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  1. #18
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    like i said before..all that LYB care is to win gold medals..at all costs!!China Badminton Associatons might be proud to have him as a head coach..he leads chinese badminton to the top level..but when he uses everything to win,that brings more critics from both public n media.

  2. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sumbadder View Post
    you guys talk like LYB is fixing matches because he's some evil villain with a vendetta against the badminton world that he's trying to fulfill. The fact is, he is getting pressure from his higher-ups to obtain as many golds as possible so that in the end, China comes out the huge winner at OG 08 instead of the US.
    i agree. i really believe that there is probably some powerful people putting pressure on LYB to win as many medals as possible, at any cost. and not for the greater good of himself or his players but for the country in general. If China can win 5 gold medals and a whole bunch of silver and bronze in badminton, that is 5 gold medals + more taken away from the United States (who seem to be their biggest medal competitor for 2008). I think that if China doesn't win more medals than the US come august, then i think that they might be a little embarrassed. In the grand scheme of things LYB is just a small pawn in the whole game.
    personally, i don't really think we can blame LYB, he is probably taking orders. like come on, he is human too. why wouldn't the head coach of the chinese national badminton team want to see his best players play their best against each other in the final of the all england championships??!?!?! doesn't make sense, something is up.

  3. #20
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    Of course LYB is not solely responsible. But I don't think he is only passively "taking orders" either. He likes to boast about his team, saying his players are the world's best in every event and blah blah. This definitely encourage the officials to put more pressure on him -- since his players are so strong and the previous losses are due to things like bad wind, bad line judge, etc., it's reasonable to require him to bring home 5 golds since the stadium in OG 08 is perfect and there cannot be any line judge problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by super__gao View Post
    i agree. i really believe that there is probably some powerful people putting pressure on LYB to win as many medals as possible, at any cost. and not for the greater good of himself or his players but for the country in general. If China can win 5 gold medals and a whole bunch of silver and bronze in badminton, that is 5 gold medals + more taken away from the United States (who seem to be their biggest medal competitor for 2008). I think that if China doesn't win more medals than the US come august, then i think that they might be a little embarrassed. In the grand scheme of things LYB is just a small pawn in the whole game.
    personally, i don't really think we can blame LYB, he is probably taking orders. like come on, he is human too. why wouldn't the head coach of the chinese national badminton team want to see his best players play their best against each other in the final of the all england championships??!?!?! doesn't make sense, something is up.

  4. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    Of course LYB is not solely responsible. But I don't think he is only passively "taking orders" either. He likes to boast about his team, saying his players are the world's best in every event and blah blah. This definitely encourage the officials to put more pressure on him -- since his players are so strong and the previous losses are due to things like bad wind, bad line judge, etc., it's reasonable to require him to bring home 5 golds since the stadium in OG 08 is perfect and there cannot be any line judge problems.
    I think everyone is still missing the point: LYB's JOB is to be the head coach of team China and produce results. As concerned members of the badminton community we want to see what's best for the sport, but he is doing his job which is not to promote the sport but to bring in the golds. Obviously as fans we don't want to see things run like a business but the sports industry is an industry and to expect that people won't run it as such is completely absurd.

  5. #22
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    A business man's job is to make money. If one business man told his supervisor he can make one million in a year but in fact he can only guarantee 900,000, does that mean he should rob or cheat to get the remaining 100,000 and ppl should not criticize him? I don't think so.

    In fact, it's interesting to compare LYB's comments and TSF's comments when LD lost. After LD lost to PSH, TSF (in charge of LD at that time. LYB asked him to help) commented that LD is in form, but he lost because PSH played very well. Did we ever hear LYB say similar things? No. He is even reluctant to admit that his players are not in form. Most of the times it's the stadium or audience or wind blahblah.

    So LYB wants ppl to view his team as invincible. Thus it's only reasonable that his team is indeed required to be invincible and bring 5 golds home.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumbadder View Post
    I think everyone is still missing the point: LYB's JOB is to be the head coach of team China and produce results. As concerned members of the badminton community we want to see what's best for the sport, but he is doing his job which is not to promote the sport but to bring in the golds. Obviously as fans we don't want to see things run like a business but the sports industry is an industry and to expect that people won't run it as such is completely absurd.
    Last edited by ye333; 03-16-2008 at 06:27 PM.

  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    A business man's job is to make money. If one business man told his supervisor he can make one million in a year but in fact he can only guarantee 900,000, does that mean he should rob or cheat to get the remaining 100,000 and ppl should not criticize him? I don't think so.
    i think u r quite naive in this regard. There are plenty of plenty of plenty robbing going on in the business world. You just dont hear about them, or better yet, you and even pro businessman are completely blind to them. A current example: subprime mess. This wasn't an accident. Robbing start from the gullibe home buyers and all the way up to the blind CEO/CFO's. After that, the leaders, the ones u voted in, (bush, Ben Bernanke) prints money and drop interest rates, then bail outs from the gov't. Where do those monies come from? the innocents people through increase taxes and your worthless US bucks.
    Last edited by cooler; 03-16-2008 at 07:01 PM.

  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibe_K View Post
    Yeah rite...."for the greater good of China". How cheap and convenient it is to use that as an excuse. If that is the case, every coach can say the same thing "for the greater good of..." some bs and to fix any match in sports.
    we can't be sure of that. Other coaches dont have the line up of good players like lyb have to work with. In term of tournament tactic, it is fair game IMO. In term of enjoyment to the fans, it is not fair. That is why hard for BWF to stop this so call fixing. It is very difficult to write rules to stop game fixing. I will stop here.

  8. #25
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    Maybe LYB is a strategist, not an entertainer. He is more of a leader than a popular hero, and in that role of course he has made many enemies. But at the end of the day, what matters is the silverware (gold medals and honour) you bring to your country.

  9. #26
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    It seems to me that LYB is looking out for the best interest of his country and his team over the spirit of the Olympics, the badminton world, and complete fairness to other players. I am not saying that is right, but at least, I can understand why he does what he does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    we can't be sure of that. Other coaches dont have the line up of good players like lyb have to work with. In term of tournament tactic, it is fair game IMO. In term of enjoyment to the fans, it is not fair. That is why hard for BWF to stop this so call fixing. It is very difficult to write rules to stop game fixing. I will stop here.
    I don't know if you can say it as "fair game". Justified doesn't mean is fair vice versa. It may be fair and justify for someone but not other. Standard value of conscience is the thing that we all have to up hold. Although it can be different for each group of people. But in this case, I belief that everyone agree it is not right. May be justified for some.
    The word match fixing itself has a lot to say. Of course is hard to stop unless everyone has the same standard value of what is right and wrong.
    In the case of what LYB (not sure is him ), everyone know it is wrong in some degree. But and if are the reasons for justifying the deed.
    In my opinion, someone has forgot that it is entertainment. In LYB case, he is not saving the country from any disaster or shame by doing so but in contrary he might do damage to the nation image.

  11. #28
    Regular Member phaarix's Avatar
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    I tend to respect countries over fair play than their medal collection. If it comes along with a bad image (and it does), I hardly think it's doing much for China. It's also completely unfair to the players in China. Either they have to simply give up a tournament without a fight. A totally wasted opportunity... Or they get an easy win. And if that win is in the finals, I hardly think they'll look back at that tournament and think "I really did deserve that gold!".

    It's like "professional wrestling" (whatever it's called). Some of the matches are just an act. Who would want to win a tournament in such a situation if it's really no different than being the so called "heavyweight champion of the world!!"... (if you ignore the previous matches of course ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    i think u r quite naive in this regard. There are plenty of plenty of plenty robbing going on in the business world. You just dont hear about them, or better yet, you and even pro businessman are completely blind to them. A current example: subprime mess. This wasn't an accident. Robbing start from the gullibe home buyers and all the way up to the blind CEO/CFO's. After that, the leaders, the ones u voted in, (bush, Ben Bernanke) prints money and drop interest rates, then bail outs from the gov't. Where do those monies come from? the innocents people through increase taxes and your worthless US bucks.
    May be that's why, I have sympathy with the concept of Socialism which I still very naive in.

  13. #30
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    Please read my post again. Do you think ppl should not criticize them? My point is, you cannot say, I have such pressure blahblah and then walk away critic-free with the money.

    What I am against is this: some ppl said because LYB has such pressure therefore we as badminton fans should not criticize what he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    i think u r quite naive in this regard. There are plenty of plenty of plenty robbing going on in the business world. You just dont hear about them, or better yet, you and even pro businessman are completely blind to them. A current example: subprime mess. This wasn't an accident. Robbing start from the gullibe home buyers and all the way up to the blind CEO/CFO's. After that, the leaders, the ones u voted in, (bush, Ben Bernanke) prints money and drop interest rates, then bail outs from the gov't. Where do those monies come from? the innocents people through increase taxes and your worthless US bucks.

  14. #31
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    Well, there is a high probability China will get most of the gold medals.
    Reasons:
    1) LYB and match fixing
    2) Beijing and local line judges.... unless there will be independent line judges...

  15. #32
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    Default A bit off topic-WWE??..

    Quote Originally Posted by phaarix View Post
    ...
    It's like "professional wrestling" (whatever it's called). Some of the matches are just an act. Who would want to win a tournament in such a situation if it's really no different than being the so called "heavyweight champion of the world!!"... (if you ignore the previous matches of course ).
    ..actually it's all an "act", none real, yet they make it seems so real. All shows have been "fixed", pre-planned and pre-arranged. And, in spite of it all, people are still watching and shelling out monies to watch them without any complaints.

    A bit different than in badminton. When there are some "match fixing issues/complaints/suspicions", in any badminton matches, people will come, debate even condemn whether it's ethical or sportsmanlike to do so or not?..

  16. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loopy View Post
    Well, there is a high probability China will get most of the gold medals.
    Reasons:
    1) LYB and match fixing
    2) Beijing and local line judges.... unless there will be independent line judges...
    i see it opposite.
    If LYB is successful in his alleged 'fixing' results from the SS, and got his OG seeding wish order, there is low incentive to fix the games in the OG. If lyb can influence the line judges and playing around with match fixing at the OG, lyb wont be doing his alleged diry deeds in the SS. Again, the joe pubic usually guess wrong of what is gonna to happen

  17. #34
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    The incentive is always there... Until China secure the Gold. In particular note that it's not possible for China to fill all 4 spots in SF.

    Just recall what happened in WS in both 00 and 04 OGs.

    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    i see it opposite.
    If LYB is successful in his alleged 'fixing' results from the SS, and got his OG seeding wish order, there is low incentive to fix the games in the OG. If lyb can influence the line judges and playing around with match fixing at the OG, lyb wont be doing his alleged diry deeds in the SS. Again, the joe pubic usually guess wrong of what is gonna to happen

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