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  1. #18
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    Yes, most coaches in the UK are affliated to local clubs. The fact is, most of these coaches are doing it like a part-time job, like my collegue here, he has a national coaching license, but he only works part time in the local club. He also gets some deals for Yonex rackets but the price they get is no better than those you get from Hong Kong. I still think Hong Kong is a badminton paradise.

    As for Hong Kong, I really have no idea nowdays, I only know that top coaches are usually conected to the HK Sports institute and HK Badminton Association. I just don't know how many 'top coaches' there are in Hong Kong. I met a few ex-china province players who are giving private tutions in HK, they do not even have any affiliations with shops!


    And, yes, taneepak is right, shops make very little money from selling top brands, but most likely not making HKD20 a racket, that is the thing that they always tell you. I rekon that they can make probably 10-20% or profit for Yonex rackets, depends on where they get their supplies. I think the people in the trade knows very well about the market price for rackets, the scene is that, the prices of new top end rackets are always 'floating', and then there is a demand and supply thingie, then there is also the grey import (JP/CN/CP) stuffs in which they can make more money out of us.

    Nowadays I only buy my badminton stuffs from a single shop in Hong Kong, anyway, I have seen them moving from a tiny corner shop to a now much larger and properly layout shop, and I have never had a fault with their stuffs, both badminton and tennis.


    P.S.> Just some updates, found out that there are only 180 registered badminton coaches in Hong Kong with the HK Badminton Association, I am surprised!
    Last edited by colekwok; 04-11-2008 at 08:45 AM.

  2. #19
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    Many sports shops in Hong Kong get a better deal buying Yonex racquets, strings, and shoes from the bigger Yonex distributors than directly from Yonex. Very few shops can afford to pay up front HK$500,000 every month to Yonex to get the best deals (discounts), so almost all of them buy from the bigger boys. If they buy directly from Yonex they will be lucky to make HK$20 for a HK$1,000 racquet.
    I myself can get Yonex supplies cheaper than most Hong Kong shops if I want to, but I don't buy Yonex stuff.

  3. #20
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    I see. Anyway, it is nice that we can still get loads of grey market stuffs in HK. In the UK, basically there is none.

  4. #21
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    FYI, shop can make what ever profit they want. However, from the price I have seen from SE Asia (including HK). They are making making about 15~20% per YY racquet.

  5. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentheart View Post
    FYI, shop can make what ever profit they want. However, from the price I have seen from SE Asia (including HK). They are making making about 15~20% per YY racquet.
    I cannot say about other SE Asian countries, but I do know the pricing structure of Yonex in Hong Kong. There is just no way they make 15-20%, unless you are using the few high prices some shops ask for but can never sell. Even the top Yonex distributor who buys more than $1,000,000 every month does not get 15%. It in turn resells them to most of the shops in Mongkok at a discount much lower than 15%. Even the very big boys with their 15% discount (sometimes much less if they don't meet their top discounte level) have to resort to distributing them into China at the same price they get from Yonex but in Yuan, thereby making profit strictly on exchange gains.

  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by colekwok View Post
    I see. Anyway, it is nice that we can still get loads of grey market stuffs in HK. In the UK, basically there is none.
    Grey market in Hong Kong means the real stuff, not fakes. Grey market means Yonex stuff but imported by importers other than Yonex. Yonex racquets with JP, TW, TH, and many other non-SP coded Yonex racquets are grey market imports found in Hong Kong but they carry no warranty. Only SP racquets, imported by Yonex, carry a one year warranty.

  7. #24
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    I agree with taneepak. You'd be lucky if you can make 5% margin with selling Yonex stuff in Hong Kong. Fierce competition.

    Going back to coaches using fake rackets, I think it is a problem. While I agree it's the technique that matters more and not the equipment, it's the spirit of sportmanships that counts. The spirit of sportmanships include using a properly manufactured equipment that is safe when used by the player as well as being safe with the participants during the game. A fake racket has no manufacturer QC, and will be a hazard to the player and those who are playing in the game.

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    I cannot say about other SE Asian countries, but I do know the pricing structure of Yonex in Hong Kong. There is just no way they make 15-20%, unless you are using the few high prices some shops ask for but can never sell. Even the top Yonex distributor who buys more than $1,000,000 every month does not get 15%. It in turn resells them to most of the shops in Mongkok at a discount much lower than 15%. Even the very big boys with their 15% discount (sometimes much less if they don't meet their top discounte level) have to resort to distributing them into China at the same price they get from Yonex but in Yuan, thereby making profit strictly on exchange gains.
    Have you work for YY before? Were you a YY dealer before? Have you read the contract and incentive dealer get before? I can not discuss any of those terms with you because I will get killed.

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentheart View Post
    I just want to add a few points to Master LB post.
    ...
    2) If a coach is using a fake racquet, it is likely he/she is not experience enough to tell real vs fake. If the coach is knowingly using a fake is this case, what is stopping him selling fake one and not telling the student the "whole truth".
    3) If a coach can not get the freebies from manufacture by opening an account, I question if the coach is good enough.
    4) A good coach can charge good price and he/she has no need to use a fake racquet.
    I'd say the coach got jibbed unless he openly acknowledges that he knows it is a fake and prefers to use one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamzz View Post
    i reckon as long as he's not trying to sell them to the kids as the genuine article, what he uses himself is his own preference. you're looking to the coach to teach you technique, not the concepts of right or wrong in the marketplace.
    It is important because sportsmanship includes honesty and integrity as part of a true champion and the mentoring of a champion (Master Yoda for Luke Skywalker versus The Emperor for Darth Vadar).

    Focusing on the ends and not the means is a VERY huge problem in this rat-race world where everyone steps over one another to get ahead at all cost including sacrificing their character for the sake of money.

    If I have kids, I do not want them to be trained under such personality even if he is a mute teaching badminton. There is something unspoken language that we pick up as learners and that's where the impacts are significantly.

    Besides, there is a high probability that there are tons of coaches out there with similar skills but better ethics for me to choose from.

    Quote Originally Posted by winstonchan View Post
    ...Going back to coaches using fake rackets, I think it is a problem. While I agree it's the technique that matters more and not the equipment, it's the spirit of sportmanships that counts. The spirit of sportmanships include using a properly manufactured equipment that is safe when used by the player as well as being safe with the participants during the game. A fake racket has no manufacturer QC, and will be a hazard to the player and those who are playing in the game.
    It is not so much of a quality issue as it is an integrity issue.

    Using a fake (technically an illegal pirated item), user is accepting and endorsing the fact that it is ok to help the criminal make a living.

    To paraphase chairman Deng's famous quote :
    "It does not matter whether it is a black cat or white cat, as long as it catches mouse, it is a good cat."

    I'd say this:
    "It does not matter whether it is a genuine or fake racket, as long as it hits the shuttle, or breaks apart while you are executing a shot, flies over the net, thereby causing injury to your opponenet which in turn helps you win the game with the opponent's withdrawal from the game, it IS a great racket"

    Note, because of this, do not be surprised that they use lead paint on the racket and causing global warming with the CFC emission while spray-painting it.
    Last edited by otterfun; 04-11-2008 at 11:39 AM.

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentheart View Post
    Have you work for YY before? Were you a YY dealer before? Have you read the contract and incentive dealer get before? I can not discuss any of those terms with you because I will get killed.
    Aou are being "monitoreed" by the FBI!!

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Aou are being "monitoreed" by the FBI!!
    No, MIB.... Why do I need to type more than 15 charactors? My fingers hurt.

  12. #29
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    that too is your choice, if you're not comfortable with it, that's fair enough. if someone else is, then that's up to them. personally, this is a secondary issue for me, as long as the coach teaches the proper technique, is fair and does not abuse the kids in any way, that's what matters to me most.

    Quote Originally Posted by otterfun View Post
    If I have kids, I do not want them to be trained under such personality even if he is a mute teaching badminton. There is something unspoken language that we pick up as learners and that's where the impacts are significantly.

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamzz
    i reckon as long as he's not trying to sell them to the kids as the genuine article, what he uses himself is his own preference. you're looking to the coach to teach you technique, not the concepts of right or wrong in the marketplace.
    Quote Originally Posted by otterfun
    It is important because sportsmanship includes honesty and
    integrity as part of a true champion and the mentoring of a champion (Master Yoda for Luke Skywalker versus The Emperor for Darth Vadar).
    That's quite a jump there, otterfun, to assume if the coach in question uses a fake racket, that he's not teaching the kids sportsmanship, then leading into living in a rat-race and doing anything to get ahead.

    While I can recognize the need to spot indicators for clues for a coach's
    integrity, just honing in to the racket used, seems lazy. If your issue is the
    coach's integrity, then you can always sit in on a few lessons and watch that coach's method, or talk to other parents of students.

    Quote Originally Posted by otterfun
    ... black cat, white cat ... racket breaking injuring opponent ... integrity issue ...
    Maybe you should put down the newspaper or turn off the news a little and enroll in tai-chi or other calming exercises.

    -dave

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentheart View Post
    Have you work for YY before? Were you a YY dealer before? Have you read the contract and incentive dealer get before? I can not discuss any of those terms with you because I will get killed.
    In Hong Kong, Yonex's largest distributors also distribute other brands and Yonex knows about it and cannot do anything about it. It is better to rely on these big guns to sell volumes far exceeding the domestic demand of the Hong Kong market than not to sell a dime at all. Yonex's regional distributors also compete with each other. Yonex Hong Kong, a different regional distributor from Yonex China, has a substantial share of the Chinese market, solely due to these big boys. Here it is fierce competition. There are no borders between each region's distributor. Also there is a world of difference in real life between an ordinary distributor and one who is big, really big.

  15. #32
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    1) Yonex rarely ask shop, distributer to sign "enforceable" "exclusive" deal. They only require to have Yonex as majority distributer.
    2) If a shop has to go through distributer, they are small fish and I agree they do not have too much of the margin because distributors took a good chunk already.
    3) If it is a legit shop, they can always apply an Yonex account and get good price directly from region and they do have good profit margin.

  16. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentheart View Post
    1) Yonex rarely ask shop, distributer to sign "enforceable" "exclusive" deal. They only require to have Yonex as majority distributer.
    2) If a shop has to go through distributer, they are small fish and I agree they do not have too much of the margin because distributors took a good chunk already.
    3) If it is a legit shop, they can always apply an Yonex account and get good price directly from region and they do have good profit margin.
    You will be surprised that most of the shops or exporters in Hong Kong that people in N. America order from do not buy directly from Yonex but from the big boys. The market in Hong Kong is super efficient, hence you find many Yonex stuff being shipped to N. America, despite the fact that they carry no warranty over there and that there is a Yonex US distributor there. Every Yonex racquet shipped and sold to people in the US in the grey market is a reflection of the inefficient market in the US.
    Maybe, if dealers in the US are seriously competitive we may find many US Yonex racquets here, which will be a good thing.

  17. #34
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    Interesting to see the huge difference between HK and the US.

    As far as I know, there are more than one major distrubuter of Yonex in HK. In fact, these distrubuters are usually bigger racket shops. Either they make a large amount of money from distributing rackets to the smaller shops I really don't know. But I just really wonder if they really only make HKD20 out of a racket like the AT900? As I understand, some shops is aimming to sell at a lower price but in volume to make money, it is one of their strategies. I would say it would be fair that they make HKD100 from it. Of course, they also make money from stringing and shuttles as well. In the old days, when I got my first spanking new Aerotus 110, it was HKD7XX plus stringing on top of the price, and at the end of the lifecycle of Aerotus, I bought one only for HKD380 with free stringing. I just wonder whether it is Yonex who drop the price so dramatically for old models or the shops making loads of money out of us and tell us that they only make USD3 out of a new racket?

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