It's like a road accident; you just had to slow down to look

[eaglehelang]

.

Meanwhile, I'm going to look at the pictures of the BadmintonCentral gathering at the Thomas Cup games in Jakarta that brought together members from California, Philippines, KL, Kuching, Singapore, Indonesia, and marvel at the Indonesian BC members' hospitality at arranging accomodations, transportation, food recommendations, VIP passes, wonderful photographs.

Then I'm going to beat my chest and yell up to the heavens at how cruel BadmintonCentral is, as Kwun won't pay for my first-class ticket to Jakarta, and curse the other mods for not heeding my requests for the penthouse suite in the Jakarta Ritz-Carlton.

-dave

Now you've mentioned it, btw, are you ever coming to these parts to watch baddy live Wood_22?

If you are, there'll be Melaka dodol waiting (dunno tourists like them so much) & whatever souvenir/keepsakes you want from Msia's Historical City, he he. Same goes for madbad & others. Eagle will 'fly' with them over to KL.
Too bad, cannot bring Melaka satay celup along.

[eaglehelang]

Wilfred, glad you came back after the spat & splitter. Dont bother abt those few irritating ones, enjoy your time with the rest of us.

P.S : And I also take public transport.

[quisitor]

Fun topic, fun responses.

I am a member on RAWK which is roughly the same size as this place with several hundred times more activity than BC on a daily basis and it had rarely turned into a jungle of monkey business. If anything the topics in the equivalent 'Chit-Chat' section are composed of a lot of intelligent discussions on the current affairs. Any signs of lax in evolution and the members get a warning/ban, threads cleaned up and reopened. There are the fair share of rubbish topics as with any forums in the world but what have that thread above done to deserve a locking?

RAWK caters toward a localized population and aficionados thus making discussion of local current affairs relevant and interesting to the broader base of members. Discussion of non-local current affairs may also be interesting due to the broader base's ability to exchange fruitful dialogue in that at least part of the mentality of the members share a common base or background from which progressive discussion can be made.

In order for intelligent conversation to occur, language is vitally important. The ability to exchange ideas is limited by the sophistication of a language in conveying those ideas. There are two such languages which allow this level of sophistication. The language of logic is one of them but is not heavily emphasized in society and tends to be underdeveloped in most citizens. The English language is the other with by far the largest vocabulary of any language.

English as a first language or at least a fluent language ought to be ubiquitous on a forum like RAWK as opposed to a global forum like BC. Thus it's not necessarily the case that the administration discourages intelligent conversation but rather that they assume it will not exist given its constituency. One must also keep in mind that if a belief in strict moderation is desired by the administration, the enforcement of such is only attaniable to the degree that the administration itself is able to comprehend intelligent discourse. Thus blanket rules are often implemented when awareness of one's own limitations exist.

Further, one can hardly compare the intelligence of RAWK members and BC members. It is a given that RAWK supporters spend half the day drinking away in pubs, which as we all know is the true birthplace of all great ideas and discussion. The RAWK forums are merely an extension of the pub.

Regarding the topic that was closed, I would agree that it was closed prematurely if the reason for it being closed was due to politics. Any remark made on the state of the world or general comment on life can be considered political and likely has an element of politics within it if one looks closely enough. Why, the entire Tournaments group of sub-forums can be considered political or for some even religious. I do however think it should have been closed for being too restrictive in its audience. There are thousands of localities and millions of topics that threads could be created upon and at some point a limit must be drawn on what topics should best be discussed elsewhere. It is of little interest to me that a village councillor in a town 50 km south of Buenos Aires has been re-elected.

Localized topics should be permitted only when human travesty has occurred such as the natural disaster in Myanmar or when the topic has more far-reaching implications. Thus the poster of the topic may have made the thread more relevant to the broader base by basing his discussion on the causes and solutions of infrastructure congestion using the situation in Kuala Lumpur as an example. It would also help if the multiple articles were summarized by the poster. In doing this, the broader base of members could reflect on the congestion, transportation and infrastructure issues of their own locales. After many interesting exchanges, the broader base could reach the conclusion that the cause of congestion is due to an expanding population, increased urbanization and insufficient spending on infrastructure. As infrastructure is rarely a concern for myopic electable members of parliament, the solution would be found in a different form of government; perhaps a long-term totalitarian one.

I suppose praises are easier to the eyes/ears than criticism. If you think I'm still sore from the previous ban then you're really living up to what I have just mentioned about painting people with the same-coloured brush of 'stupid'.

Eh, what happened? Who was previously banned? They didn't suspend you did they? That would be totally crazy! Surely not for your comments that a moderator should spend more time on moderating and less time on trying to make oneself look clever with snappy remarks (at the expense of forum members)?

i do not believe the admin/mods here want to restrict posters with IQ > 120. The badminton community is made up of people from various ages, background and countries. Everybody contributes something here and there. There is no universally accepted moral principles that i know of so the admin/mods do the best to limit certain off topics and subjects for discussion. Who is to say BF has to emulates the constitution of other forums? This is a badminton forum, having a chit chat forum allows sufficient freedom and flexibility on discussions of reasonable off topic matters. Just because this forum doesnt fulfill your needs doesnt mean u can trash it.

cooler, cooler, cooler... I thought you'd long ago given up trying to fight battles with people of IQ > 120. Wilfred's point is simply that BF should employ fewer blanket rules for areas of intelligent discussion and allow for a broader array of topics--since the badminton community is made up of people of all different backgrounds as you have so aptly noted, are you suggesting BF wishes to restrict posters to those with IQ <= 120? Wilfred is merely suggesting that topics for those with IQ > 120 should also be allowed. He also notes that a side benefit of allowing discussions for those with IQ > 120 is that those with cooler IQs might warm up to the topics if given the chance to read these types of threads.

Quality can be subjective. If the subject of discussion doesnt suit one's taste as in wilfredlgf case, it can be perceived as low quality.

disclosure: i often find wilfredlgf posts as low quality since i don't like reading about football, fantasy games/songs/videos that he is so interested in http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...archid=1223695
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...archid=1223698

And what would a cooler post be without an attack on the poster rather than the topic at hand? And of course, the obligatory links attempting to shine a light on an individual's "less fine" moments (at least in cooler's view). cooler, in case you were wondering--no one bothers to do a search for your "less fine" moments as members would not be interested in seeing a hundred+ links every time. Something to keep in mind when you decide to link to people's past posts in the future.

It's all nice to talk about global warming in the abstract, but MAS political problems is a different beast, with MAS members with different levels of dialogue attitude.

It's easy to predict how it'll go, and I support the idea of, what was that saying, an ounce of prevention something, a pound of cure.

Global warming is a much more political topic than local infrastructure as it is political on so many more levels and affects so many more people. To think otherwise is merely looking at the surface.

What are your thoughts on backseat moderation? I am of the opinion that unless it's inadvertently done coincidental to a solid argument or contribution, it should be prohibited. Too often I see members posting replies that say not much more than that a particular thread should be closed. My question is: How is what these members write of any better quality than the original post? Is it a post count thing? I say we ought to allow the moderators to moderate in peace, free of influence--surely they should have some vague idea of what they're doing? If one finds a particular post offencive, can one not simply report the message in private?

Cry me a river because denial is not a river in Egypt.

You want whine with that cheese?

You do realize that thoughtless random application of cliches tend to lose their humour? Unlucky for you "denial" has real context in this discussion. If what Wilfred says is true: Life goes on, we should not censor all topics, politics are a part of life, then you just taunted BF as by censoring certain discussions, BF and its members are in a state of denial.

Incidentally, was your post really necessary? You do a lot of good for the BF community and contribute a lot to the members but being the religious person that you are, I don't believe the Bible states it's good to taunt others.

given what i said above, the rest of your post doesn't make sense anymore. bye, and enjoy your toilet seat in the other forum.

Completely unnecessary. Justly or unjustly, the administrative team is held to a higher standard than regular members. You'll be respected more if you diffuse the situation gracefully. As the forum grows, so to must you mature in your handling of things.

Just get more mods from all sorts of background to work on the place and you might suddenly feel less of the need to micro-manage everything, get stressed and end up blanket-locking/banning because you can't be bothered to clean up and align topics back in line.

There's an interesting thought. If they recruited some sub-forum moderators who only have power for specific sub-forums, they could reduce the stringency of personality traits they look for in selecting new moderators. Perhaps they should have a new sub-forum in the Lounge for the intelligent discussion you seek without the restriction on anything remotely political, as almost any discussion contains an element of politics. "Intelligent Discussion" would never work as it's not politically correct. But perhaps a title to let members know that by reading threads in this particular sub-forum they may be in over their heads. "Ow, My Head Hurts"? Or perhaps "Erudite Philosophy"? The latter title contains a word most know not the meaning of and a word that would scare any and all away.

Then I regret not being able to make sense, boss. I suppose it would sting since this place is your baby but even if I no longer care much for it, I don't like watching toddlers walk their way towards a drain especially when I have been part of its growth for such a long time.

Sometimes you gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. One of the aspects of BC is that there are very few English badminton web sites, so it operates as a monopoly, which as we know is less progressive to change. If you are serious about creating a less restrictive badminton forum and an environment friendlier to diversity of thought, you may have to create your own forum or go elsewhere. There are many badminton-related topics that have not yet been explored here that I could start if you decide to host your own forum. Alternatively, a quick search suggests:

http://badmintonsite.com

might be a place for you to start your revolution.

Also, ultimately, as a sport for badminton to grow, more emphasis must be placed on the individual players rather than the federations. As such, supporting a site like www.badmintonsite.com by creating an active message forum there should be beneficial to the players and the growth of the sport. New members will be able to see videoclips of the unique and enjoyable personalities of the pros. They don`t have a "General Discussion"-labelled area there but I believe the "Trashtalk" or "Opinion Forum" can act as one. Guess I should post something there under a new super-secret pseudonym.

[DinkAlot]

I have one more:

Pot calling the kettle...

Quisitor: I know you always wake up on the wrong side of the bed but Wilfred? For Wilfred to all of a sudden come and rip into BC just because of some posts that are locked or deemed unfair or whatever, there has to some underlying problem. There has to be some kind of problem Wilfred has that we don't know about and he's venting it on BC because normal people do not just go ballistic like this.

Have a fun with your "Defender of the faith" posts, I'm out.

You do realize that thoughtless random application of cliches tend to lose their humour? Unlucky for you "denial" has real context in this discussion. If what Wilfred says is true: Life goes on, we should not censor all topics, politics are a part of life, then you just taunted BF as by censoring certain discussions, BF and its members are in a state of denial.

Incidentally, was your post really necessary? You do a lot of good for the BF community and contribute a lot to the members but being the religious person that you are, I don't believe the Bible states it's good to taunt others.

[llpjlau]

I have one more:

Pot calling the kettle...

Quisitor: I know you always wake up on the wrong side of the bed but Wilfred? For Wilfred to all of a sudden come and rip into BC just because of some posts that are locked or deemed unfair or whatever, there has to some underlying problem. There has to be some kind of problem Wilfred has that we don't know about and he's venting it on BC because normal people do not just go ballistic like this.

Have a fun with your "Defender of the faith" posts, I'm out.

John 8:7, some people even use boulders.

[ctjcad]

This is a good example of why I find it pointless to comeback to this place nowadays.
...

..Hi wilfredlgf, good to hear from you again!..I thought you would never come back to BC, again....Anyway, some of us missed your posts and we'd like to have you come back, contribute & post, again.

Re the way/approach the mods and kwun are running BC, i'm sure most of us know their hands are mighty full and to expect them to cater and satisfy every single member's desire and need is basically asking the impossible. Thus they have their own rules/restrictions etc., set, as guidelines to moderate this particular forum (and i'm sure it applies to other forums' owners as well). In other words, freedom granted and given in this forum is great, but if not controlled, there'll be chaos. If that happens, who will/has to moderate and take control of the actions??..
And as members, i think we just need to follow them. For one, i think we should all be thankful this forum exists, where we can post/chit-chat, even with BC's "deficiencies"..

Anyway, enough of my rambling. And hope you'll come back...your Football thread is waiting for you to contribute, again....Hmm, maybe i should restart the "Malaysian Temptations" thread, again?!?!..hmm..

[cooler]

Oh dear. You really love me, don't you?

Good god, I hardly know u. U way overrated our affair.

As kwun has mentioned, why read something you're not interested in?

Good god, i have more common sense than that. When i see football, LOTR, or other weird game on the thread title, I shudder for a second, then i move onto next thread..However, i don't whine about it.

I camp around Chit-Chat because the rest of the forum is the same thing rinse and repeat plus a bunch of dross thrown into it, so I avoid what I am not interested in - rinse and repeats with a bunch of dross thrown in. If you happen to dislike me being on BC for talking more about football than badminton, well I have already remedied the situation by staying away from your beloved badminton-related forums.

how could i love someone who's hardly around LOL

Racquet-thumping badminton fundamentalists.

Why is that that I simply don't talk badminton on BC nowadays? I only follow football on the weekends and would still devote my time reading up on LCW, Zakri-Fariz.. Fairuzia..Fairuzizuan and Rexy in the papers. I lamented on why Hafiz just didn't manage to take this chance thrown to him to redeem his game reputation and shook my head at the inconsistency of the supposedly great KKK-TBH. On Mondays I head down to the courts to have my own session of badminton.

It's not the sport's change from 15 to 21 points that I opposed or the unending domination of China that drove me away from here, then what?

I followed the TC by watching the telly and reading the papers, and not a single time did I go back to BC for pictures and game reports. I didn't even feel the need to put in my 2 cents on what happened in Jakarta either.

for u, it's all about yourself i see. U forgot BC/BF are serving the need of many many other badminton fans that u dont seem to care about. Why would someone want to love u?

Just go back to the transport thread. I thought it was a nice place to 'come back' since I am taking the public transport to work nowadays and might need to be driving around after a few months. Considering that the topic title doesn't even have names of prominent politicians in MAS, Dato Asbullah raised good questions on how this thing could be helped. It's a real issue that is actually more important than which racquet has the most power.

The mod locked the thing before anything of substance can be properly discussed.

MAL transport problem is a local problem, mods has the rights to can a thread that is so locally specific and political. Any lesson learned there serve no useful purpose to the general badminton community (i didnt read that thread so i dont know what happen to it. Hey, I didn't whine about this one either

Compare that to the tourney threads. I suppose you can always cite the 'focused on badminton' on me, but heck I'm sorry to just realise that rule.

I suppose it's OK to discuss about China's economy becoming 2.5 times bigger than the US since the economy, war and the WTO (putting on my borrowed mod glasses) are apolitical. Don't even think about questioning the Myanmar junta's unbelievably slow response to the Nargis Cyclone relief efforts because threads have to be apolitical.

I can't believe it.

Why should we question myanmar junta's action? any decent warm body beings can see it's wrong. Problem is, we can discuss all we want in BF and it won't change a thing so why talk about something are so obvious and we can't do a thing about it??

Just get more mods from all sorts of background to work on the place and you might suddenly feel less of the need to micro-manage everything, get stressed and end up blanket-locking/banning because you can't be bothered to clean up and align topics back in line.



Heck, I might even nominate cooler there as one.

I don't hate this place, I hate what it's become.

people evolve and changes, so do websites and forums. If u want the old BF way with less than 400 members, i suggest u go start a new forum. cap it to 400 members max, and implement your nostaglic standards

Then I regret not being able to make sense, boss. I suppose it would sting since this place is your baby but even if I no longer care much for it, I don't like watching toddlers walk their way towards a drain especially when I have been part of its growth for such a long time.

If u love somebody, set them free
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fGb9H1kn6cI&feature=related
Sting.

U r free to go

..........................

[cooler]

Fun topic, fun responses.

RAWK caters toward a localized population and aficionados thus making discussion of local current affairs relevant and interesting to the broader base of members. Discussion of non-local current affairs may also be interesting due to the broader base's ability to exchange fruitful dialogue in that at least part of the mentality of the members share a common base or background from which progressive discussion can be made.

In order for intelligent conversation to occur, language is vitally important. The ability to exchange ideas is limited by the sophistication of a language in conveying those ideas. There are two such languages which allow this level of sophistication. The language of logic is one of them but is not heavily emphasized in society and tends to be underdeveloped in most citizens. The English language is the other with by far the largest vocabulary of any language.

English as a first language or at least a fluent language ought to be ubiquitous on a forum like RAWK as opposed to a global forum like BC. Thus it's not necessarily the case that the administration discourages intelligent conversation but rather that they assume it will not exist given its constituency. One must also keep in mind that if a belief in strict moderation is desired by the administration, the enforcement of such is only attaniable to the degree that the administration itself is able to comprehend intelligent discourse. Thus blanket rules are often implemented when awareness of one's own limitations exist.

Further, one can hardly compare the intelligence of RAWK members and BC members. It is a given that RAWK supporters spend half the day drinking away in pubs, which as we all know is the true birthplace of all great ideas and discussion. The RAWK forums are merely an extension of the pub.

Regarding the topic that was closed, I would agree that it was closed prematurely if the reason for it being closed was due to politics. Any remark made on the state of the world or general comment on life can be considered political and likely has an element of politics within it if one looks closely enough. Why, the entire Tournaments group of sub-forums can be considered political or for some even religious. I do however think it should have been closed for being too restrictive in its audience. There are thousands of localities and millions of topics that threads could be created upon and at some point a limit must be drawn on what topics should best be discussed elsewhere. It is of little interest to me that a village councillor in a town 50 km south of Buenos Aires has been re-elected.

Localized topics should be permitted only when human travesty has occurred such as the natural disaster in Myanmar or when the topic has more far-reaching implications. Thus the poster of the topic may have made the thread more relevant to the broader base by basing his discussion on the causes and solutions of infrastructure congestion using the situation in Kuala Lumpur as an example. It would also help if the multiple articles were summarized by the poster. In doing this, the broader base of members could reflect on the congestion, transportation and infrastructure issues of their own locales. After many interesting exchanges, the broader base could reach the conclusion that the cause of congestion is due to an expanding population, increased urbanization and insufficient spending on infrastructure. As infrastructure is rarely a concern for myopic electable members of parliament, the solution would be found in a different form of government; perhaps a long-term totalitarian one.

Eh, what happened? Who was previously banned? They didn't suspend you did they? That would be totally crazy! Surely not for your comments that a moderator should spend more time on moderating and less time on trying to make oneself look clever with snappy remarks (at the expense of forum members)?

cooler, cooler, cooler... I thought you'd long ago given up trying to fight battles with people of IQ > 120. Wilfred's point is simply that BF should employ fewer blanket rules for areas of intelligent discussion and allow for a broader array of topics--since the badminton community is made up of people of all different backgrounds as you have so aptly noted, are you suggesting BF wishes to restrict posters to those with IQ <= 120? Wilfred is merely suggesting that topics for those with IQ > 120 should also be allowed. He also notes that a side benefit of allowing discussions for those with IQ > 120 is that those with cooler IQs might warm up to the topics if given the chance to read these types of threads.

And what would a cooler post be without an attack on the poster rather than the topic at hand? And of course, the obligatory links attempting to shine a light on an individual's "less fine" moments (at least in cooler's view). cooler, in case you were wondering--no one bothers to do a search for your "less fine" moments as members would not be interested in seeing a hundred+ links every time. Something to keep in mind when you decide to link to people's past posts in the future.

Q, what brings u back into our Newtonian universe? U got bored with your Q Continuum or u got bullied out from Q Continuum because u r such a lackey over there? Sorry, i honestly don't know what the h*ll u r trying to say above but then again i don't have an IQ of 5,000,000 like you to understand your Q language transcribed into the lower and primitive form ...english.

What give u the idea i've given up battle with 120+ IQ beings? i'm not afraid of high IQ beings, even if they are aliens with gizillion IQ quotient. BTW, do your parents know that u've entered our universe again to hassle us lower form human beings?

[koo_fan]

Just to give u a a warm comeback...Really good to see u again.
And plaese dont do the same again.Stay forever.

[wood_22_chuck]

Now you've mentioned it, btw, are you ever coming to these parts to watch baddy live Wood_22?

If you are, there'll be Melaka dodol waiting (dunno tourists like them so much) & whatever souvenir/keepsakes you want from Msia's Historical City, he he. Same goes for madbad & others. Eagle will 'fly' with them over to KL.
Too bad, cannot bring Melaka satay celup along.

According to Mrs wood_22_chuck, it'll be when hell freezes over, and even then, it's a maybe.

-dave

[Cheung]

Let's see if the grievances can be diffused since I am the one who closed the thread.

(Apologise for my absence as my computer has been down...and still is)

Going back to the thread in question, the subject is on transport. However, you do see that the 1st and last sentences refer to the government. Well, in fact the whole article refers to the government! Then there another another few posts by the OP along the same subject.The OP says it is nonpolitical - just by writing a statement like that does not mean the thread is nonpolitical! There is a clear implication to the root cause which leads to the closure of the thread. Disclaimer - the ISA has nothing to do with this.

Back to wilfred's issues. Can chitchat forum open such threads? Politics are not welcomed. The forum has been flexible before and the whole situation got totally out of hand. Therefore such threads are scrutinised extremely carefully.


Are threads closed that often? Well, you just have to look back at ChitChat and review how many threads get closed

[Cheung]

I think Wilfredlgf's main point here is about the general standard of BC these days.

I have to admit that the standard has gone down a lot since I first joined it.. I was 11 when I joined this forum and I remember BC being this really great forum where discussions were really interesting, logical etc etc. 6 years later I'm looking at the same forum that has grown sooo much in terms of the quantity of members. Unfortunately, with more members, more rubbish tends to trickle in. And it's such discussions that just seem to keep me away from BC more and more these days.

There are ways to prevent such a used-to-be-awesome forum from degenerating, if only the mods will start looking around and asking for opinions..

P.S. Or perhaps I've 'matured' since 11-years-old and no longer find badminton interesting.. can't be, I've got 2 dates with the badminton court this weekend.

P.P.S Wilfredlgf, if that wasn't your main point, my bad. Just thought I'll drop a note by the feedback forum and your thread seemed perfect.

I rather think Wilfred only had a gripe about the ChitChat forum.

If about BF in general, yes, I think you are right in that there is a maturation phase. Things become interesting if you learn more. Hobbies have that effect. Have you met people who have had an interest but then they move on to other hobbies? It happens very commonly and I guess that posting on a webforum is much the same manner. You should see my post count - it's dropped off considerably Then again, I have less time.

[wilfredlgf]

Did this place just leaned left while I was away?

yes and it's looking good

A thread on (hot) women???

And I even saw one on politics allowed to thrive!! (though the 'debates' is up there with the news of prospectors striking gold in Saudi Arabia and "I don't know why I hate them, I just do")

But why after I left for my sabbatical? Why not before? Is this a reaction to me being critical? I was one of the founding members of the anti-establishment crew who decry the oppression of opposing opinion.

You guys are just mean.

I want my police-state BC back.

--

And sweet Lord, my child the footie thread - what have you people done...

[madbad]

A thread on (hot) women???

And I even saw one on politics allowed to thrive!! (though the 'debates' is up there with the news of prospectors striking gold in Saudi Arabia and "I don't know why I hate them, I just do")

But why after I left for my sabbatical? Why not before? Is this a reaction to me being critical? I was one of the founding members of the anti-establishment crew who decry the oppression of opposing opinion.

You guys are just mean.

I want my police-state BC back.

--

And sweet Lord, my child the footie thread - what have you people done...

Good to hear the voice of insanity once again, hehe. Is this just a fly by or are you back?

[ctjcad]

...
And sweet Lord, my child the footie thread - what have you people done...

...welcome back!!...I guess baddie will always be in your blood....err...in your DNA, eh??..
Oh, that futbol thread, it's been waiting for you return....

[wilfredlgf]

Good to hear the voice of insanity once again, hehe. Is this just a fly by or are you back?

Will be testing the water a bit but won't be touching any part of the main forum - I predict the same thing from the last few years I've been a member here, just newer racquets and players.