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  1. #35
    Regular Member cxytdn's Avatar
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    Default Panel concludes Korea Open investigation

    Panel concludes Korea Open investigation

    14 March 2008


    The Badminton World Federation's Major Incident Review Team (MIRT) met during the Yonex All England Open Championships in Birmingham to conclude their investigations and into the developing controversy over line judge calls.

    The investigation was prompted by incidents during the Korean Open in January but especially in the men's singles final between Lin Dan of China and Lee Hyun-ll of Korea.

    The Team - led by Anne Smillie (Scotland), Chair of the BWF Sport Committee, and including Robin Bryant (Australia) and Torsten Berg (Denmark) - considered the evidence and examined reports received from tournament officials. A fourth member of MIRT, Roger Johannsen (Sweden), was unable to attend but was kept fully informed about the discussions and contributed to the recommendations.

    Anne Smillie said: “It was a sad fact that the evidence did show that some line judges were not basing their decisions on the facts. The evidence, particularly from the Korean event, led to the conclusion that line calls were in favour of local players.”

    As a result, the Team will recommend to the BWF Council, meeting in May in Jakarta, that for all major BWF events, including the Olympics, independent line judges must be used.
    For Super Series events, organisers should use independent line judges on the major lines.

    The Team felt it important to remind all court officials, the tournament referee, umpires and line-judges that they have two paramount responsibilities.

    Firstly, they should reassure the players that the competition is run in a fair way.

    Secondly, they should demonstrate that court officials are there to give players their best possible chance of performing to their optimum level.

    Anne said the Team would not be calling for disciplinary action against Lin Dan or any of the coaches following the Korean incident. But she added: “We are determined to ensure that coaches have a clear understanding of their responsibilities when courtside.

    “We are all agreed that Lin Dan's behaviour was unacceptable but, given the way in which the situation was handled at the time by the Umpire and Referee, it is not appropriate to impose further punishment.”

    However, Torsten Berg added: “It is important that the Korean Badminton Association recognise that the issue reflected badly on their event and on the image of Super Series. The Koreans must address the problem otherwise players might not be interested in playing in their tournament in the future.”

    In an attempt to reduce the number of disputed line calls, the MIRT members met Dr Paul Hawkins' Hawk-Eye company during the All England to examine how effective the technology would be in resolving disputed calls.

    The Team, well aware of the technology's success in other sports, will submit a report to Council on the possibilities of introducing it for badminton and BWF will continue to examine the possibilities.

    But Robin Bryant said: “While the technology could be useful, it would not be the complete answer. Building up a code of ethics for line judges, ensuring proper training and establishing a core of internationally-qualified line judges remains as big a priority for BWF.”

    While in Birmingham, Bryant addressed the Badminton Line Judges’ Association and encouraged them to work with BWF to raise standards and to recruit new members. He said: “There’s a large number of people interested in traveling to and working at events and I urge the Association to grasp this opportunity.”

  2. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdwood View Post
    I agree that the incident and its resolution will not lead to more recurrences for similar episode. Why? The confrontation between LD and LM brought out to the open a long ignored fact that biased line judging can produce wrong match winners. Now BWF has to get serious about fixing the root cause to restore the confidence, which will remove the fuel for such dispute in the future. Besides, the episode taught everyone a lesson for how to properly behave oneself. I think BWF comes out this incident smarter and more determined to take control of the situation rather than letting some biased linesmen decide the match outcomes.
    Are you kidding?
    Don't start making assumptions that LD would have won only because he won the next two points. This is SPECULATION.

    There is a limit to how you can protest, throwing a racket and pulling out your fist shouldn't be viewed as acceptable.
    In Copenhagen Masters 2007, the shuttle was very clearly out in the second set, but was seen in by the linesmen. KJ would have won the 2nd set if it was ruled out. KJ was upset, but did you see him get into a fight? No.

    The conclusion reached by the bwf is a joke....

  3. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by wocdam View Post
    both should be found guilty of unsporting behaviour, whether or not provoked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamzz View Post
    i still reckon they should both be punished, even if it's a fine just to set an example that this kind of behaviour should not be tolerated.
    Quote Originally Posted by kankan View Post
    BWF is sending wrong message.
    Quote Originally Posted by Loopy View Post
    This is just wrong.
    There is a bad line call, and is that a reason to throw the racket at somebody?
    A reason to protest yes. To be in an agressive behaviour, absolutely not.
    And the conclusion to all this: it's the line caller's fault that Lin Dan threw his racket. Ridiculous.
    Even in Hockey there are penalities for maligned behavior.
    i agree with the above.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    I agree that introducing international line judges would probably reduce bias, but like cooler said it won't prevent wrong line calls. Humans make errors and with the speed the shuttle travels there will always be errors.

    I don't believe it will make the quality of badminton higher though, and it will massively increase the cost of running a tournament to either the BWF or the organiser. Like we said before if you have to have 50+ linejudges flown in from around the world and suppl them accomadation you are talking paying a significant % of the total prize money out.
    yeah, for practical reasons, it is not advisable to do this. it is just to make sure the line calls are not biased but it will not ensure it is not wrong. why dont they just experiment with more camera on court so that a replay of every angle can be shown for any disputed calls. i still think that this is the best and most practical solution. and the cameras are easier to organize than humans i think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsumaranai View Post
    I don't see how that would be cheating in any form. As well, this discussion is flawed. You're all assuming that the players don't have the integrity that has been attributed to this game. You also can't determine that Lin Dan was throwing the racket toward Li Mao with malice. It may have been in the general direction, but that has no bearing. This will not really incite any abuse of policy, as there have been disreputable claims against the KBA/KO and the line judges prior to this, and complaints are not filed for all competitions, thus misbehavior in another tournament would not be judged in the same manner. This is a logical fallacy, as people are being presumptuous that it would lead to such further ill-natured conduct. The event of a certain occurence does not conclude in the likeliness of another because it may be possible, and even if it did happen, you can't prove that it was because of such an action, or that it was inevitable.
    wah.....sounds like a lawyer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsumaranai View Post
    I think that unless the player did not see the shuttle go out, then they should be the line judge, as they'll have a better perspective, and sometimes the line judges make incorrect calls. The line judges should be there to either support the player's decision or overrule it. Although the conceived flaw in that is that if the line judge has a conviction that it's out and it was not, then it would still be a bad call.
    what gives. if the line judges, who are humans, can make bad line calls, so can the players (who are also humans). when i play, sometimes i am not sure if the shuttle falls in or out because it is so close. and maybe sometimes the players see what is favourable to him or her. not saying they intend to cheat, but humans tend to see differently in different situation. that is why when the police are doing an investigation of an accident for example, there are many version of what happened.


    i do not agree that nobody got punish at all. i believe the korean BA should be heavily reprimanded for their part in the fiasco. and i also believe li mao and lin dan should also be punished. but that is out of my hands. and now it is just part of history. and we have seen two sides of this argument in many locked threads so lets not repeat it. lets just agree to disagree. and maybe we should focus more on teh future and how BWF will handle this matter. if they fail to make changes within this year and especially during the olympics, then i would say that it has failed to uphold badminton's good name in sports.

  4. #38
    Regular Member wilfredlgf's Avatar
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    Let bygones be bygones.

    The damage to reputation is going to hurt more than a fine.

  5. #39
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    I believe it was a good decision, putting the blame on the KBA for creating an environment with line judges obviously "cheating thru their teeth" in broad daylight. It created an explosive atmosphere, and players and officials who "took the law into their own hands" have commited a justifiable reaction.
    It was only a matter of time incidents like this would exlpode one day in either China or Korea, two countries that came to the edge of "provocative" mismanagement of the SS time and again.

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    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    It seems both Lin Dan's and Li Mao's acts were 'crimes of passion'
    Those are excusable, aren't they?

    In any case, the BWF is treading carefully
    Had they blamed the general conduct of the game rather than the KBA's conduct of the game, it might eventually backfire on the sport's standing.

    With the Olympics looming ahead, it makes no sense for the BWF to show the sport in any lesser light.

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    I wonder how the bwf is going to explain to Taufik if he asked "why am I being penalised in HK Open for walking out whereas it is ok to attempt to whack someone with a racket. We both complained about line calls!"??

  8. #42
    Regular Member Sgbad's Avatar
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    Does anyone has the video taufik walking out of the game? Very interested to see what the atmosphere was like.

  9. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    With the Olympics looming ahead, it makes no sense for the BWF to show the sport in any lesser light.

    exactly .

  10. #44
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    I disagree that there should have been no puishment.

    Irrespective of the provocation (bad line calls) the punishment should always be for the reaction as well. If we take football Should Zidane have not been punished for his reaction to Marco Materazzi in WC final? He could argue he was provoked and if he was provoked he would not have done it, but if reactions to provocations go unpunished then the legal process would be in dissarray.

    At the end of the day Lin Dan showed violent and potentially dangerous behaviour towards a opposing coach, in the final of a showpiece event in the badminton calendar (SS event), and for this he should have been punished.

    Unfortunately the power in badminton is with the teams and players not with the organising bodies.

  11. #45
    Regular Member huangkwokhau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by block306 View Post
    I wonder how the bwf is going to explain to Taufik if he asked "why am I being penalised in HK Open for walking out whereas it is ok to attempt to whack someone with a racket. We both complained about line calls!"??
    TH walked out as umpire ( from China) told him..." if he did not like the decision dont play..". so he left the court.......

  12. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loopy View Post
    Are you kidding?
    Don't start making assumptions that LD would have won only because he won the next two points. This is SPECULATION
    This is a speculation on my part. But after 13 pages and 220 posts of debate in the thread of "The impact of bad line calls on MSF players in KO 08 and CO 07", no one was closer to the truth than my argument: LD won the next two points and should have won the match without the biased line call. If you have problem with that we can continue the debate at http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...ad.php?t=51814. I saw you quit after just one post last time

    Quote Originally Posted by Loopy View Post
    There is a limit to how you can protest, throwing a racket and pulling out your fist shouldn't be viewed as acceptable.
    In Copenhagen Masters 2007, the shuttle was very clearly out in the second set, but was seen in by the linesmen. KJ would have won the 2nd set if it was ruled out. KJ was upset, but did you see him get into a fight? No.

    The conclusion reached by the bwf is a joke....
    If you have any problems with the BWF panel's decision on Korea Open 08 investigation, please do bring it up with BWF, not with me

  13. #47
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    I disagree that there should have been no puishment.

    Irrespective of the provocation (bad line calls) the punishment should always be for the reaction as well. If we take football Should Zidane have not been punished for his reaction to Marco Materazzi in WC final? He could argue he was provoked and if he was provoked he would not have done it, but if reactions to provocations go unpunished then the legal process would be in dissarray.

    At the end of the day Lin Dan showed violent and potentially dangerous behaviour towards a opposing coach, in the final of a showpiece event in the badminton calendar (SS event), and for this he should have been punished.

    Unfortunately the power in badminton is with the teams and players not with the organising bodies.
    Well, football's profile at the Olympics is a lot larger than badminton's.
    It'd take a very very bold IOC committee to even float the idea of dropping football from the Olympic roster of events
    Not so with badminton.

    In a potential vote on exclusion, China (and Hong Kong), Indonesia, Malaysia, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, the UK and Denmark wouldn't be enough to hold out against the rest of the sporting world. I'd imagine many countries would be quite in favour of escorting badminton out of the Games... and thereby reduce China's medal tally.

    I'd certainly agree that the BWF's decision doesn't smack of courage or firmness. However, it does reflect the concerns about the game's future in the world's highest sporting arena

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    Maybe it is just because I am in the UK, but Badminton is far higher on the agenda in OG than football. Admittedly UK dont have a team in OG, but most countries do not take the Football OG seriously. It is in effect an under 23 competition, with no prestige.

    How do the IOC view violent conduct then? would they agree that a competitor who assaults an opposing coach should be left unpunished? to me, this goes beyond an occurence that can be swept under the carpet.

    How would a Ban on LD effect Badmintons OG presence anyhow? Do the IOC like double standard organising bodies where one competitor who simply doesn't want to play a match can be punished, but a players assault can be blamed on provocation?

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    I just want to bring it up to the situation. There was not just 1 miss call. There are several miss call against LD. TV shoes they where clearly bad calls. Bias is bias. Even if there is a bias, at lease try to hide it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by block306 View Post
    I wonder how the bwf is going to explain to Taufik if he asked "why am I being penalised in HK Open for walking out whereas it is ok to attempt to whack someone with a racket. We both complained about line calls!"??
    i guess u dont understand of either incidents.
    Walkout is a clear violation specified in the bylaws.
    LD did not whacked anybody. U made it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    How would a Ban on LD effect Badmintons OG presence anyhow? Do the IOC like double standard organising bodies where one competitor who simply doesn't want to play a match can be punished, but a players assault can be blamed on provocation?
    either I or u have any idea what IOC likes. It is a private enterprise, nothing private or anything else is disclose if they feel like it.

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