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  1. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhirata View Post
    im not sure, because I cant view the video right now. Ill look when i get home. On a related note, instead of a lift, you can, after faking the crsscourt, drop it to the same side.
    So its fake to drop, fake crosscourt, then drop it like what they expected the first time

  2. #36
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    Just to throw in a link: deception (part of my singles tactics article), including common forecourt deceptions and rearcourt deceptions.

  3. #37
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    I like to play this trickshot sometimes... easier than a forehand crosscourt netshot, and more deceptive too.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH2LvnLD33I

    At ~0.53

  4. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerby View Post
    Never fake a shot away form your opponent, and hit it to him. Always fake towards him, and it it away.
    If you do the first, all deception is pretty futile....
    I remember there was once my opponent was anticipating that i'll return his shot with a drive to his partner, who is considerably weaker than him...(which i have done so many times previously in the game), but instead i did a deceptive shot by faking it away, but hitting to him. Turns out the shuttle passed behind him so easily Fooled

    There are also other situations when such shots are used effectively...even in pro matches sometimes they would fake a shot away but hit it to their opponent...so it may not be totally futile

  5. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerby View Post
    Other than that, keep trying new stuff, but one golden rule is:
    Never fake a shot away form your opponent, and hit it to him. Always fake towards him, and it it away.
    If you do the first, all deception is pretty futile....
    that is true yeah i can only see it working once in a while though like just cause it could catch them off guard here and there but also if they over anticipate wouldnt that work as well in that case? you fake away then hit it to where they are as they would be caught moving in the other direction or would that just end up being a fake since they wouldnt be in their origional position anymore? i dont know maby im trying to over think things to much with that.

    I remember once playing a guy in a tournament and i was comming into the net on my backhand going to do a simple hold and crosscourt flick (suck him in and then put it to his backhand corner) but before i could even start to do anything (racquet and me were just comming in not really that easy to tell which shot was going to be played) he immediatly started to move to the back of the court so i just let the shuttle bounce off my racquet and won the point with a dumbfounded look on my face.

    i not entierly sure if that kinda falls into the catagorie of a deceptive shot, sorta kinda but maby? i guess i more so faked him by faking a fake.

  6. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivingBirdie View Post
    I remember there was once my opponent was anticipating that i'll return his shot with a drive to his partner, who is considerably weaker than him...(which i have done so many times previously in the game), but instead i did a deceptive shot by faking it away, but hitting to him. Turns out the shuttle passed behind him so easily Fooled

    There are also other situations when such shots are used effectively...even in pro matches sometimes they would fake a shot away but hit it to their opponent...so it may not be totally futile
    okay, one more time, I'm hoping I can put it in clear writing this time round

    When playing drops, clears and lifts, basic "building-shots" if you will, It is a wasted effort to fake a shot (drop clear lift) away from your opponent and then hit it towards him.
    Just one example: your opponent hits a cross clear form his forehand rearcorner to your forehand, faking a straight drop and clearing it crosscourt is useless.
    Another one, your opponent does a straight lift, you fake a cross-drop, but hit a straight smash (or sticksmash, or drop). Again, it might work, but on a general scale it's a wasted effort.

    (and by faking, I don't literally mean a dry swing, but just letting your racket and body position indicate a certain shot/angle/corner... I have no better word for it )

    Now, what you were all preying for, the exceptions:
    -drives to the body
    -smashes to the body
    -netshots
    -a lot of doublesplay (mostly involving the above mentioned exceptions)

    I was hoping to get my point across in one post, I apologize for my vague writing
    Last edited by jerby; 06-16-2008 at 05:04 AM.

  7. #41
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    When playing drops, clears and lifts, basic "building-shots" if you will, It is a wasted effort to fake a shot (drop clear lift) away from your opponent and then hit it towards him.
    This is a good principle. If you fake away from him and hit towards him, then he will probably recover despite being deceived (and if he's not deceived, you're really in trouble ).

    However, you must take into account that your opponent may change his position because of your fake; it depends how much time you have available to mislead him.

    In particular, if your opponent is late recovering, you should consider the position that he is moving towards, not just the position from where he last played a shot. And here's another principle:

    Fake the most threatening shot, then play something else. Your opponent will be compelled to cover the most dangerous shot (say, a straight spinning net shot), and then you can play something else (a lift).

    Both principles are useful. Actually, it might be interesting to write about the relationship between them...
    Last edited by Gollum; 06-16-2008 at 05:34 AM.

  8. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gollum View Post
    Both principles are useful. Actually, it might be interesting to write about the relationship between them...
    another article for your evergrowing badminton bible? a lil off topic, im sure you have probally been asked this many times by now i took a fast look at the homepage for your guide and the grip one at the bottom of the page the guy in the picture and throughout that section it is that you?

  9. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gollum View Post
    This is a good principle. If you fake away from him and hit towards him, then he will probably recover despite being deceived (and if he's not deceived, you're really in trouble ).

    However, you must take into account that your opponent may change his position because of your fake; it depends how much time you have available to mislead him.
    yes, he may change his position, and the fake may work. But consider the four corners, he is coming from B, you fake to A...Then why necessarily pick B again if his chances of recovering are so good? what's wrong with C and D?
    (now, off course, I've read your article, and pinning someone in a corner is useful surely, but with a successful work of deceiving him, another corner is likely to be more effective)

    Quote Originally Posted by gollum
    In particular, if your opponent is late recovering, you should consider the position that he is moving towards, not just the position from where he last played a shot. And here's another principle:

    Fake the most threatening shot, then play something else. Your opponent will be compelled to cover the most dangerous shot (say, a straight spinning net shot), and then you can play something else (a lift).

    Both principles are useful. Actually, it might be interesting to write about the relationship between them...
    very much agreeing on this one, a good principle.

  10. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerby View Post
    yes, he may change his position, and the fake may work. But consider the four corners, he is coming from B, you fake to A...Then why necessarily pick B again if his chances of recovering are so good? what's wrong with C and D?
    (now, off course, I've read your article, and pinning someone in a corner is useful surely, but with a successful work of deceiving him, another corner is likely to be more effective)
    You answered your own question.

    The hardest change of direction is moving back to the same corner. I agree that in most cases, you'd be better choosing a different corner; but in some cases, hitting to the same corner can be more effective.

    I'm thinking in particular of cross-court flicks from the net: your opponent is recovering by travelling a long diagonal towards the net, and then you flick (lift) the shuttle back to where he just came from.

    Yet this tactic can also be risky: you must be correct about deceiving him, or you'll suffer. His chances of recovering depend on the situation: how late is he? How early are you? What was the trajectory of his drop shot? How quickly is he moving forwards?

    Quote Originally Posted by smash_master View Post
    the guy in the picture and throughout that section it is that you?
    Yes.
    Last edited by Gollum; 06-16-2008 at 06:49 AM.

  11. #45
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    wait, in that particular case...was the drop straight, or cross?

    on a crossdrop, I'd prefer a straight flick to his other rearcorner.. Because you can allow your lift to have a flatter trajectory (without risking hitting it straight into his racket).
    lifting it back cross over him risks intercepting, of him suddenly stopping and having all the time in the world )

    on a straight drop, if you reach it fast enough, I'd say it's very dependent on the situation what's best (straight or cross)..But I guess that's just echoing what you said

  12. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerby View Post
    wait, in that particular case...was the drop straight, or cross?
    Cross.

    on a crossdrop, I'd prefer a straight flick to his other rearcorner.. Because you can allow your lift to have a flatter trajectory (without risking hitting it straight into his racket).
    lifting it back cross over him risks intercepting, of him suddenly stopping and having all the time in the world )
    Again, I agree that this is the better choice most of the time. The risk that you describe is very real and should not be taken lightly.

    But when your position is very good (probably after your opponent's drop was late and too slow), then the cross-court angles become effective because your opponent is rushing forwards and sideways; his footwork is disrupted and his ability to change direction is reduced. Playing a straight lift also requires him to change direction, but not sideways too.

    In this case, a cross-court flick may be better than a straight flick, because it takes maximum advantage of your opponent's movement problem. This should be played quite flat.

    This is not really a building shot, but more an attempted winner. I explain this subtlety about cross-court angles for winning shots on my page about winning the rally with movement pressure.

    But it's a very committal shot -- if you misjudge the situation, then you've just given your opponent an easy winner.

    I guess what I'm saying is this: your rule is a very good one, but there are exceptions. There are always exceptions.
    Last edited by Gollum; 06-16-2008 at 08:42 AM.

  13. #47
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    Would this be a viable form of deception; angling your body so that it looks like you'll do a crosscourt smash, but reverse slicing it so that it goes straight instead?

  14. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athelete1234 View Post
    Would this be a viable form of deception; angling your body so that it looks like you'll do a crosscourt smash, but reverse slicing it so that it goes straight instead?
    Yes, absolutely.

    The reverse slice will take a lot of the pace off the smash, so this deceptive straight smash will be slower. But that's not always a bad thing; the deception and the change in pace (like a very, very fast drop shot) can upset your opponent's defensive rhythm.

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