Why +2lbs On The Cross?

**Neil Nicholls** · 07-03-2005, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Neil Nicholls

BG66 0.81%/kg
BG70Pro 0.92%/kg
BG65 1.17%/kg
BG80 1.23%/kg
BG68Ti 1.33%/kg
the values are (change in length) / (original length) per Kilogram tension
the 66 and 70pro where done quite a while ago, and I don't have any more lying around.

Originally Posted by cooler

one question, i thot bg66 would stretch the most

u should retest bg66. The rest are within range

re-tested BG66 under the same conditions as the 65,80,68 and got 1.47%

The BG70Pro figure should maybe be discounted also. I don't know how much those 66 and 70 from a long time ago had already been stretched.

**Jinryu** · 09-09-2005, 06:45 PM

Here's a thought for everyone.

Usually when I do string jobs for people, I string with a 2lbs difference between mains and crosses. One of my recent clients however accused me of not doing the 2lbs difference because the racket looked too "fat" (horizontally too wide)-- I assured him that I had done the 2lbs difference and that when I gave him the racket it looked fine.

When I went to see him at his gym, expecting to see something wrong, he showed me his AT800DE which looked perfectly normal to me, exactly the way I had strung it... the reason why he thought it was fat was because he was comparing his AT to someone else's that was strung "also at the same tension", but that looked extra *long*. I mean, the racket face was actually thinner (noticibly less wide) and longer (noticibly longer from head of the frame to throat).

The owner of this "AT800DE Long" (i just made that name up) suggested to me that I was stringing incorrectly, wheras I am sure that it is his stringer who perhaps made an error. I compared my stringing job to an AT800DE without any strings and the shape of my stringjob is almost identical to a stringless AT800DE.

So what I'm wondering is this... the person with that AT Long insists that he had his job done by someone in China who strings for the national team. I didn't pry for details, it's not really important. But what I want to know is, has anyone here at BC ever heard of using MORE than 2lbs difference on mains and crosses? And, moreover, is this safe?

My own answers to these questions is, no, I have never heard of more than 2lbs difference. As to safety, i'd imagine that any distortion from the stringless form of the frame could be dangerous to the racket. But i'd like to get some other opinions as well.

I am thinking from the look of it that this isn't even something like 'a little more' than 2lbs difference, it's got to be even more than that considering that my first sight of the racket was "holy cow, it looks like a rectangle with rounded edges!"

I don't beleive the player who uses this special AT has never really had any problems so far....

**silentheart** · 09-09-2005, 08:24 PM

check the AT-long. dose the head look more square? imho, even at 19mx24c, my cab20ms is identical to another one with 19mx21c. however my old aerotus88 will change shape. i think the ms box frame will not change as much compare to the thinner defense frame. just like to get some opinions from other people. do you think the aerodynamic shape frame is softer?

**Noob848** · 10-22-2005, 08:57 PM

wut wud happen if i did 25X23 lbs ^.^

**Jinryu** · 10-28-2005, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by silentheart

check the AT-long. dose the head look more square? imho, even at 19mx24c, my cab20ms is identical to another one with 19mx21c. however my old aerotus88 will change shape. i think the ms box frame will not change as much compare to the thinner defense frame. just like to get some opinions from other people. do you think the aerodynamic shape frame is softer?

Well, personally, I find it's softer than some but stiffer than others. The 'softest' racket i've seen so far is in my opinion the Nanospeeds.

On another note-- i'm posting to folow up on this.

I did a little experiment on one of my AT 800smanaged to acheive an AT800De "LONG" by stringing the crosses, instead of from top to bottom, from bottom to top. I guess that usually when we use the recommended top-down direction for stringing crosses, the frame of the racket gets "stacked" downwards, and the opposite is true too.

The thing I'm concerend about with these 'long' ATs is that basically what they are is a regularly strung AT, but the bottom 'fatter' part is more compressed-- I rather think that this means that the lower area of the stringbead will be more tense than the upper area. So my guess is that stringing form bottom up makes the sweetspot move lower?

Any thoughts?

Also, does anyone here actually string crosses from bottom-up? Is this bad for the racket?

**DinkAlot** · 10-28-2005, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Noob848

wut wud happen if i did 25X23 lbs ^.^

Errrr, 25 mains and 23 crosses is definitely not a good thing.

**DinkAlot** · 10-28-2005, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Jinryu

Also, does anyone here actually string crosses from bottom-up? Is this bad for the racket?

I've always done bottom up on the crosses because I pre-string a 1-piece string then tension it. Never had a problem.

**black_knight006** · 10-12-2006, 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by benibeni

Hi, I wanted to ask whether 2lbs difference is the recommended difference on iso shapped racquets?
Well, jus read the post from mr.lok from a forum where he strung racquets for pros, and he strund Kim's racquet at 27lbs mains, and 21lbs cross... not only was the cross not 2lbs higher than the mains, its way lower..

Just hope to find an explanation before restringing my racquets.. all of them are quite loose at the moment and i need them redone soon..
cheers

Hey benibeni,

Yonex recently changed their stringing patterns. The Nanospeed 9000, and the Armortec 800 Off & Def are strung differently than all the other Yonex racquets and there was some buzz going around saying that they had changed the tension different of 2 lbs. I work in a pro-shop and had heard this rumour a number of times. I hadn't heard anything from Yonex but decided to phone them up anyways. It still stands, with all the Yonex Badminton racquets they should always be strung with 2 pounds higher. That's coming from the mouth of the Yonex representative at the head office. Anywho, there's my 2cents!

**black_knight006** · 10-12-2006, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by DinkAlot

I've always done bottom up on the crosses because I pre-string a 1-piece string then tension it. Never had a problem.

Ummm...aren't all Yonex badminton racquets strung as a 2 piece? At least that is the way that Yonex recommends that you do it. Same with their tennis racquets! You string thru to the 9th string, then go from T12 (twelfth throat grommet) to H11 (eleventh head grommet) over then to H10 and down to T10. Then tie off on T8 or T6. (Can't remember what they recommend). Then you start your crosses from bottom up. You don't string them as a one piece do you?

**black_knight006** · 10-12-2006, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by kwun

here i offer an explanation why we need 2 more lbs on the cross string. actually quite trivial and i wonder why no one has brought it up.

the first pound.

let imagine the situation in which we have a good 6-pt machine.

we weave and tension mains string first, and then we weave and tension the cross string. when we tension the main string, the strings are a straight line when tensioned. without loss of generality, let say we first tension the mains to 20lbs.

then we weave and tension the cross at 20lbs. notice now that after the tensioning, the mains are no longer straight as they are weaved with the cross. the result of the mains being displaced and since the frame isn't moving, the tension will have to go up. by how much is anybody's guess, but my guess would be say 1 lb?

now, if the mains goes up by 1lb, then we have to increase the cross tension to 21lb to compensate for the difference.

the second pound.

i believe if we have good support, 1lb or so is all we need. many have said that if we have a machine with no support, we need 2 pounds to compensate the distorted frame. i think that is a legitimate argument.

collorary:

what else can we find from this?

well, one observation i can see is that, if we tension, eg. 20/22, the resultant mains tension is actually higher than 20. and imho, more like 21 or so.

does that make sense?

Do you not prestretch your frame? When you have it mounted do you not pull down your throat clamp and then lock it in place. This is what I was taught to do?!

And wouldn't this have a negative effect on the stringing job? Because if the head of the racquet is stretched longer then when you take it out won't the mains loose more tension and then the crosses gain more tension?

**DinkAlot** · 10-12-2006, 04:45 AM

Originally Posted by black_knight006

Ummm...aren't all Yonex badminton racquets strung as a 2 piece? At least that is the way that Yonex recommends that you do it. Same with their tennis racquets! You string thru to the 9th string, then go from T12 (twelfth throat grommet) to H11 (eleventh head grommet) over then to H10 and down to T10. Then tie off on T8 or T6. (Can't remember what they recommend). Then you start your crosses from bottom up. You don't string them as a one piece do you?

Just because Yonex says or recommends something, doesn't mean it's right or best.

I do a one-piece string job most of the time.

**Quasimodo** · 10-12-2006, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by DinkAlot

Just because Yonex says or recommends something, doesn't mean it's right or best.

...

Blasphemy! Blasforyou, blasforeverybodyintheforum...

**black_knight006** · 10-13-2006, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by DinkAlot

Just because Yonex says or recommends something, doesn't mean it's right or best.

I do a one-piece string job most of the time.

Lol...I guess I can agree with you on that. Maybe just not on this topic

Aren't you supposed to do it a two piece because Yonex wants you do string your crosses from top to bottom? Otherwise you could just got thru and string it a one piece. And what is this I hear about starting your crosses in the middle? Is that something that "cooler" does? Why? What is the logic behind it?

Please explain someone!!!

**DinkAlot** · 10-13-2006, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by black_knight006

Lol...I guess I can agree with you on that. Maybe just not on this topic

Aren't you supposed to do it a two piece because Yonex wants you do string your crosses from top to bottom? Otherwise you could just got thru and string it a one piece. And what is this I hear about starting your crosses in the middle? Is that something that "cooler" does? Why? What is the logic behind it?

Please explain someone!!!

I'm not using Yonex rackets so I do not have to follow anything they say.

I use a SOTX Woven 7 and there's no preference and the warranty is good for up to 31lbs. So again, I do not use Yonex's recommendations.

**a_n_d_y** · 10-24-2006, 04:02 PM

Question. IF you go to the blackknight website (www.blackknight.ca), somewhere in the site under the stringing methods, it says that for their badminton racquets, the ratio is 22m, 23x. So, does that mean if i have 23lbs for main, i should have 24lbs for cross? Because it matches what kwun says...assuming my stringer has decent stringing machine.

**DinkAlot** · 10-24-2006, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by a_n_d_y

Question. IF you go to the blackknight website (www.blackknight.ca), somewhere in the site under the stringing methods, it says that for their badminton racquets, the ratio is 22m, 23x. So, does that mean if i have 23lbs for main, i should have 24lbs for cross? Because it matches what kwun says...assuming my stringer has decent stringing machine.

Yes, based on the BK website. But I would recommend 23/25lbs.