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  1. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smichz View Post
    True..just like i said,ppl in china who bought fake yonex r usually beginners.When they get better,they'll buy something else that's better.May it be apacs,flexpro,yonex,sotx,kason,etc..

    Another fact is that CH is not that popular in china,since it has a bad reputation for its paint job.Demands for TW,SP,IP,TH,JP is higher than the CH in the genuine yonex market.Ppl tend to be willing to spend a lil bit more to get something other than the CH.
    Does that mean that CH coded rackets are the worse quality?

  2. #19
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    I know a lot of players with fake rackets, and they are oblivious that they are. This should be stopped.
    Last edited by KazeCloud; 06-21-2008 at 07:17 PM.

  3. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by phandrew View Post
    Does that mean that CH coded rackets are the worse quality?
    Hehe..ppl just love the imported goods.Like in indonesia,if u have money,u'll pay for a JP rather the SP.However,CH in overall might do as well as the others,just the paint job.Ppl here think that the CH's paint doesn't last as long as the others.

  4. #21
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    Fake racquet..

    In Indonesia at my city, Yonex AR900T or P original sell for about USD 180 (SP product).

    And I just saw last week a fake Yonex AR900T and P for USD 32

    I have the AR900T the difference notice of fake AR900T/P with naked eye is the hole on the string about 10 and 2 O'clock is just in a straight line. Racquet paint no very noticeable unless if you see cleary the fake paint is a little bit outline. And also the seller said no string over 23lbs.

  5. #22
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    Default Motivation, Intention, Perception, Choice of people knowingly buying fakes

    If people did not want counterfeit rackets, then the supply of fake rackets will dry up because it is not profitable to produce them. But clearly this is not the case.

    Is it possible to convince counterfeit racket buyers to buy genuine rackets?

    I think everyone would agree, Yonex is the most well known brand, and among genuine racket users and counterfeit racket users, many would like to be using a Yonex racket. Why?
    - using Yonex is like a symbol of status:
    eg: I'm good enough to handle rackets that pros use
    eg: I'm a dedicated badminton player, and to show this, I must use the best brand that has a higher price tag, and I have the budget for it

    For such purposes, it's good enough for players to be holding a racket that looks the real thing:
    - nobody will be able to tell whether you're using a real one or not based on how well you play, and you'll look like a genuine racket user, which is your goal
    - you save money, and money spent on a real racket has a high opportunity cost; ie: a genuine Yonex racket is not a priority in terms of what a person needs or wants, if a counterfeit user were to earn the extra money that would be required for buying a real racket, they would use that extra money elsewhere because other things are more important. After all, badminton is just a sport, and it is more meaningful, for example, to spend the money on treating your girlfriend for a dinner & movie.

    Choosing between real rackets and fake rackets is like a game where:

    With a fake racket,
    1) you have little to lose(in terms of what you care about) by using a fake racket: if people know, who cares? You could justify, eg: tell everyone you didn't know it was fake, or that you don't really need a real racket, and worry about breaking a real one
    2) you have a lot to gain by using a fake racket: if people thinks you are using a real one, then you have left with the impression you are a dedicated player, and if you break one, you can buy another one

    whereas with a real racket,
    1) you have little to gain by using a real racket: perhaps the fake racket is not as good in terms of playability, but it doesn't affect you to warrant getting a real racket of any brand, or that when you play against someone using a real racket, you can defeat them and tell them, the skills are more important than the racket
    2) you have a lot to lose by using a real racket: the opportunity cost: you spend many hours to earn that money to buy the real racket, and there are better ways to use that money. Even if someone were to give you the money to buy the real racket, you'd buy the fake one, and pocket the difference.

    The choice is pretty simple.

    Another motivation: the counterfeit users may feel that Yonex doesn't deserve to make the money from them(perception that Yonex's profit margin is way too high), and other brands are not appealing enough, eg: their rackets do not play any better than fake rackets, or perhaps there isn't enough quality control.

    Can you convince the counterfeit users to buy real rackets of other brands?

    - With a lower price tag, some people will perceive them to be inferior, even though it is true, a higher price is not always indicative of higher quality.
    - even if the racket is reputed to play well, people may still want to be seen using a Yonex racket, and hope that other people will not notice their racket is a fake.
    - perhaps if Yonex stopped selling top rackets at a high price, then there will be less incentive to buy fake rackets. This would have to be on a global basis: if Yonex continues to sell $200 USD rackets for the top model(say Nanospeed 9000X) in US, but $50 USD rackets for the top model(say NCtuff 9) in China, this wouldn't work: people would buy a fake of the one in US

    My point: it's going to be challenging to convert the buyers who knowingly choose fake rackets

    What if counterfeits were outlawed?
    - would cost taxpayer's money to enforce, or Yonex would have to pay to enforce it, and the fake racket market will be too lucrative for sellers to give up (much like counterfeit DVD/CDs)

    It is probably best to leave people to their own choices. Like piracy of software, it doesn't hurt the company(those pirates could choose not to use your software, in which case the company wouldn't have earned their money anyway )

    Nonetheless, it's immoral to use counterfeit rackets (you are deceiving others after all), so maybe this would be a reason you can give to counterfeit buyers. But will morality be a good deterrent?

  6. #23
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    Wow, what a discussion!

    Counterfeits will be around, as always, as long as they can make money out of I. fresh buyers with no knowledge of brand or the product. II. People who deliberately use counterfeits as real thing for a fraction of the price III. People with money to spare and want to try out the fake stuffs.

    Generally speaking, large majority of people that I have seen using a counterfeit YY racket are type I and III.

    Recently, a shop was prosecuted by selling fake YY rackets. Apparently they have sold thousands of these fake rackets, bar that they are of high quality. I think to us buyers, the crime is not selling fakes, but selling fakes as the real deals. But unlike pirates DVD/CDs, those are exact copies of the genuine softwares whereas counterfeit rackets are of inferior quality.

    Anyway, I do think people should avoid using counterfeits, we are not talking about the price of a Rolex or an expensive Gucci handbag. Most people can actually afford at least a medium range YY racket nowadays, plus the large variety of other top brands, I can see that it would be more difficult for these manufacturers of fake rackets to survive. Also, to immitate the real thing is more difficult than the old days, so the manufacturing cost may go up as well. So it they are not making profit, then they stop doing it, that is as simple as that.

  7. #24
    Regular Member winstonchan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phandrew View Post
    If the fakes performed just as good as the real rackets and i would buy hundreds since they would only be 1/20 of the price and i would become the Marit Safin of badminton through my anger
    as long as there is more phandrews around, fakes will reign!!
    if there is demand, there will be supply. simple economics.

    yonex is not taking sufficient measure to clamp down fake manufacturers; i'm sure they can if they want to. perhaps yonex is allowing this to happen silently, because if your brand is being counterfeited, that means it's famous (like LV, Armani, Prada.... etc).

    moral? c'mon, we're all human, no one's perfect. what more can i say???

  8. #25
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    why? why? and why?? Yonex racquet is so damn expensive???? It is really because of the quality?? Or only because the branding??

    Two blank racquet, same colour, same material, one put YY brand, the other one, put Apacs brand, for Apacs one it costs only USD20, and for YY one it cost USD200 :P

    just as simple as that :P

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by NisroL_JR View Post
    why? why? and why?? Yonex racquet is so damn expensive???? It is really because of the quality?? Or only because the branding??

    Two blank racquet, same colour, same material, one put YY brand, the other one, put Apacs brand, for Apacs one it costs only USD20, and for YY one it cost USD200 :P

    just as simple as that :P
    FYI, YY actually make their higher end racquet in factory in Japan.
    Given that fact,
    1) The cost of labor is about 10x more in Japan than in China.
    2) Also, Yonex put money into their own R&D. APAC just paint a racquet to look like and name it sound like Yonex high end racquet.
    3) Yonex makes their own racquet. Yonex actually put the material it claim into the racquet, other clone might not.
    4) It cost money to maintain your name brand too.

    However, we are not here to talk about YY vs clone. We are talking about YY vs Fake/Counterfiet.

    Yes, it cost YY a lot more to make 1 racquet. So they make it worth your money. Would you like to see YY make their racquet in China just like Wilson and charge you $150 for it? Because Wilson and Prince are doing that with their tennis and badminton racquets.

  10. #27
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    Hahaha, it just to show my frustation why Yonex racquet is so expensive Dont be angry

    By the way, I've bought YYNS9000 before, just use it two or three times, not really satisfy with it, I sold it straight away, half price. I also have YYArmotec900T, also not really satisfy me, just keep it in my bag,this one I dont want to sell it, so I can show it to anyone, and say this is Taufik Hidayat's racquet :P

    At last, I've bought another brand, much2 more cheaper, and the important one, I really2 love it
    Last edited by NisroL_JR; 06-24-2008 at 12:33 PM.

  11. #28
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    Question What if????

    Maybe someday when a headline news reads......
    "Fake YY racket kills badminton player!"
    This will deter people/players from buying fake YY rackets!

    But, then again, it may not.

  12. #29
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    Mr. Nisrol,
    I am not mad or upset at you or anything. I am actually happy to know you actually find another brand's raquet fits you better. It is the badminton game we enjoy. I just hate to see people buying fake YY racquet and gets cheated.
    In your case, that is why we tell people to demo, borrow racquets before you make you decision.
    Thank you for your understanding.

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viper2005 View Post
    Maybe someday when a headline news reads......
    "Fake YY racket kills badminton player!"
    This will deter people/players from buying fake YY rackets!

    But, then again, it may not.
    It's already happened before. Not much has changed anyways.

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by NisroL_JR View Post
    why? why? and why?? Yonex racquet is so damn expensive???? It is really because of the quality?? Or only because the branding??

    Two blank racquet, same colour, same material, one put YY brand, the other one, put Apacs brand, for Apacs one it costs only USD20, and for YY one it cost USD200 :P

    just as simple as that :P
    i doubt the store sold u the apacs for 20 USD. You prolly bot it from an non authorized source.

    U generalized too, u didnt compared to specific model.
    I have bot some yonex cabs for 45 USD
    Last edited by cooler; 06-24-2008 at 02:46 PM.

  15. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    i doubt the store sold u the apacs for 20 USD. You prolly bot it from an non authorized source.

    U generalized too, u didnt compared to specific model.
    I have bot some yonex cabs for 45 USD
    Sorry for not type "for example" !! before I post the reply

  16. #33
    Regular Member winstonchan's Avatar
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    i wonder when Yonex will do something like this to clamp down those motherfakers...

    eBay Fined 30m Over Designer Fakes

    Updated:14:46, Monday June 30, 2008
    <H2>A Paris court has ordered eBay to pay out around 30m for allowing fake designer goods to be sold on the auction website.

    </H2> The real thing: Louis Vuitton bags


    The luxury firm Louis Vuitton and its sister company Christian Dior as well as four of its perfume brands - Dior, Guerlain, Givenchy and Kenzo - sued the website for "culpable negligence".
    They accused the site of putting on sale fake handbags, clothes and other luxuy goods and of illicit sales of perfumes in a case that began over a year ago.

    The handbag and luggage section of Louis Vuitton had demanded compensation of around 20m and Dior's couture section wanted 17m.
    eBay, the world's largest online auctioneer, was ordered to pay Louis Vitton 15m and 13m to Dior.
    It must also pay around 2m to the four perfume brands. The site plans to appeal against the ruling.

    The companies said eBay knowingly let people use the site to sell fake bags, lipstick, perfumes and clothes purporting to be from the famous names.
    The court case was originally three separate ones that France's justice system judged should be dealt with all together because of their similarities.
    The verdict came after a flurry of legal action against the online giant, which claims to have some 84 million active users in 39 markets worldwide.
    Earlier this month, eBay was convicted by a French court of selling counterfeit goods and ordered to pay 20,000 in damages to French luxury group Hermes.

    And last September, the cosmetics giant L'Oreal launched legal action against eBay in five European countries including France, over the sale of bottles of counterfeit perfume.
    Hugely successful, eBay says that in 2007 the total value of items sold on its platform was nearly 30bn.

    source from SkyNews Monday 30 June 2008

  17. #34
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    I hardly notice any fake Yonex when I was visiting China last year, but instead I see a good numbers of Yonex wannabe brand names there. Where they have an almost identical point job and similar code naming, something like Nana Power 10000 or shoes like SHB 999. But for the least they are branding after their own name so it is not fake IMO. (Like Hi Phone and Vii )

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