Dear all BC friends! Greetings! Hope you are as excited as we are about the upcoming Adult Nationals starting this Friday, April 4th - Sunday, April 6th!! Please find "THE DRAWS" in the attachment enclosed which was released by USA Badminton on April 1st. Thank you and Hope to see you all at Adult Nationals at GGBC 1, 190 Constitution Drive, Menlo Park, CA 94025. If you have any questions please call us at 650 838 9318! Best Regards, GG Management!
^^Thanks for posting the draws..^^ ..here's my forecast on the possible Finalists, barring any injuries or pull-outs, after skimming through the draws: MS - Raju and Howard (back to defend his title from last yr). WS - Joo Hyun Lee (Johanna), Mona and Lili will battle it out @ the top half for a spot in the Final; while Lauren Todt will be waiting. WD - The top 2 seeds to meet; almost an automatic walk-in. MD - The top 2 seeds to meet. XD - This is the most interesting one; Howard and Bob will play with new XD partner. But wouldn't be surprised to see the top seed in the Final. Good luck to all the players and for those following/watching, enjoy the matches!!
Most intriguing The last time Johanna and Lili played in the UCB / GG Open in October 2007, EVERYONE in the gym was GASPING and HOLDING their breath cos they both nearly had heart attacks. It was far more adrenaline pumping game for the AUDIENCE cos it was TOOOO intense and both were so tired and fighting thru till the 3rd match and the squeezing, literally the last drop out of themselves for the last excruciating points! I'd never seen Lili turn BLUE like that and Johanna was fighting soooo hard and after maybe a felt-like-forever more than 1 and how many hours, Lili WON. Mona also fought it out with Lili beforehand. I'd never even seen such determination in the International Opens. Really had to hand it to them that time. It was sportsmanship at it's toughest and most admirable. I'm sure they will surely put in the same effort this time! I will be intriguing for both audience and players! Sally
haha. now that the draw is out. Chris and I were like when we saw that we drew Lili, Johanna and Mona on the same half. it was all done according to regulation and according to the dice so we just said "tough draw". and lucky draw for Lauren who with some fight can end up in the finals against one of the 3 ladies. there are some early strong player match up. but overall the draw is fairly even and we should see a whole weekend of good matches. i should be there from 2-3pm onwards. look forward to watching and photographing the matches!
A bit surprised.. ..i just double checked, and a bit surprised not to see Eva Lee's along with Mesinee's names in the draws...Anyone knows the reason for their absence??kwun??..Are they preparing for the upcoming Uber Cup??.. Oh, btw, i missed the other pair in the WD event, i don't know why, but I think Johanna Lee & Mona Santoso have a great chance to reach the Final and win it all...
hello sally, christ and kwun. this is the second times, i read the WS draw like that. Lauren Todt was put into a simple and non-balance draws!!! the reason is Christ is not familiar with the Tournament Software. Firstly, I wonder USAB got that licience but their official not to use it, is it a practise in the Referee Group of people ? US open, last year Adult National also using the software. Secondly, I wonder how you guys process the draw according to the general tournament regulation of USAB, such as the seeds(who determine how many seeds or shadow seeds used in a draw), the ranking committee(any one), bye and geographical distribution(state, clubs etc). Thirdly, referee is to overlook the process and see if the draw is unbalance, his duty is to advice to have a re-draw. Please read regulations from WBF also. If the referee not doing this, that means he did his job badly!! willy
WS draw Yap, the WS draw seems uneven on the top half. In January, while the USA team trial, WS draw did the same thing - all favor to Laruan, now it happened again. Does the Referer should do something to make the draw be fair?
That has nothing to do with Tournament Software. If players aren't seeded, it would randomly place them just like anything else would, and it might result in unbalanced draws. Your objection is to the seeding method, which is a completely different issue.
how many seeds used in a draw, (any shadow?) is one of the problem. but another thing is - how to distrubute the players between clubs and state, what they choose, how they choose BY HAND. what is the process.... according to the USAB rules ??? remember , they did it by HAND, not using the s/w. i don't think s/w has those problems !!! willy
willywilly, firstly, you seems to think that a computer made draw will somehow magically makes the draw exactly the way you wanted it to look like. this is simply untrue. as long as the draws made by hand and computer follow the same regulation, then it may also come up with the same draw. the regulation, which as you pointed out, involved seeds, shadow seeds, ranking and geographical distribution, have all be followed in this draw. i was personally there to see to that it happened. the current USA ranking is as follows: 1. Eva Lee 2. Shannon Pohl 3. Johannah Lee 4. Lauren Todt 5. Ruth Menchaca 6. Lili Zhou 7. Jennifer Coleman 8. Kuei-Ya Chen 9. Jamie Subandhi 10. Rena Wang 11. Tiffanie Kimura 12. Cee Ketpura 13. Rulan Yeh 14. Mona Santoso IIRC, the top 4 seeds are Johanna, Lauren, Ruth and Lili. and that why they are placed in the 4 quarters in that fashion. Lili although a strong player, is not ranked as high as Lauren. Mona, although also a strong player, is not seeded as she has not played enough events so her ranking is lower. the regulation can only deal with objective measures like rankings but not subjective measures like the perceived strength of the players. you will see the same thing in international tournament, a good example would be Taufik, Taufik is seen to be a top skilled player but he seldom occupy a seeded position as his ranking is lower than others. as for Mona drawing into the same half as Lili / Johanna, that's just simply bad luck, it was done randomly via picking a player out of a hat. this is what is draw is about, random placement. i believe you understand that part. to conclude, the draws are made according to regulation. you can take a look at the copy from USAB if you have any doubts: http://www.usabadminton.org/page.asp?page=Rules of the Game
Fair is fair. I, too, was surprised to see the unbalanced draw in the WS. However, as Kwun stated below, he was there to witness the draw so I believe (as should every BCer), with all my heart, there was no foul play, just "luck of the draw". So, I am in 100% support of the draw, however "unfortunate" it may be. Finally, the post below is logical and validates the process. Kudos to Chris, Kwun and the governing bodies!
Kwun, firstly i am not juicetalk. I do not know why you post the above message ? Secondly, I have no contest about the truthfulness of how you made the draws. Thirdly, It is an unbalance draw. Everyone see it and you also have the same feeling ! Finally, it is a National Championships, it involving some money, is it fair for lock out any two of the best players from the final ? Actually there is four good players in top half any from the top can beat the botton half. Referee always has the power to do a re-draw in such a condition. The points is left to the Tournament Director weder they do it or not. That is why every tournament, there should be a manager meeting before started. willy
you know, i know, now everybody knows. thanks! yes, it is an unbalanced draw according to perceived strength of the players. however, it is a fair and balanced draw according to the regulation and ranking of the players. again, the regulation says draw are done according to the players ranking, and not according to your own perception. you wanted it to be done according to regulation, now here it is done according to regulation. can you quote from the USAB regulation which states what you said above? i just re-read the whole thing and i cannot find it. here is the regulation again for your convenience: http://www.usabadminton.org/page.asp?page=Rules%20of%20the%20Game for a draw to be fair, it is to be made once and only once. if a draw is to be made and re-made in order to favor the positioning of some players, i would call that an unfair draw.
in our community here, since the draw shows up, there were quite a bit ppl talking about. That is why I open my account here to reflect some of the points. Some one might come from a long distance and prepare for the game long time. Is it frustrated, if they were the one, or they are discouraged. A sucessful tournament or not, it is depending on the Tournament Director how to manage. (I don't know Mr. Kwun is one of the Director or not, no objection and contest). If there is a hole, there should be fixed. Please read the first line USA Badminton uses the Badminton World Federation's Law of Badminton That is it. Thank you ! willy
i suggest you would either direct them to this discussion for the proper explanation, or tell them the explanation as written here. the key is that the draw and seeding is done according to the USAB national rankings, and according to the USAB Tournament Regulation and not according to every individual's perceived strength of each of the players. personally, i understand that there will be some talk about the draw. however, the gist is that since this is a national championship tournament, it must be done according to the regulation, and it was. i am not the director, i was the witness to the draw who was physically present when the draw was made. Chris Lawrence was the one conducting the draw and he is the Tournament Director. again, i understand the frustration. however, it is not possible to make a draw that will satisfy everyone's desired positioning. the regulation says the draw must be done a certain way, and as long as it is done that way, it is fair. if you do have dispute in the way the regulation is laid out, i suggest you write to USAB to suggest an alternative. i am afraid you might have misunderstood what "Law of Badminton" is about. "Law of Badminton" do not dictate how a tournament is run, but instead, dictates how a game of badminton is run, things like what services are legal, where the lines are, etc. the "Law of Badminton" itself is a great reading, btw, but it is out of the scope of this particular discussion. for the 3rd time.. the Tournament Regulation is listed in the page here: http://www.usabadminton.org/page.asp?page=Rules of the Game
Wow Goodness, what arguments about the Draw . I'm just wondering, say.. if Tony Gunawan could make it for this tournament ...wouldn't ANYone who plays against him be up against a tough opponent because say if he played with Howard Bach, which together, they beat Chandra and Sigit, World champions over many years, what do you think might happen? SO.. should Tony and Howard be taken out of the draw so the draw would be more even, because wouldn't anyone who plays against them be just a tad worried? Tony can't be here cos he wrote an email directly to Mike,which I read, saying he was going to be in India competing at the time but he surely would if his time allowed. He's wanted to play at GGBC many times, and last time he was here to coach his kids and played an exhibition game for GGBC. He also came to GGBC's Grand opening. You can see his photos in our gallery www.ggbadminton.com. So I'm not really understanding your argument Willy cos this is an open tournament where everyone living in US for 1 year can join. You are bound to get strong and not so strong players. It's not an International tournament where everyone is ranked top 10 in the world. I talked to some World Champion players who tell me each game is pretty tough cos even though some are not ranked as high, or AS strong, but they might have a GOOD day that day, playing themselves out of the stratosphere which often results in "upsets". Even Tiger woods can lose. Chris Lawrence has been directing the US Adult Nationals for years. So maybe you should write a letter to him regarding the fairness of the situation cos I don't know anyone more fair than Chris Lawrence. He is THE most experienced director in the US. Our Draw is fair in it's approach and according to regulations. Our director, nor GGBC, nor Kwun for that matter, has any reason or purpose to benefit anyone, by making the draws UNfair. Who and how would possibly benefit by making the draw difficult to those playing? If the draws are always truly UNfair, then why do the competitors keep competing everywhere for so many years? This is a prestigious National competition. The best in the US are playing and have played for many years. They know the rules, and they know the possibilities and the outcome of the draws. They weren't born yesterday. It's not as if they knew the draws beforehand, they won't enter or participate in this, or any other tournament anywhere? As I said, and not to be offensive, if you really feel so vehemently upset about this, you really should learn the tournament software, as well as by hand, and just do your own draw with the players to see if it would come out anymore fair in your eyes to really know. That would be the only way to make a fair assessment for your satisfaction. Regards, Sally for GGBC
Doing a draw is based on probability and the binomial distribution. If you can understand the theory behind binomial distribution, then you will understand that 1 in 20 times, a random draw will look extremely unbalanced and another 8 times look pretty unbalanced. A random draw is just that, random and does not equate to producing a balanced draw according to your perceptions. Now considering there were 5 events of MS, LS, LD, MD and Mxd, it goes without saying that at least one of them will look unbalanced. It is fair draw when performed randomly. Arranging a draw according to your perception of fairness, whilst although noble, also introduces the element of bias and possibility of conflict of interest. I know people in US are very much against conflict of interest so it is very much in the tournament organiser's interest to make a draw once.
