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  1. #86
    Regular Member phaarix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Dont hold grudges if you cant compete fairly with CHN team. They have the luxury to "manipulate" the number of entries for CHN, and that's because the rest of the world cannot match them in all departments, esp MS.

    If our LCW, Yoyo and WCH are top 4 in the world, do you think BAM wont do as what LYB is practising now? C'on, it's the MEDALS that count, not ethical or sportmanship. In 10-20yrs down the road, we ONLY remember the winners, NOT those "sportmanship" players.
    I really don't agree... And it's not exactly "me" competing with the China team . I'm from New Zealand... New Zealand simply does not "compete" in high level tournaments (unless you count our one-off bronze at WC...). So I don't feel I'm biased by country in the slightest. The point is they SHOULDN'T have the luxury. Bending the rules (if there's not a rule against it, there should be...) and manipulating results, in some ways spoiling a tournament is totally unethical and personally I DO respect the players with the best attitudes (don't misread - I'm not getting at Chinese player's attitudes here) and I'm sure will personally remember them just as much as the winners...

    Though now I think about it I'm not sure I understand your post completely. Are you defending China's tactics? Or are you simply asking people not to hold a grudge? Because I don't see how anyone even remotely interested in badminton's future could defend this disgraceful tactic...
    Last edited by phaarix; 03-18-2008 at 09:28 PM.

  2. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by phaarix View Post
    Though now I think about it I'm not sure I understand your post completely. Are you defending China's tactics? Or are you simply asking people not to hold a grudge? Because I don't see how anyone even remotely interested in badminton's future could defend this disgraceful tactic...
    Dont get me wrong, I will NEVER EVER respect a person like LYB but I do understand that he will do EVERYTHING WITHIN HIS POWER to win as many GOLDs for CHN as possible. That's his top priority, isnt it? Ask Misbun or Rexy, what would they do if Msia have at three MS or MD in top4 now, what will he do? In sports, it's all about WINNINGs/MEDALs, and they (coaches, players, etc...) will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to achieve that goal.

    I am a BIG Msia BOLEH fan and I'd hold grudges whenever our LCW or MD lost but I dont blame LYB's dirty tactics for match fixings. I only hope one day LCW will beat three of them enroute to win the OG GOLD (wishful thinking? )

    Actually, we should learn from LYB on how to exploit "systems" without breaking the rules/laws. I'm truly learning it now...


    Msia Boleh!!! LCW Boleh!!!

  3. #88
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    Between national pride & sportmanship, LYB chooses the former, very realistic. Humanity is his last concern I think & every team members are "disposable", including LD if he is not productive comparatively.
    This summer, his team has to capture at least 3 golds in Beijing otherwise his "butt" will be off the chair of head coach. Politics are dirty everywhere & China is no exception.
    Therefore, if I were him, I think I would do the same too even though I don't like him at all. Nothing will be changed.
    To eliminate this kind of "bull-****", qualifying spots should be increased accordingly so that enough spots can be allocated to each country or region otherwise this kind of bull will be going on forever & this kind of argumentative discussions will be continued every 4 years.

  4. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by markham player View Post
    To eliminate this kind of "bull-****", qualifying spots should be increased accordingly so that enough spots can be allocated to each country or region otherwise this kind of bull will be going on forever & this kind of argumentative discussions will be continued every 4 years.
    The question is: how many is enough? And who's to decide what's enough

    China was also well-known for fixing matches in Table-Tennis practice.
    However, that practice seemed to have been abandoned ever since there's a past incident which was highlighted...(maybe fans from China know more about these things). Right now, matches involving Chinese players in TT are hard-fought and sometimes, the favorites may end up losing too Again, correct me if I am wrong here.

    2 direct entries per countries for players in the top 30 I think and other entries have to be gained through qualification tourneys. This is the first step that badminton should follow, for Olympics qualification.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yen_saw View Post
    I agree, i am not on anyone's side. I would do the same too if i am the coach, it is a dog eat dog world out here and only the non-competant lose. I am just refering to what other people were stated here. It is all depends on what you think best fit the situation. I would be a fool not to manipulate the system if it is not against the rule.
    dog eat dog IS NOT allowed in china, that would a waste of food

  6. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    2 direct entries per countries for players in the top 30 I think and other entries have to be gained through qualification tourneys. This is the first step that badminton should follow, for Olympics qualification.
    I think two entries for each category should be enforced. If this is the case, LYB has no motivation to match-fix. Well, it's once in every four yrs and this yr is crucial than others

  7. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    This sounds worse than what ms142 summarised.( Why don't you just post the article here?)
    Question is: Why would CHN, with its seeming domination, need to take advantage? Lack of confidence in its players?
    do u whines about rich people too? They r so rich, why do they need to keep on making more money Go tell them they lack confidence too
    Last edited by cooler; 03-18-2008 at 10:58 PM.

  8. #93
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    What kind of "national pride" would China gain through medals obtained with the help of match-fixing? Did Koreans gain "national pride" through medals won with the help of biased line judges?

    LYB is choosing his own career over sportsmanship. No "national pride" in this equation here.

    Quote Originally Posted by markham player View Post
    Between national pride & sportmanship, LYB chooses the former, very realistic. Humanity is his last concern I think & every team members are "disposable", including LD if he is not productive comparatively.
    This summer, his team has to capture at least 3 golds in Beijing otherwise his "butt" will be off the chair of head coach. Politics are dirty everywhere & China is no exception.
    Therefore, if I were him, I think I would do the same too even though I don't like him at all. Nothing will be changed.
    To eliminate this kind of "bull-****", qualifying spots should be increased accordingly so that enough spots can be allocated to each country or region otherwise this kind of bull will be going on forever & this kind of argumentative discussions will be continued every 4 years.

  9. #94
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    Well, if the rich people make more money through illegal or "gray" ways (for example, bribe the government officials), people should "whine" about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    do u whines about rich people too? They r so rich, why do they need to keep on making more money Go tell them they lack confidence too

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    This sounds worse than what ms142 summarised.( Why don't you just post the article here?)
    Question is: Why would CHN, with its seeming domination, need to take advantage? Lack of confidence in its players?
    Only a fool will not trying to maximize the number of players allow in the Olympic games. It has nothing to do with the confidence level of the player. Any country would like to put three players in each event if possible, the question is, are they capable of doing it? Even a country has three players in top four position, i am sure they will try to make it as top 4 so they have more alternative to fielding which player. You can look at it as taking advantage, but for chinese team it appear to be a strategy and also an opportunity to field more players, thus better chances of getting gold medal.

    I wasn't summarize the article, i was only giving my opinion after reading that article.

  11. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    dog eat dog IS NOT allowed in china, that would a waste of food
    It could be worst

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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    What kind of "national pride" would China gain through medals obtained with the help of match-fixing? Did Koreans gain "national pride" through medals won with the help of biased line judges?

    LYB is choosing his own career over sportsmanship. No "national pride" in this equation here.
    "National pride" is defined by the number of gold that country is capable of accumulating. I have mentioned it before (at least the second time) that it is all depend on how you look at it. It could be a strategy or unethical approach towards your goal. As for me, it is not against the rule unless BWF seriously looking at setting it a rule. Now when an athelete is tested positive for steroids on 100m dash for example, now that is what I called a breach in your National pride, which is when you broke the law.
    Last edited by yen_saw; 03-18-2008 at 11:33 PM.

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    There is an official definition of "national pride"? I don't think so, and I disagree with your "definition".

    Your definition is also against the traditional value system of Chinese culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by yen_saw View Post
    "National pride" is defined by the number of gold that country is capable of accumulating. I have mentioned it before (at least the second time) that it is all depend on how you look at it. It could be a strategy or unethical approach towards your goal. As for me, it is not against the rule unless BWF seriously looking at setting it a rule. Now when an athelete is tested positive for steroids on 100m dash for example, now that is what I called a breach in your National pride, which is when you broke the law.
    Last edited by ye333; 03-19-2008 at 12:31 AM.

  14. #99
    Regular Member phaarix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Dont get me wrong, I will NEVER EVER respect a person like LYB but I do understand that he will do EVERYTHING WITHIN HIS POWER to win as many GOLDs for CHN as possible. That's his top priority, isnt it? Ask Misbun or Rexy, what would they do if Msia have at three MS or MD in top4 now, what will he do? In sports, it's all about WINNINGs/MEDALs, and they (coaches, players, etc...) will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to achieve that goal.

    I am a BIG Msia BOLEH fan and I'd hold grudges whenever our LCW or MD lost but I dont blame LYB's dirty tactics for match fixings. I only hope one day LCW will beat three of them enroute to win the OG GOLD (wishful thinking? )

    Actually, we should learn from LYB on how to exploit "systems" without breaking the rules/laws. I'm truly learning it now...


    Msia Boleh!!! LCW Boleh!!!
    I'm glad I added that last bit then. I've done that so much before... written out a whole post only to decide not to click submit in case I missed the point . Well I unfortunately can't honestly say I've never exploited anything myself .

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    Quote Originally Posted by phaarix View Post
    .......
    Though now I think about it I'm not sure I understand your post completely. Are you defending China's tactics? Or are you simply asking people not to hold a grudge? Because I don't see how anyone even remotely interested in badminton's future could defend this disgraceful tactic...
    This should directed to Birdwood. Or if I can ask Birdwood, what is your stand in this issues ? Do you think we are wasting our time ?

  16. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjoe View Post
    This should directed to Birdwood. Or if I can ask Birdwood, what is your stand in this issues ? Do you think we are wasting our time ?
    Birdwood's stance: "this thing has been discussed so many times over and over again. And the ppl who complain (I am one of the culprit) don't offer any constructive comments --> no points discussing it further."

    Please do correct me if I am wrong here

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