Why +2lbs On The Cross?

**Mark A** · 01-07-2008, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Pete LSD

You get to try 30/33

I recently did my AT800 in Ashaway MP at 28/31. When it came time to pull the first cross, where I always add ANOTHER 10% (making a total of 35lbs), the string broke at the starter knot. Luckily, almost none of it went to waste and I finished the job. The bed is definitely on the... lively... side

.

**taneepak** · 01-07-2008, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Mark A

I recently did my AT800 in Ashaway MP at 28/31. When it came time to pull the first cross, where I always add ANOTHER 10% (making a total of 35lbs), the string broke at the starter knot. Luckily, almost none of it went to waste and I finished the job. The bed is definitely on the... lively... side

.

I have strung many racquets with MP66 at around this tension and I have not experienced a single mishap. To be safe may I suggest you use a 4 to 5 loop starting knot. Using a pro or double half-hitch knot as a starting knot can be dicey.

**jug8man** · 01-07-2008, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by taneepak

The suggested 10% higher tension on the crosses is just a rough guide to stringing a racquet with minimal distortion. However, some stringers will still have some distortion with the 10% higher cross tension, more so at high tensions and with stringing the crosses from top down. Stringing the crosses from the throat up will reduce distortion more than from top down but with reduced playability because of its inability to have a starting knot for the top cross string.
The best playabilty is two-piece stringing with a starting knot at the first top cross string. But this technique requires more stringing skill, especially at high tensions and with oval-shaped racquets.
You can test your own stringing skill by stringing an oval racquet using 2-piece stringing, with a starting knot at the first top cross. and finishing with a cross tie-off knot at the throat end. Measure the length of your racquet from tip of the top of the frame to the end cap of the handle, before and then after stringing. You will be surprised at the results.

Just passing by this old stringing thread. Noticed your views on stringing crossed top to bottom vs bottom to top have changed for the better.

ITYS

True, not having a starting not at the top will be the disadvantage of this method (btm to up) as u mentioned. But, here lies the true test of stringing skills to try to achieve the best possible finishing tie off at the top end of the frame.
It's something for everyone (present company included) to strive for better results and consintency. With out such challenges, stringing rackets would have been a dull routine devoid of enthusiasm after understanding the basic procedures.

**jug8man** · 01-07-2008, 08:54 PM

Good comparison,

The blatant dangers of stringing crosses top to bottom showcased once again. It's not a matter of poor stringing skills but a flawed method.
Stringing crosses top to bottom is akin to dead breaking your car with your gearbox. the damage!

It does work but you wouldn't need it if u had good brakes to begin with!

Originally Posted by sifuyono

recently i've tried different method on stringing.
*one piece
*same tension (main n cross) eg: 27.5 x 27.5 lbs
*2 point spring machine
*cross top-down

the result: frame narrower than original shape and not friendly to arm due to feedback when hitting the shuttle.

before it i used:
* 1 piece
* cross 10% higher than main eg: 25.5 x 28 lbs
* 2 point spring machine
* cross down to top
the result: friendly to arm, friendly to smash, almost the same (99%) as it original frame shape

**taneepak** · 01-07-2008, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by jug8man

Good comparison,

The blatant dangers of stringing crosses top to bottom showcased once again. It's not a matter of poor stringing skills but a flawed method.
Stringing crosses top to bottom is akin to dead breaking your car with your gearbox. the damage!

It does work but you wouldn't need it if u had good brakes to begin with!

I think the car and gearbox analogy is not appropriate. One piece stringing results in the most unevenly tensioned stringbed in racquet stringing. You have to play a newly strung racquet for a few days-that is the time for the uneven tensions on the strings to even out the large but not the small tension differences of the whole stringbed-before the racquet plays well at all. A well strung 2-pc, top to throat cross stringing pattern, will play well on day one, and with a punch and crispness that one pc stringing can only dream of.

**jug8man** · 01-08-2008, 12:11 AM

0) Gearbox anology looks perfectly fine to me.

1) Was comparing stringing crosses top to bottom againts crosses bottom to top.

2) I did not even mention stringing one piece vs 2 piece. Why did you bring it up?

3) there is more than 1 variation of 1 piece stringing. Your statement is too general.

4) I'm not promoting 1 piece stringing here. I'm Dis-promoting stringing crosses top to bottom (in general) (some rackets are not designed to have much problem with this method. I stated it somewhere long time ago a few times). Try and Stick with the topic discussed.

4) I do remember telling the kids to 'don't try this at home' especially when I've already said before my methods are not for everybody.

**taneepak** · 01-08-2008, 01:56 AM

Each is free to choose top/down or down/top for the crosses. But I am on firm ground when I say that top/down crosses with a real starting knot is the undisputed king in playability. Down/top is another Yonex marketing (actually an insurance against more claims from high tension, not unlike its understated recommended stringing tensions) ploy because AOTBE, a tie-off knot, a requirement for such down/top pattern, at the top cross string loses more than 10% tension at a critical place (top half of the frame). Using a starting knot at the throat end for that down/top is wasted effort as it serves no useful purpose.

**jug8man** · 01-08-2008, 02:25 AM

It's already clear that even Yonex must have noticed a significant enough corelation between racket breakage and top to bottom stringing. If not, they would never have changed such a policy

Perhaps some ppl have uber-mastered the stringing of crosses top to bottom, which is good for them. but how much of that mastery is transferable to his peers?? Very little I believe and how do you educate the entire world?

Just because someone mastered the art driving drunk safely at 40% blood alcohol level means that others should follow.

Starting knott at the throat is not wasted effort. It is instead a great foundation to good overall stringbed. The stringer must strive to compliment this developing good / decent tie off technique which should result in good lasting tension.

**sifuyono** · 01-08-2008, 03:00 AM

I DONT KNOW, AND I DONT CARE about 1 or 2 piece, top down or throat to top cross.
i just have my own experience that 1 piece and throat to top cross satisfy me better than top down cross.
everybody has it's own experience and not always the same

**STRING** · 01-08-2008, 03:18 AM

I agree with jug8man. Taneepak, I m sure you have mastered the top>down style and want to share with the rest of us. But the way you criticised the other style is not acceptable. The way I inteprete your message is your style is the only way to go. Other than your style is a waste of time or useless. I maybe be wrong. Yonex has been in this business for years, I am very sure they have done lots of research regarding the stringing method down>top. Peace!!!

**jug8man** · 01-08-2008, 03:23 AM

See, even the String agrees with me

Cheers buddy

**jerby** · 01-08-2008, 03:27 AM

now really, if you are going to start at the bottom, what's the real difference between a 1p and a 2p?
-no starting know for the crosses: so what, the bottom cross won't be floppy (If you use base-clamps, or other methods to tension the first cross)
-there's a slight loss in symmetry because the second last main on one side will be taught, and the other has some slack because of a tie-off... Just tension it 3lbs higher, big deal...

all the advantages you think you get from the special methods are for 95% all in your head if you ask me...

**taneepak** · 01-08-2008, 07:10 AM

Perhaps someone can start a poll for users (not stringers) to poll their opinions on top/down vs down/top patterns of cross stringing they have used. It will be more neutral than opinions from stringers. Fair enough? After all the customer is always king.

**jug8man** · 01-08-2008, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by jerby

now really, if you are going to start at the bottom, what's the real difference between a 1p and a 2p?
-no starting know for the crosses: so what, the bottom cross won't be floppy (If you use base-clamps, or other methods to tension the first cross)
-there's a slight loss in symmetry because the second last main on one side will be taught, and the other has some slack because of a tie-off... Just tension it 3lbs higher, big deal...

all the advantages you think you get from the special methods are for 95% all in your head if you ask me...

I agree. Common sense solves many issues in stringing. Cheers

**jerby** · 01-08-2008, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by taneepak

Perhaps someone can start a poll for users (not stringers) to poll their opinions on top/down vs down/top patterns of cross stringing they have used. It will be more neutral than opinions from stringers. Fair enough? After all the customer is always king.

Can I make a carefull prediction of the poll results?
10% - yes top down
10% - bottom down
80% - what's the difference?

For all the people I string here, the have more than enough problems handling which tension/string they want (heck, some can't even choose a color!)
Next up is asking them what pattern they want? where they want their knots? What kind of knots? how many crosses and mains?
If you ask me, in the end people just want their racket strung, and preferably in a way they feel plays nice...Any technical stuff just bothers or bores them...

**jug8man** · 01-08-2008, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by taneepak

Perhaps someone can start a poll for users (not stringers) to poll their opinions on top/down vs down/top patterns of cross stringing they have used. It will be more neutral than opinions from stringers. Fair enough? After all the customer is always king.

Is this an election??? Perhaps someone's been too preoccupied with Obama & the Clintons???