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  1. #52
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    I am not saying there was no Bias, but the normal thing to do would be to punish a player, and then try to rectify the problems that caused it.

    In other sports, eg. cricket. They have a "bringing the game into disrepute" law, does badminton have such a law?

  2. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentheart View Post
    I just want to bring it up to the situation. There was not just 1 miss call. There are several miss call against LD. TV shoes they where clearly bad calls. Bias is bias. Even if there is a bias, at lease try to hide it.
    Nod. There were 4 calls overruled by the empire. I'm sure for every overruled call, they are likely 1 or 2 more missed bad calls. People have pointed fingers at LD, li mao, korea organizer, referees, line judges contributed to this incident. I like to add one more, the umpire. He should had replace the line judge immediately to show to line judges he is watching them too. Since no action was taken at all against the line judges, a message is sent to them that u can do as u please to the point of recklessly biased as they will even dare to make bad calls in the finals, including the grand finale 21-21

    To fairly resolve this incident, everyone i have listed above should be disciplined. May i say it again, bwf doesnt have the time, money, legal team, or gut to risk badminton image do that - and i didnt even brought up any international consequences that may ensue.

    A petty fine and/or suspension won't deter or solve anything here.
    Although i have being critical of bwf in many many posts before, i do believed that bwf is NOT THAT DUMB to make a big blunder decision in this case.
    Last edited by cooler; 03-15-2008 at 01:26 PM.

  3. #54
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    I am guilty, your honor. Please go easy on the canning... Or can I bribe you?

  4. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentheart View Post
    I am guilty, your honor. Please go easy on the canning... Or can I bribe you?
    hey, it worked for IOC in many occasions Maybe WE DO know what IOC likes
    Last edited by cooler; 03-15-2008 at 01:31 PM.

  5. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    hey, it worked for IOC in many occasions Maybe WE DO know what IOC likes
    No comment. You really know what I mean. look at IOC skating...

  6. #57
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    I am not saying I disagree with you here, but were all the overules from the same linejudge?

    And if not, then in defence of the umpire they couldn't be expected to change all of them, and in any case, they were likely to be changed for other potentially biased linejudges anyway.

    I don't think the Linejudges can be punished - they are probably volunteers and have little responsibility - it would be like punishing the ball boys at a football game.

    Umpires are always unlikely to be punished since it will undermine any fture performances.

    I agree that a fine or suspension would likely not have any effect, but the ruling seems to be that LD/LM were entitled to do what they did.

  7. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdwood
    This is a speculation on my part. But after 13 pages and 220 posts of debate in the thread of "The impact of bad line calls on MSF players in KO 08 and CO 07", no one was closer to the truth than my argument: LD won the next two points and should have won the match without the biased line call. If you have problem with that we can continue the debate at http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...ad.php?t=51814. I saw you quit after just one post last time
    No you're not closer to the truth. Speculation IS speculation. No one is right nor wrong, no one can predict solely because he won the two next points.
    If there wasn't any bad line call, if there wasn't any umpire, if bla bla bla...

    Here is another IF: If the scoring was 22-21 for LD, LHI would have won the next point because that's what he did in the second set AND third set.... if if if...
    But that is pure speculation on my part...

    I can continue like that, but speculation is nothing more than speculation, and it's neither right nor wrong... it's speculation.

    There is a reason why I don't continue arguing in an endless argument

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post

    With the Olympics looming ahead, it makes no sense for the BWF to show the sport in any lesser light.
    So are you saying it is better to make a decision based on cosmetics?
    What happened to ethics and sportsmanship? Does it mean you have to hide every hideous things in badminton to please the Olympics? Badminton is already programmed in the Olympics.
    What about cycling and all the drugs? Is it okay to hide there is drug use just so cycling can be in the Olympics?
    Last edited by Loopy; 03-15-2008 at 02:08 PM.

  8. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loopy View Post
    So are you saying it is better to make a decision based on cosmetics?
    What happened to ethics and sportsmanship? Does it mean you have to hide every hideous things in badminton to please the Olympics? Badminton is already programmed in the Olympics.
    What about cycling and all the drugs? Is it okay to hide there is drug use just so cycling can be in the Olympics?
    u still dont understand. In cycling sports, drug use DOES harm olympic cycling. In your case, I think u want to jail or fine all jaywalkers too as this would make the world better for us.

  9. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    I am not saying I disagree with you here, but were all the overules from the same linejudge?

    And if not, then in defence of the umpire they couldn't be expected to change all of them, and in any case, they were likely to be changed for other potentially biased linejudges anyway.

    I don't think the Linejudges can be punished - they are probably volunteers and have little responsibility - it would be like punishing the ball boys at a football game.

    Umpires are always unlikely to be punished since it will undermine any fture performances.

    I agree that a fine or suspension would likely not have any effect, but the ruling seems to be that LD/LM were entitled to do what they did.
    hmm, it seem biased to punish only certain class of people and not others.

    In this case, the umpire should weigh in the frequency and blatantness of the bad calls. For ex at 08 Korea Open. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCdUgLuRTF8 i would replace that line judge even if that was his/her first bad call. The bad call was blatantly INTENTIONAL. The umpire even did a ''
    Last edited by cooler; 03-15-2008 at 02:26 PM.

  10. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    hmm, it seem biased to punish only certain class of people and not others.
    I agree, but the Players & linejudges are the rolemodels and it is their responsibility to be ambassadors of their game. This added responsibility should extend to taking responsibility of their actions where their sports it placed at risk of looking "unruly"

    There is of course no laws for this, it is a "moral code" of my own creation, but it does exist in other peoples minds as well I am sure

  11. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    I agree, but the Players & linejudges are the rolemodels and it is their responsibility to be ambassadors of their game. This added responsibility should extend to taking responsibility of their actions where their sports it placed at risk of looking "unruly"

    There is of course no laws for this, it is a "moral code" of my own creation, but it does exist in other peoples minds as well I am sure
    yes but why u and others only wanted to punish the player and not the linejudge if they hold such high moral responsibility?

    We coming back to full circle, if bwf gonna dish out punishment, bwf should punish them all. Being volunteers dont exempt them from misconduct even if it's moral code. Volunteers have been removed or disciplined for misconduct before outside badminton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    u still dont understand. In cycling sports, drug use DOES harm olympic cycling. In your case, I think u want to jail or fine all jaywalkers too as this would make the world better for us.
    You still don't understand.
    What people will judge upon is the integrity of the game, not the looks.
    The fact there are measures to counterattack and punish drug use in cycling is all the more beneficial for the sport, even more for the Olympics.
    What do you think would be the equivalent judging made by the BWF MIRT on cycling ?
    Just a hypothesis: minimize drug use, not punish the cyclist, punish the organizers for not making necessary precautions to prevent cyclist using drugs. Don't you find this ridiculours?
    You want more analogies? What about maligned violent behaviors in Ice Hockey (not talking about fights) ? What would the BWF do? Not blame the player for his misconduct, but the referee ? Do you remember the Bertuzzi case ? Or one of the first expulsion ? Maybe you need a refresher on what to do in these cases:

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Billy Coutu was the first player banned from the NHL for life when, in 1927, he attacked referee Jerry Laflamme in a Stanley Cup game between the Boston Bruins and Ottawa Senators - in which several players complained about the officiating - supposedly at the request of Bruins coach Art Ross. NHL president Frank Calder, the League's first president, expelled Coutu from the NHL for life on March 29, 1929.
    And you are making extreme statements when you surmise I'd fine all the jaywalkers. No I'd only fine the jaywalkers with violent behaviors.

  13. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    Being volunteers dont exempt them from misconduct even if it's moral code. Volunteers have been removed or disciplined for misconduct before outside badminton.
    No but I doubt they sign an agreement prior to working as a linejudge that sets out their responsibilities and the punishments for this (probably it is just exclusion). Like you said the legal clout of WBF wouldn't want to waste time doing so.

    Anyhow I think we will have to disagree on this. The reaction IMO should still be punished, the provocation should be dealt with, but WBF have stated they are doing so.

    My real problem with WBF is that they seem to be saying what LD/LM did was fine, it was the LJ's fault. IMO this is not the case.

  14. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loopy View Post
    You still don't understand.
    What people will judge upon is the integrity of the game, not the looks.
    The fact there are measures to counterattack and punish drug use in cycling is all the more beneficial for the sport, even more for the Olympics.
    What do you think would be the equivalent judging made by the BWF MIRT on cycling ?
    Just a hypothesis: minimize drug use, not punish the cyclist, punish the organizers for not making necessary precautions to prevent cyclist using drugs. Don't you find this ridiculours?
    You want more analogies? What about maligned violent behaviors in Ice Hockey (not talking about fights) ? What would the BWF do? Not blame the player for his misconduct, but the referee ? Do you remember the Bertuzzi case ? Or one of the first expulsion ? Maybe you need a refresher on what to do in these cases:

    And you are making extreme statements when you surmise I'd fine all the jaywalkers. No I'd only fine the jaywalkers with violent behaviors.
    Your examples don't support your argument but rather it actually reinforces mine. Since there are many many cases from tennis, hockey, basketball, football where huge penalities were levied against the violators, how come brawl, fights and other obvious infraction are still common in those sports, and not in badminton? Have drug use subsided in cycling or in other known drug taking sports?
    Last edited by cooler; 03-15-2008 at 03:56 PM.

  15. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    Your examples don't support your argument but rather it actually reinforces mine. Since there are many many cases from tennis, hockey, basketball, football where huge penalities were levied against the violators, how come brawl, fights and other obvious infraction are still common in those sports, and not in badminton? Have drug use subsided in cycling or in other known drug taking sports?
    Wow. You really have a knack for seeing things the way you'd like them to see.
    Are you saying it is OKAY to have fights in badminton or have an agressive behavior in badminton?
    Are you saying is was okay for Bertuzzi to hit the other guy on the head? Because if it is okay for you, it was a big NO NO for the NHL.
    Even Hockey which is known for its violence has sets its limit.
    It's not because the other sports tolerate such behavior that badminton should.
    You want to see a sport that absolutely does not tolerate that kind of manner? Golf. Pro golfers are true gentleman, and won't get their feelings get a hold of them. Because if they do, they will get a very taxing punishment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loopy View Post
    Wow. You really have a knack for seeing things the way you'd like them to see.
    Are you saying it is OKAY to have fights in badminton or have an agressive behavior in badminton?
    Are you saying is was okay for Bertuzzi to hit the other guy on the head? Because if it is okay for you, it was a big NO NO for the NHL.
    Even Hockey which is known for its violence has sets its limit.
    It's not because the other sports tolerate such behavior that badminton should.
    You want to see a sport that absolutely does not tolerate that kind of manner? Golf. Pro golfers are true gentleman, and won't get their feelings get a hold of them. Because if they do, they will get a very taxing punishment.
    obviously u haven't read or considered my previous posts. I rather not repeat myself on my position. Bottom line is, ~72% dont see it as bwf. Like most polls, majority joe public is often...wrong or doesnt see the big picture enough to make a proper judgement. Look US election of bush, look at decision to go to war in iraq, look at tannepak's post about amercian view on chinese goods, etc etc
    Last edited by cooler; 03-15-2008 at 04:57 PM.

  17. #68
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    Question No punishment for LD after incidance inKO 08

    BWF have annouced that they would not punish LD for his rough action in court during KO final againts LHI....

    Please comment.....

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