TBH's flagging confidence.. Of course Rexy's disappointed, 4 out of 5 MD pairs crashed out 1st round.

[eaglehelang]

[quote=morphy;809043]I agree with those statements esp the bolded parts...well said. Nothing I hate more than to see a player that doesn't even try - even if it happens to be the opposition!

But I don't feel this is about supporting or not supporting your team when things aren't going well.......

I always feel bad for Canadian Baddy players because they get ZERO support at home. They'd love to even have 1% of the support or even just a hint of recognition MAS fans give to their players. Which is why in addition to MAS players, I'm also a Canadian supporter...they haven't had much impact internationally but I still support them. If I don't support them no one else will.

[quote]

The funny thing is in Msia, 80% only support when they're winning, they bash when the players dont play well. Only 20% support during 'bad times', if we dont support them, who else would ?

Also interesting is that non Msian fans seem to appreciate Msian player's skills more than Msians. It's a bit odd when non Msians continue to support their fav Msia players when 80% Msians dont - by this I mean saying "No way they can win-lah, sure lose, our players no use-lah."

[azabaz_ipoh]

But I don't feel this is about supporting or not supporting your team when things aren't going well. If support means contantly following your teams' progress and wanting to see them succeed more than anything else then you're a fan....that never goes away even when they're losing. But being a fan doesn't mean you can't also be critical. Does it help your team..probably not. But that's part and parcel of professional sports. It's result oriented and when they fail, its usually in front of thousands and hundreds of thousands more in front of the TV. When you or I fail, probably only a handful of people will know about it.

i agree we should criticize but let it be constructive criticism. and let it come from fans, who have shown support before. not those who have never even liked the players in the first place because it would only look like they were waiting for the players to do badly in order to rub salt into the wounds. i am not against criticism if the players are not doing their best.

[wood_22_chuck]

that article came out in today's The Star. Read 1st paragraph.
http://thestar.com.my/sports/story.a...938&sec=sports
Actually Rexy toned down already compared to last year, 2007 he'll blast them. That didnt work on TBH's flagging confidence.. Of course Rexy's disappointed, 4 out of 5 MD pairs crashed out 1st round.

That kind of article lowers The Star to the ranks of tabloid trash magazines. The person interviewing Rexy is getting sound-bites to make a story sensationally pedagogic. It's a stupid attitude to take, to kick someone when they're down.

It would make more sense for the reporter to take Rexy to task and letting him know that so many people are trying to get behind KKK/TBH to do well, but what will it take to get there?

-dave