LD vs. LCW (unforced errors)

[ye333]

Well, I think LCW did pretty well in the 2nd half of the 1st game and the whole 2nd game. So I am not sure what LCW meant by "exhausted".

Btw, he played two tournaments and was already exhausted, maybe BAM should hire some Australian stamina expert too.

LD is a thinking player, just depends whether LCW could response to the change fast enuf. But in AE against CJ, LCW was slower to get his act together, before he could unleash his arsenal, CJ already won.



He, he, 'excuses' eh? Misbun is smart. DUring LCW told the Chinese radio station he was exhausted during SO Finals, he tried but could not bring his game up against LD.
That's the player's reason, if he said that to print media, it would have been seen as 'excuse', worse excuse than the "new style" reason Misbun gave.

[ye333]

I disagree. Not aiming at the lines would make it much easier for your opponent to defense.

IMHO, the best strategy for LD is to continue playing like nothing happened until there are one or two bad calls which are not overruled. Since only when that happens, you know for sure that keeping aiming at the lines will make you lose points.

A simple, effective and legal tactical strategy to counter biased line-judging is:
Don't aim for the lines

The pros are skilled enough to hit with a high degree of accuracy.
Shift the target area inwards by a few centimetres and no line-judge can get you

PS: The more brazen calls (like the wide one against Flandy & Vita) will simply get overruled as the line-judge's 'mistake' would be too obvious.

[badMania]

*Clap Clap*

Have to hand it to ye333 for his very detailed and sharp review of LCW vs LD's match at the Swiss Open.

I personally think that LD just played his normal game while LCW just happened to make silly but costly errors in the first half of the first set. LCW did bounce back in the second set and made LD fought hard to win it at the end.

[Oldhand]

I disagree. Not aiming at the lines would make it much easier for your opponent to defense.

Not aiming for the lines but a bit inside (as in my post) would make it a bit easier

[eaglehelang]

Well, I think LCW did pretty well in the 2nd half of the 1st game and the whole 2nd game. So I am not sure what LCW meant by "exhausted".

Btw, he played two tournaments and was already exhausted, maybe BAM should hire some Australian stamina expert too.

Most of us saw the matches and thought LCW had a bad day or "off" day. He did not play well at his best, probably due to tiredness. I don't think tiredness or old injury are bad excuses, very reasonable to me. .... I hope this "new strategy" thing from Misbun was merely a media talk afterward

My friend, you're not sporting authority or Msian,LOL, no excuse as tiredness is acceptable. Razif Sidek, the OG bronze medalist with Jailani, commented before that in his playing time, they played more tourneys per year & won titles, so compared to players nowdays who have less tourneys, so....

Ye333, LCW played in TC qualifers two weeks bf AE & SO.
"Exhausted" from I observe for LCW refers more to mental focus

[dannyang]

Cooler, you're normally clearer than this on KO:
1. The line judges were well neutralised by the umpire.
2. LD held 4 matchpoints but actually had more than 6 opportunities to win the match yet couldn't because LHI was mentally too strong for him.
3. Looking at the match as a whole, LHI outsmarted LD.(because physically LHI couldn't match LD)
Now when it came to AE and SWO,it's LHI's 3rd and 4th tournaments so he lost to fatigue and his lucky opponents got the credit.

LHI won because of
1. line judge. the last bad call is critical.
2. the audience supports.

LHI's losses in AE and SO are due to lack of line judge help and audience supports.
LHI is only a homeground champion.

[ye333]

Actually that's my impression too. LCW seems to be weak on "mental stamina". One tough match (for example AE08 vs. TH) and he seems slow-thinking in the next one (AE08 vs. CJ). It would be hard for him to do well in OG if he cannot improve on this, since in OG you have to win several tough (mentally exhausting) matches in a row.

Ye333, LCW played in TC qualifers two weeks bf AE & SO.
"Exhausted" from I observe for LCW refers more to mental focus

[pjswift]

LHI won because of
1. line judge. the last bad call is critical.
2. the audience supports.

LHI's losses in AE and SO are due to lack of line judge help and audience supports.
LHI is only a homeground champion.

LHI won German Open this year and an Indonesia Open title before.KO07 was the first time he won at home.
Either improve your English or do your homework before spraying.

[pjswift]

Actually that's my impression too. LCW seems to be weak on "mental stamina". One tough match (for example AE08 vs. TH) and he seems slow-thinking in the next one (AE08 vs. CJ). It would be hard for him to do well in OG if he cannot improve on this, since in OG you have to win several tough (mentally exhausting) matches in a row.

Let me try and help you understand the difference between mental fatigue and mental stamina.
Stamina is what a player has originally in the tank.
Fatigue is the drain on the tank.
Just as every match will take its toll on a player, every tournament will inflict a greater toll.As a comparison, from TC Qualifying to SWO:
1. LCW played 3 tourneys, some 12+ matches.
2. LD played 2 tourneys, 10 matches(out of which were 3 match 'breaks' playing teammates which burn little mental energy)
3. LHI played 4 tourneys,11+ matches.He won the GO but it took its toll in his crashing out first round in his 3rd and 4th tournament.
All these 3 players have some of the best stamina. They are not 'weak' on mental stamina but mental fatigue sets in with each subsequent tournament.
Remember LD last year? He sailed through the GO and AE but he couldn't pulled through SWO probably because it was the 3rd tournament and he lost to a qualifier,retiring due to 'back injury.' (Actually LD and company were supposed to play GO but when they realised KOR invasion, CHN chickened out, wisely.Otherwise LCW and company would have been able to enjoy the spoils of the CHN/KOR battle.)
So pls, it's mental fatigue. Not 'weak' in mental stamina.

[ctjcad]

Actually that's my impression too. LCW seems to be weak on "mental stamina". One tough match (for example AE08 vs. TH) and he seems slow-thinking in the next one (AE08 vs. CJ). It would be hard for him to do well in OG if he cannot improve on this, since in OG you have to win several tough (mentally exhausting) matches in a row.

..barring any W/O from the opponent, doesn't one go through the same process as in other SS events??..But unlike SS tourneys, the badminton matches in Olympics MS event start with Round of 32. So, counting the days, starting on Wednesday during the week, i assume there'll be no more than 1 match per day (per player)?; leading up to the Finals day on Sunday. Whilst in regular SS tourney, a player in the MS event can even have 2 matches in one day.

[Birdwood]

LHI won because of
1. line judge. the last bad call is critical.
2. the audience supports.

LHI's losses in AE and SO are due to lack of line judge help and audience supports.
LHI is only a homeground champion.

LHI won German Open this year and an Indonesia Open title before.KO07 was the first time he won at home.
Either improve your English or do your homework before spraying.

What dannyang said were his opinions, some possible reasons why LHI had won or lost, maybe not complete. His comment about homegrown champion was referring more to recent competitions since KO 08. As for German Open 08, Sung Hwan Park was seeded #1 and LHI #2. LHI won MS there without the participation of LD, LCW, BCL, and CJ.

We are all entitled to give our opinions in BC discussion. Your remark about him "spraying" appears to be an insult and totally uncalled for.

[ye333]

Well, IMHO, LCW showed mental fatigue as early as AE SF against CJ. He was not very sharp either in the earlier QF against TH (at that time I thought he was hiding his real self for later battles, but then he was even slower in the match against CJ ).

Let me try and help you understand the difference between mental fatigue and mental stamina.
Stamina is what a player has originally in the tank.
Fatigue is the drain on the tank.
Just as every match will take its toll on a player, every tournament will inflict a greater toll.As a comparison, from TC Qualifying to SWO:
1. LCW played 3 tourneys, some 12+ matches.
2. LD played 2 tourneys, 10 matches(out of which were 3 match 'breaks' playing teammates which burn little mental energy)
3. LHI played 4 tourneys,11+ matches.He won the GO but it took its toll in his crashing out first round in his 3rd and 4th tournament.
All these 3 players have some of the best stamina. They are not 'weak' on mental stamina but mental fatigue sets in with each subsequent tournament.
Remember LD last year? He sailed through the GO and AE but he couldn't pulled through SWO probably because it was the 3rd tournament and he lost to a qualifier,retiring due to 'back injury.' (Actually LD and company were supposed to play GO but when they realised KOR invasion, CHN chickened out, wisely.Otherwise LCW and company would have been able to enjoy the spoils of the CHN/KOR battle.)
So pls, it's mental fatigue. Not 'weak' in mental stamina.

[pjswift]

What dannyang said were his opinions, some possible reasons why LHI had won or lost, maybe not complete. His comment about homegrown champion was referring more to recent competitions since KO 08. As for German Open 08, Sung Hwan Park was seeded #1 and LHI #2. LHI won MS there without the participation of LD, LCW, BCL, and CJ.

We are all entitled to give our opinions in BC discussion. Your remark about him "spraying" appears to be an insult and totally uncalled for.

Well, i'm glad you spoke up for him and my apologies for being terse with dannyang .So you think he's spot on?
You think he's not insulting LHI and his brainy KO08 victory over LD?(If you follow Ye333's analysis somewhere,LHI gave away G1 to check out LD's arsenal range.)
GO has always been CHN's turf.Why did LD and team pull out just because KOR decided to move in? Aren't you insulting LHI's GO08 win?

[pjswift]

Well, IMHO, LCW showed mental fatigue as early as AE SF against CJ. He was not very sharp either in the earlier QF against TH (at that time I thought he was hiding his real self for later battles, but then he was even slower in the match against CJ ).

Totally agree with you.In fact, Jamesd22 noted in another thread that LCW seemed in not his best physical form since under Misbun.And jamesd22 is usually rather sharp with such observations.
When asked how he lost to CJ, he said ,'I don't know.' Which showed how tired he must be. My guess is LCW had overtrained during training,so during competition, he was showing signs of burnout(eg, snail speed, poor tactics).But CJ deserved full credit for his win. He was so on.
Even then, I was quite impressed that LCW could still hold on, playing on autopilot.The SWO MSF was closer than the score and I enjoyed it.LD was top form,very clear about his tactics and thoroughly deserve to win although LCW was generous in gifting him.
Question is:How to maintain LCW in top physical form so he does not get burnout from overtraining?

[Oldhand]

jamesd is not yet 22
He is still jamesd20

[Birdwood]

Cooler, you're normally clearer than this on KO:
1. The line judges were well neutralised by the umpire.
2. LD held 4 matchpoints but actually had more than 6 opportunities to win the match yet couldn't because LHI was mentally too strong for him.
3. Looking at the match as a whole, LHI outsmarted LD.(because physically LHI couldn't match LD)
Now when it came to AE and SWO,it's LHI's 3rd and 4th tournaments so he lost to fatigue and his lucky opponents got the credit.

LHI won because of
1. line judge. the last bad call is critical.
2. the audience supports.

LHI's losses in AE and SO are due to lack of line judge help and audience supports.
LHI is only a homeground champion.

LHI won German Open this year and an Indonesia Open title before.KO07 was the first time he won at home.
Either improve your English or do your homework before spraying.

What dannyang said were his opinions, some possible reasons why LHI had won or lost, maybe not complete. His comment about homegrown champion was referring more to recent competitions since KO 08. As for German Open 08, Sung Hwan Park was seeded #1 and LHI #2. LHI won MS there without the participation of LD, LCW, BCL, and CJ.

We are all entitled to give our opinions in BC discussion. Your remark about him "spraying" appears to be an insult and totally uncalled for.

Well, i'm glad you spoke up for him and my apologies for being terse with dannyang .So you think he's spot on?
You think he's not insulting LHI and his brainy KO08 victory over LD?(If you follow Ye333's analysis somewhere,LHI gave away G1 to check out LD's arsenal range.)
GO has always been CHN's turf.Why did LD and team pull out just because KOR decided to move in? Aren't you insulting LHI's GO08 win?

I did not say "he's spot on". I said his reasons "maybe not complete", but they could be "some possible reasons" why LHI had won or lost. Please keep in mind, one thing in BC discussions ppl don't have to do is always giving complete pictures, assessments or reasoning. There are no requirements for BCers to give comments based on all the facts. But we do have code of conduct: no racist remarks, no personal insults, and no personal attacks, to name a few. These are the basic human decency. If you don't want to be called "spraying" when making comments, please don't do that to others.

As his remark an insult to LHI? I don't think so. We see this kind remarks or criticism day-in and day-out in the forum about players and coaches (I can find you many examples if you'd be interested). The view was one-sided. Many BCers give their one-sided views, that's why we have debates and rebuttals. Just look at you remark to cooler, you never thought biased linesmen had anything to do with influencing the final outcome of KO 08 MSF. Was that an insult to LD? The answer was no. It's your opinion, you're well within your rights to say only what you want to tell us regarding baddy.

[eaglehelang]

.
When asked how he lost to CJ, he said ,'I don't know.' Which showed how tired he must be. My guess is LCW had overtrained during training,so during competition, he was showing signs of burnout(eg, snail speed, poor tactics).But CJ deserved full credit for his win. He was so on.

Errrrr, LCW didnt say (if you were talking about LCW) "I dont know", LCW said he played slower against CJ.