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  1. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by koo_fan View Post
    Give us one year..
    I was afraid developing juniors cant deal with this.
    Rexy,stay for a while.
    It took me awhile to understand what you said but isn't your juniors under the wing of Rashid SidekIsn't Rexy loaded with work already with MD, XD, WDand now developing juniors also. I am certainly not admiring his position
    It is like some boss hiring you at a price tag of USD 2k and expect you to do a USD 6k job That sucks

  2. #87
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    In my humble opinion.....


    M'sian players are not being taught how to handle fame,pressure/ expectations and success. Each players have use their own way to overcome setback. Some use avoidance, withdrawal, projection, displacement, etc.The pair of KKK and TBH was formed accidently during the Asian Games and they won a gold medal unexpectedly. The current batch of players world badminton standards are inconsistent. Take the Chinese women singles for example, they can no longer dominate like they used to. Base on the current 21 points system, players from other countries are able to narrow their gap with the top guns. This is the objective of the BWF in introducing the new scoring system, by breaking the Chinese dominance and lower predictability. In this scoring system and the new drawing system, it is almost difficult to say who will win in any particular tournament.

    Back to KKK and TBH, i think they carry too much pressure to themselves. The fear of losing, the fear of letting people down and disappointment, ... KKK and TBH are different in their personality and probably have difficulties in communicating their differences. They can share success but not failure or maybe they don't even know how to overcome failure.

    In addition, a lot of players from Korea, Japan, Denmark and China started to study their game and that is why they find it hard to overcome their opponent as they already know their game. They lack of analysis skills and cooperative/ support within the groups of people in the organization . They need to face their fear and dare to lose. There is a difference between i have to win, i want to win, i need to win, i hope to win and i will win. Players often feel that way and what is the difference is that how they feel about it. Add the statement of I have to win, i want to win, i need to win, i hope to win and i will win with - but i'm not sure if i can / but i'm not confidence to win/ but the opponent is in great form..... etc. Cognitive dissonance i called it.

    The Japanese pair are improving under the guidance of Park Joo Bong. I'm sad to say that i seldom see the M'sia team to have team spirit like the japan team, korea team or even indonesia team. The entire social support is there and look at the japanese, they are performing and they are enjoying it. Same cannot be say with the M'sian... they are too tense with the face of "kiasunism" be it from the coaches or the players. I understand Coach Rexy want them to win every single tournament but that kind of mentality "i have to win, i need to win, i hope to win" put extra pressure on themselves because they are simply not confident in winning. For the highest level of playing badminton, it is not the matter of skill, stamina, footwork and startegy... its about the mind. That is why a world champion is different from others. There is something that the world champion had that the others don't. Or else what is the different between a state level champion and a national champion, a national champion and a world champion? That is the x-factor, to become a champion. They know how to handle pressure and despite the fear that they have ,they choose to do it anyway. I'm certain that CTF and LWW understood that. They are more relax now compare than few years back when they are so pressured to win.

    To illustrate it with politics in M'sia, the current KKK and TBH's situation is like the Barisan Nasional. Each party represents each groups of players in association, MS, MD, LS,LD,MD. Each group within the association only take care of their own group and discriminate the others when they are performing better. Their inconsistency of performance cause the public lost their faith and trust in them. Unless the groups of players come together like the opposition parties, they can do wonders. To achieve that, they have to CHANGE their mentality, put the country above their own interest.

    KKK and TBH have great potential but they need time to mature. They have to find the reasons why they are performing inconsistenly and work out a solution. One of the difficult part of the players is that they don't think psychology is important in badminton. They need to seek help from the sport psychologist to overcome their personal insecurities, fears and pressure. They have to change the way they think, and from there they see changes in their game. How much do they understand themselves and their partners are also important.

  3. #88
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    A very insightful analysis.

    Thank you very much.

    Coming back to sports psychology, even HK's chief coach suggested Wang Chen should get help form a sports psychologist in order to make the difference in winning the big tournaments. In the very same article, Wang Chen's reply was that she doesn't need a sports psychologist. This illustrates that some individuals may be in denial of even trying out the option.

    The team spirit aspect is something few people have touched upon. Win or lose, you are still part of the team, right?

  4. #89
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    Pemuda:

    I think you are very good in rubbing salt on your countrymen's wounds.
    Last edited by smashmouth; 03-10-2008 at 04:41 AM.

  5. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    The team spirit aspect is something few people have touched upon. Win or lose, you are still part of the team, right?
    Each of his owns. In the 90s, Dennis Rodman (Chicago Bulls best defensive player) once quoted during an interview, "Defence wins the game, Offence gets the glory". He was referring to Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen

    In soccer, 90% of top awards go to striker aka scorer; rarely goes for defender (except the Italy player in recent world cup) or goalkeeper (except German Kahn). OK, i said "rarely", not "entirely".

    The same goes for Badminton (except team events such as Sudirman/Uber Cup, etc). Most of the players chasing for personal glory, they are human afterall. Who will remember OG Silver or Bronze medalists? We only remember the winners aka Gold medalist (Taufik, Ji Xin Peng, ParkJB, Rexy, etc...) I am 100% sure that LD/LCW/BCL/CJ/etc are all gearing up for the personal glory at OG08


  6. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Each of his owns. In the 90s, Dennis Rodman (Chicago Bulls best defensive player) once quoted during an interview, "Defence wins the game, Offence gets the glory". He was referring to Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen

    In soccer, 90% of top awards go to striker aka scorer; rarely goes for defender (except the Italy player in recent world cup) or goalkeeper (except German Kahn). OK, i said "rarely", not "entirely".

    The same goes for Badminton (except team events such as Sudirman/Uber Cup, etc). Most of the players chasing for personal glory, they are human afterall. Who will remember OG Silver or Bronze medalists? We only remember the winners aka Gold medalist (Taufik, Ji Xin Peng, ParkJB, Rexy, etc...) I am 100% sure that LD/LCW/BCL/CJ/etc are all gearing up for the personal glory at OG08
    You might think it's individual gain but they can't win without a team behind them. Ever heard of Lance Armstrong? He had a very strong team behind him. It goes for most things as well. Even in business or organisations.

    If you haven't got a good team that supports you, when the going gets tough, the tough cannot get going...

    I've seen myself the M'sian team support at tournaments. You see the doubles support each other but I don't notice the same support for the singles players or the ladies players. It's not like the Koreans where most of them are there in the stadium watching their team mates, calling out support.
    Last edited by Cheung; 03-10-2008 at 04:48 AM.

  7. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheekygen View Post
    1) Back to KKK and TBH, i think they carry too much pressure to themselves. The fear of losing, the fear of letting people down and disappointment, ... KKK and TBH are different in their personality and probably have difficulties in communicating their differences. They can share success but not failure or maybe they don't even know how to overcome failure.


    2) .......... I'm certain that CTF and LWW understood that. They are more relax now compare than few years back when they are so pressured to win.

    3) ....... One of the difficult part of the players is that they don't think psychology is important in badminton. They need to seek help from the sport psychologist to overcome their personal insecurities, fears and pressure. They have to change the way they think, and from there they see changes in their game. How much do they understand themselves and their partners are also important.

    1) It's featured in the media & have been mentioned here but seen as an 'excuse' by some - even Sports Ministers consider the pressure reason as excuse. Msia never win OG gold before, so the "must win" pressure is there.
    Now there are even calls to split the pair, etc,etc.

    2) LWW said so in The Star - 2008 could be their last year before retiring, they decided to be more relaxed, LWW said did them good in terms of results - although they failed in AE Semis(as usual,due to CTF being nervous), they performed better than they would if they were under pressure.

    3) Errrrrr Rexy uses the services of the sports psychologist more than the other coaches. TBH have felt the pressure, I call it catching Fairuz's "nervous disease" at crucial points. KKK feels too, but he doesnt show it as much.

    There's the hightened anxiety as OG is only 5 months away, it's matter whether they & LCW can overcome all this by then.
    Last edited by eaglehelang; 03-10-2008 at 05:00 AM.

  8. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    You might think it's individual gain but they can't win without a team behind them. Ever heard of Lance Armstrong? He had a very strong team behind him. It goes for most things as well. Even in business or organisations.

    If you haven't got a good team that supports you, when the going gets tough, the tough cannot get going...

    I've seen myself the M'sian team support at tournaments. You see the doubles support each other but I don't notice the same support for the singles players or the ladies players. It's not like the Koreans where most of them are there in the stadium watching their team mates, calling out support.
    Well, everyone has a role to play (that's why they got paid handsomely) to form a formidable team. I doubt Msia players failed in AE was due to the teamwork, nor the coaches. The uncles LWW/CTF confessed that they had failed to finish it off when it matters most. So, dont blame that no support from your teamates, nor coaches. To me, that's non-sense. I'm 100% sure that Misbun + team are 100% behind our Mr.Yoyo but where does he stands now? first or second round casualties
    Last edited by jimbo; 03-10-2008 at 04:58 AM.

  9. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Well, everyone has a role to play (that's why they got paid handsomely) to form a formidable team. I doubt Msia players failed in AE was due to the teamwork, nor the coaches. The uncles LWW/CTF confessed that they had failed to finish it off when it matters most. So, dont blame that no support from your teamates, nor coaches. To me, that's non-sense. I'm 100% sure that Misbun + team are 100% behind our Mr.Yoyo but where does he stands now? first or second round casualties
    Cheekygen has already mentioned why LWW/CTF are more consistent than in the past. And you assume because people are paid, the support is automatic. We are not talking only the physical support, it's the mental support, the support you get when you know everybody works together.

    The team is only as strong as it's weakest link. We can see structural factors are good. So why are the players not performing? We have to look towards intangiable factors - team spirit (aka support) is very important.

    So, dont blame that no support from your teamates, nor coaches.
    Having worked in poorly performing teams with poor morale and good teams with good results, I think good support and good management are also fundamental issues for success.
    Last edited by Cheung; 03-10-2008 at 06:08 AM.

  10. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Susanto View Post
    It took me awhile to understand what you said but isn't your juniors under the wing of Rashid SidekIsn't Rexy loaded with work already with MD, XD, WDand now developing juniors also. I am certainly not admiring his position
    It is like some boss hiring you at a price tag of USD 2k and expect you to do a USD 6k job That sucks
    No.My point is the developing juniors under him need full attention now.
    KKk/tbh is a product by rexy.created by him.
    In my info,rexy have some juniors that are going to be in elite squad.

    To be left by ur mentor now??thast hurt,brother.
    Or professionally.they need the first mentor until they are capable to stand by their own with a new coach.

  11. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    My dear,

    Even if we have a Tiger Woods or a Roger Federer, we wont have a clue how to develop or manage them properly. Most probably our politicians will be taking them on their election rounds , fishing for votes. Using them like pawns.
    Dont expect me to do this oftenly.
    But i do agree with u.Some parties are using athletes for their own needs.Thats disgusting.

    With new picture of our leaders,maybe it will be a litle bit different.
    Lets see how athletes in penang,selangor,kedah n perak works.
    Will the MBs use them for individual needs?

  12. #97
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    I think what Koo-fan mean by juniors are the young players that just got promoted to senior squad = XD pairs of Lim/Ng and Wee Kiong/Woon.
    Msia dont have full time XD pairs, so our Asia Junior & World Junior Champs will be the 1st. And Rexy has additional assistant coach in the form of Jeremy Gan to look after XD.

    WD Chang is assistant and MD Pang is assistant.
    WD Junior if any that could be promoted is Goh LY since Ng Hui Lin is already in senior squad.

  13. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Well, everyone has a role to play (that's why they got paid handsomely) to form a formidable team. I doubt Msia players failed in AE was due to the teamwork, nor the coaches. The uncles LWW/CTF confessed that they had failed to finish it off when it matters most. So, dont blame that no support from your teamates, nor coaches. To me, that's non-sense. I'm 100% sure that Misbun + team are 100% behind our Mr.Yoyo but where does he stands now? first or second round casualties
    I think thats too simple minded. How can you be sure that Misbun + team are 100% behind our Mr.Yoyo ? Its not the AE performance that we evaluate but the whole support system of the team in long term performance. Of course CTF and LWW's lost in AE cannot be due to the lack of support from the teamates, nor coaches but M'sian players are mostly individual and lonely warrior who fight in the battle alone.

    Players often face 2 types of pressure; pressure from within themselves and pressure from the coaches,association,public/country. The problem is, most of the top players in M'sia are really extraordinary because they go into the court and fight alone,... carrying all the internal and external pressures. When they lose, they have to take the blame, criticism and being labeled as "Mr.Yoyo". When they win, suddenly everyone want to share their glory but where are these people when they lost? Not to mention , their team mates may not be the first but the last to share their victory due to the competitiveness environment.

    What i'm trying to explain is that M'sian players like KKK and TBH who admitted that they have difficulties in overcome their pressure can greatly reduce their external pressure (which is the main excess baggage that they've been carrying since they started to win tournaments) if there is a group of supportive team mates, coaches, officials and organizational who share the pressures together with them. Hence, when players go inside the court, there is an assurance that no matter win or lose, they are still worthy for the people and these people will always be there for them through thick and thin.

    The environment is like this; when a player wins, he or she received lots of praises, fame and rewards but because of this, others are envious and the attention they gained created extra pressure. When they lose, people start to criticize them saying they are too pampared, spoilt with fame and rewards, and their team mates are clapping and celebrating.... + coaches are giving them cold shoulder. Each time the players go for a tournament, these are the things that created the unconscious pressure and the fear of losing. This is the problem within the whole system (culture) of the organization and it effected everyone. Compare it with the Japanese or Korean, the support system( cooperation) is strong that coaches like Park Joo Bong, Li Mao love and enjoy working with the team and they are improving, producing results. Ask PJB and LM of their experience in working with the M'sian team and you will understand what i mean. Coaches like Rexy often felt frustrated with his player's inconsistent performance but in reality , Rexy have to understand that being a coach, he can only guide them and give them the best training prgram but to win every tournaments is something beyond his control.

    Correct me if i'm wrong, base on the current drawing system by the BWF, top players can clash out in early rounds and i think it is unfair to call them first round or second round casualties. If that is the case, LH/HS,CY/FHF, ZN, XXF, ZL can also join the yoyo club and labeled as "first round or second round casualties".... ?
    Last edited by cheekygen; 03-10-2008 at 11:09 AM.

  14. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    I think what Koo-fan mean by juniors are the young players that just got promoted to senior squad = XD pairs of Lim/Ng and Wee Kiong/Woon.
    Msia dont have full time XD pairs, so our Asia Junior & World Junior Champs will be the 1st. And Rexy has additional assistant coach in the form of Jeremy Gan to look after XD.

    WD Chang is assistant and MD Pang is assistant.
    WD Junior if any that could be promoted is Goh LY since Ng Hui Lin is already in senior squad.
    Thanks for explanation,sis.
    Rexy got helpful hand by another coach.But in a way,he is still a man in charge.
    Our young doubles still need rexy.
    Not only them,we are hoping on rexy to stay as kkk/tbh's guidemaster.

    taking my lovely fergie's - i'll leave man u when im sure my team is in good hand n my succesors are capable enough to lead.
    Now,thats a true coach.

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    Sis Cheekygen,having read ur post.It is a new thing for me to know that our support system is that bad.
    Basically,im not in the team.I dont even know whether u are in our team.
    Anyway,I wont judge ur words.The line to determine authencity of an opinion is ambigous.i hold to this principle.

    But,randomly,we can see how hafiz n tbh sing using a bottle as microphone to give support to julia wong.
    How our athletes in Korat sacrifices their only leisure time before the next game to be on the court n give support.
    How the other players defend their teammates in an interview for national tv station.
    BAM continously give chances to players to proved themselves over n over again before get rid of these players.

    What happen inside the team,i dont know.Obviously.
    If we do have problems in this matter,thank u for revealing all these.This should be taken seriously.I personally keep asking myself what is actually happen to kkk.Ur opinion could be the answer.It is ok to lose.But To keep losing is something unacceptable.

    Taking korea as an example is an option,after what they've done in Ae.
    So,next task is to improve our suppport system?

  16. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by koo_fan View Post
    It is ok to lose.But To keep losing is something unacceptable.

    Taking korea as an example is an option,after what they've done in Ae.
    So,next task is to improve our suppport system?
    Perhaps it is the perceptions of the players, coaches, officials that it is NOT OK to lose. In reality, it is ok to lose but what is unacceptable is keep losing without finding out what is the problem and solve it. The thing is, the association, just like the M'sian gov is trying to cover any negativism from the public. But the unhealthy environment reflected in the player's performance. Don't get me wrong, i love the sport and i care for the future of our young player's development.

    To improve our support system is not as easy as you think. There are too much politics, manipulation and power struggle. People fight for their own selfish reasons and to change that will take a very long time. The current batch of players can hardly change their mentality as they are being conditioned since they were young. The only hope that we have is the young junior players and we need more competent coaches that have knowledge not only in playing badminton but also knowledge in communication skills.
    Last edited by cheekygen; 03-10-2008 at 04:13 PM.

  17. #102
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    Improving the whole system is not simple.Of course.
    From the bottom of the issue,we got to fix it with all our heart.be sincere when doing our job.

    We,here,as fans n forumers called malaysians have our role too.
    What can we do here is giving support to improve,Give suggestions.
    N try very hard to avoid athletes feel bad about themselves all the way n refuses to wake up

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