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  1. #86
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Hmm..Is Candra the "most dangerous doubles player today"??..

    Quote Originally Posted by bugjan72 View Post
    ...
    Candra is used as 'agent' to bond all players and he has proven his track in the last Sudirman Cup, yes..Indonesia did not win the cup, everybody knows that but almost no one predict Indonesia can reach to the final.
    I think 'Candra' factor is apllied for INA Thomas Cup team based on the current condition:
    1. Luluk/Alvent: Although they are world's no 7 but their performances are not really promising and they have mental blocking (esp. Luluk) when their opponent can read their game. I think coaches do not have enough confidence to Luluk/Alvent to deliver a point.
    2. Joko/Gunawan: Young players and still struggling to stamp their name in world's mens double but they must be given enough exposure in big tournament.
    INA Team do not have many options if they want to depend on those two pairs.
    Candra and Nova are called to create more pair variations and I'm not surprise Candra will be paired with Joko or Gunawan as well.

    It is gambling and very daring step to drop Luluk/Alvent from Thomas Cup team but decision must be made.
    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    ...
    Of course, INA did lose the tie to China. Flashback to the Sudirman Cup Final, INA already had themselves in the backfoot with Flandy/Vita losing in a narrow match against Zheng/Gao. The second match was women's singles which was almost a walkover. The third match was Candra/Kido's match. Only a very optimistic guy will bet on the INA pair matching the in-form and reigning World Champion at that time (Fu/Cai won 2 straight SS titles). So, it was expected that the scratch pairing lost to the Chinese pair.
    ...
    ...the argument was not for the performance of the INA SC squad but what happened when Candra & Markis paired up, esp. when they played against CHN's top, not 2nd ranked, MD pair. As for against the ENG MD pair, i personally don't know who were or are their legit 1st MD pair.
    ...for this TC squad, i would say the 2nd MD pairing for INA will have a 50-50 chance against the other top 2nd ranked MD pairings (teams mentioned by badMania above, post #80). Okay, i'll give 'em a 60-40 or even a 70-30 chance against a few others. If they play against, say, Nigeria, i'll give 'em a 100% chance of winning. Yes, even with Candra in the mix.
    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    Did u actually think pairing Candra with either Alvent or Kido or Hendra would stand a chance against Fu/Cai ???

    Regardless of which pair INA used in that Final (Kido/Hendra or a combination of Alvent, Candra, or Hendra AG), the chance against the Chinese pair was at best 50-50

    Don't forget, the target was to reach the Final, which they did. Anything beyond that will be a bonus
    ..exactly my point, as to my argument about Candra. His chance of winning pairing up with those players is 50-50. Is that a "fearsome" & "gruesome" percentage?
    Although i was hoping they would give a fight, esp. as the 2nd option to give a pt, but then they lost almost so easily to Fu & Cai.
    Now, to answer your question, no, i don't think any of those players, combined, would stand a chance against Fu & Cai. The only capable INA MD pair, which IMO can challenge and win against Fu & Cai is Markis and Hendra.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erwin Kyoto View Post
    Agree...Nova/Candra have demonstrated their best performances even though their training for ABC only in a few days. Surely, INA team would ask them become 2nd MD in SF and F matches. Even no chance to Joko/Hendra or any other Candra's variations to play in INA's crucial matches...but I just worry about their stamina if all their matches take rubber...Anyway...INA MD TC skuad have good chance to take point...
    ..we'll see what'll happen in the TC if indeed Nova and Candra are paired up.
    Again, he'll most likely be paired up playing against the other squads' 2nd ranked MD pairs.

    Anyway, no one is arguing about Candra's factor to the TC squad. But back to the point of discussion:
    In general, with the current MD pairs in the world:
    Would any pair, with Candra in it, make it a fearsome pair?
    And is he truly the most dangerous doubles player today?
    I'll let you guys take your time & answer those 2 questions.
    Last edited by ctjcad; 05-06-2008 at 10:24 AM.

  2. #87
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    In general, with the current MD pairs in the world:
    Would any pair, with Candra in it, make it a fearsome pair?
    And is he truly the most dangerous doubles player today?
    I'll let you guys take your time & answer those 2 questions.
    Make it a fearsome pair? No, but better pair yes, depending the quality of the pair to begin with
    Truly the most dangerous doubles player today? No, I'll give that title to Lee Yong Dae.

  3. #88
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default ^^You have your thinking cap on..^^

    ...thaaaaaank you very much, for answering and................confirming.

  4. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    Didn't Candra Wijaya/Markis Kido beat Anthony Clark/Robert Blair the previous night to secure the all-important 3rd pt in the last tie (which stretched to past midnight HKG time if I remembered correctly) that guaranteed the final spot? That's a vital pt for Team INA and Candra's contribution was massive! Remember that Markis Kido/Hendra Setiawan lost 2 consecutive times against Clark/Blair before the SF matchup. That's the reason why the coaches decided not to field Kido/Hendra.

    Candra/Kido only lost to the faster and more attack-oriented Fu/Cai, nothing ashamed about that. Kido/Hendra could have lost too if they were played. I would say that pairing up Candra with any players certainly will add an element of unpredictability.
    yes i totally agree with you. however if i remember correctly, during thomas cup 2004, candra was paired with tri kush instead of sigit/halim and that ended very unfortunate for us (losing to eriksen-lungaard in sf). With the age factor, i wouldnt completely depend solely on candra himself; his partner has to be equally as good as him or at least someone who can control the net area. nova has proven himself to be the perfect candidate...but i still think pbsi shouldnt have dropped luluk/alvent, cos what pbsi is doing now(putting candra on the team) is not regeneration , yes?
    but still, GO TEAM INDONESIA!ayo ayo, ayo indonesia....kuisi kita harus menang!

  5. #90
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    Weird line ups..Hopefully whatever that have came out from this new management would work out...

  6. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    In general, with the current MD pairs in the world:
    Would any pair, with Candra in it, make it a fearsome pair?
    And is he truly the most dangerous doubles player today?
    I'll let you guys take your time & answer those 2 questions.
    I am curious about a partnership between Candra Wijaya and Hendra Setiawan. This one will be a dangerous pair to watch, because Candra, regardless of his age, can still attack from the back. Kido has the tendency to make unforced errors.

    Of course Candra is NOT the most dangerous doubles player today...but, we have seen how Tony and Candra combined together and still troubled and actually beat many younger fearsome pairs last year, eg: Koo/Tan; Luluk/Alvent; Fairuz/Zakry; Lee/Hwang; Sakamoto/Ikeda; and Guo/Xie.

    Even the scratch pairing of Candra/Nova still beat Japan and Korea's first and second MD pair at this moment: Sakamoto/Ikeda and Lee/Hwang.

  7. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ...the argument was not for the performance of the INA SC squad but what happened when Candra & Markis paired up, esp. when they played against CHN's top, not 2nd ranked, MD pair. As for against the ENG MD pair, i personally don't know who were or are their legit 1st MD pair.
    ...for this TC squad, i would say the 2nd MD pairing for INA will have a 50-50 chance against the other top 2nd ranked MD pairings (teams mentioned by badMania above, post #80).
    What happened to Candra/Kido when they were paired up:
    1. They beat the ENG no 1 pair Anthony Clark/Robert Blair (also the 2006 World Championships Silver-Medallist, in case you forgot ). INA pair used to have difficulties, esp when Anthony Clark is present. Kido/Hendra lost to this pair in the 2006 World Championships QF. Also note that Anthony Clark/Robert Blair beat Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong in the Sudirman Cup group match, to seat the all-important pt that saw them through to the SF. So, I would definitely say that they are not an easy pair to deal with, as they lost only to Candra/Nova in the Sudirman Cup campaign.

    2. They lost to the then World No 1 pair and reigning World Champions Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun, which I fully expect.

    I personally would think that Candra/Kido's performance throughout the Sudirman Cup was good enough. I expected a tough match against Anthony Clark/Robert Blair, but, it turned out that the INA pair triumphed easily.

  8. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    I am curious about a partnership between Candra Wijaya and Hendra Setiawan. This one will be a dangerous pair to watch, because Candra, regardless of his age, can still attack from the back. Kido has the tendency to make unforced errors.
    Can't agree more. Candra is still quite effective from the back. Partnering him with HS, will be quite interesting to say the least.

    When in top form, MK/HS is on equal ground with any of the other nation's 1st MD (KKK/TBH will be playing 2nd MD), but considering they haven't played in international competition for awhile, not to mention the mental condition of Markis..... Maybe there'll be surprises in store @ TC.

  9. #94
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Well..

    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    ...
    Of course Candra is NOT the most dangerous doubles player today...but, we have seen how Tony and Candra combined together and still troubled and actually beat many younger fearsome pairs last year, eg: Koo/Tan; Luluk/Alvent; Fairuz/Zakry; Lee/Hwang; Sakamoto/Ikeda; and Guo/Xie.
    ...
    ..thank you for the answer; that's all i'm looking for...

    As for what happened in last yr's SC, yes, i already know. And i remember the 2006 WC silver medals for the ENG pair. No one's forgetting anything and you've already mentioned it before, in the previous page.

    As for the scenario of Candra partnering with Hendra, yes, it crossed my mind before. It does sound wonderful and all but will they be a "fearsome" pair? Or is it all a speculation, at best. Because for that, you, me and we all don't know as we haven't seen them play together yet.
    And even then, if you take that scenario in this Thomas Cup event, who will be the 2nd INA MD pair? Which player will pair up with another player to form another dependable 2nd MD pair? Markis and Joko? Markis and Nova? Joko and Nova?who else? what other combination?

    As for the talk about Tony and Candra making hay by troubling or even beating the other younger MD pairs, sure, it's a great story they can still do so (with all their circumstances). The Japan Open title, last yr, was great. But anything else to offer? Where have they finished recently? Heck, eventhough Jonas and Lars and probably other older pairs haven't won any major titles recently, they have upset some younger MD pairs recently.
    It's back to that age-old question: What have you done for me lately??..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 05-07-2008 at 03:11 AM.

  10. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    As for the talk about Tony and Candra making hay by troubling or even beating the other younger MD pairs, sure, it's a great story they can still do so (with all their circumstances). The Japan Open title, last yr, was great. But anything else to offer? Where have they finished recently? Heck, eventhough Jonas and Lars and probably other older pairs haven't won any major titles recently, they have upset some younger MD pairs recently.
    It's back to that age-old question: What have you done for me lately??..
    I am sure you know better than me of how Tony and Candra fared in recent months

    Candra Wijaya's record since winning the Japan Open 2007:

    With Tony Gunawan
    China Open 2007 -- lost in R32 to Hendra A. Gunawan/Joko Riyadi in three tight-sets.

    Hong Kong Open 2007 -- Final, beaten by Markis Kido/Hendra Setiawan; beat Tan Bin Shen/Ong Soon Hock, Chien Yu-Hsun/Lin Yu-Lang, Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong (a huge upset), and Luluk Hadiyanto/Alvent Yulianto en-route to the Final.

    Malaysia Open 2008 -- SF and fulfilled their seeding, beaten by Markis Kido/Hendra Setiawan; beat the upcoming CT pair Fang Chieh-Min/Lee Sheng Mu, MAS no 3 pair of Mohd Fairuzizuan Mohd Tazari/Mohd Zakry Abdul Latif, and DEN no 4 pair of Simon Mollyhus/Anders Kristiansen (all in straight sets).

    All-England 2008 -- beaten by Lee Jae Jin/Hwang Ji Man in R16, after beating GER no 1 pair of Kristof Hopp/Ingo Kindervater (the Russian GP Gold 2007 Winner) in R32.

    Swiss Open 2008 -- QF and fulfilled their seeding, beat Lee Jae Jin/Hwang Ji Man (a revenge for the defeat in the previous week's All England), Shuichi Sakamoto/Shintaro Ikeda (who beat Koo/Tan again in the AE), all in straight-sets. Only lost out yet again to the World Champion.

    India Open 2008 -- SF, lost to Chan Chong Ming/Chew Choon Eng in 3 tight-sets. Beat Robert Blair/Richard Eidstedt, POL no 1 pair of Michal Logosz/Robert Mateusiak, and Hendra Wijaya/Yoga Ukikasah.

    With Nova Widianto
    Asian Continental Championships -- Final, lost to Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae. Beat Shuichi Sakamoto/Shintaro Ikeda, Luluk Hadiyanto/Alvent Yulianto, and Lee Jae Jin/Hwang Ji Man en route to the Final.

    Record: 17-7 (out of which 3 are to the World Champion and 1 to the AE Champion).

    That's not a bad record, comparing with (from China Open onwards):
    Markis Kido/Hendra Setiawan -- 20-3
    Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun -- 13-5
    Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae -- 27-6
    Choong Tan Fook/Lee Wan Wah -- 13-6
    Koo Kien Keat/Tan Boon Heong -- 8-6
    Tony Gunawan/Candra Wijaya -- 13-6
    Luluk Hadiyanto/Alvent Yulianto --13-7
    Lars Paaske/Jonas Rasmussen -- 18-6
    Guo Zhendong/Xie Zhongbo -- 15-6
    Lee Jae Jin/Hwang Ji Man --15-8
    Candra Wijaya/Nova Widianto -- 4-1

  11. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    Heck, eventhough Jonas and Lars and probably other older pairs haven't won any major titles recently, they have upset some younger MD pairs recently.
    Well, Lars Paaske/Jonas Rasmussen finally won their long-awaited European Championships 2008 title to their World Championships 2003 title.

  12. #97
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    we can conclude.. though candra is aging. his skill is still there

  13. #98
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Anyway...

    ...badMania, thanks for the recap stats/records of the current MDs, Candra's record etc. And thank you for providing an answer to my question, a few posts back, which was basically the crux of the initial notion of discussion.

    I'll let you (or anyone else) continue on the speculation or possible combo mix etc. for the INA MD squad (or for Candra). All I care about is results. Yes, not just Semifinal or QF finishes/results, but whether Candra can get his hands on a title.
    Last edited by ctjcad; 05-07-2008 at 04:32 AM.

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    Candra/Hendra will definitely do better than Candra/Kido... But will they be stronger than Hendra/Kido?

    For a whole tournament, not likely. For only one match, I think it's possible. But then INA needs to push Gunawan/Riyadi to first MD or use a scratch pair (choosing from Gunawan, Riyadi, Nova, Kido) as 2nd MD. Either way most likely one point will be lost there.

    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    I am curious about a partnership between Candra Wijaya and Hendra Setiawan. This one will be a dangerous pair to watch, because Candra, regardless of his age, can still attack from the back. Kido has the tendency to make unforced errors.

    Of course Candra is NOT the most dangerous doubles player today...but, we have seen how Tony and Candra combined together and still troubled and actually beat many younger fearsome pairs last year, eg: Koo/Tan; Luluk/Alvent; Fairuz/Zakry; Lee/Hwang; Sakamoto/Ikeda; and Guo/Xie.

    Even the scratch pairing of Candra/Nova still beat Japan and Korea's first and second MD pair at this moment: Sakamoto/Ikeda and Lee/Hwang.
    Last edited by ye333; 05-07-2008 at 11:30 AM.

  15. #100
    Regular Member huangkwokhau's Avatar
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    Today, INA UBER and Thomas Cup will meet INA President as well as dinner with President tonight....

  16. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by huangkwokhau View Post
    Today, INA UBER and Thomas Cup will meet INA President as well as dinner with President tonight....
    i hope mr SBY won't talk about the domestic politic which is heating up
    Last edited by taufik-ist; 05-07-2008 at 09:25 PM.

  17. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by huangkwokhau View Post
    Today, INA UBER and Thomas Cup will meet INA President as well as dinner with President tonight....
    Dinner with Sutiyoso, the nominating President...not with SBY

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