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  1. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by viver View Post
    Can you identify some examples of Chinese players using mostly floating footwork and Indonesian players using stick to the ground footwork. Reason for asking this is, I don't see current Indonesian players (since the 90's) footwork being different from Chinese players.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdaiUsqJJ4M here a match between Bao Chun Lai and Taufik. BCL is springing most of the time while Taufik is "low" most of the time.

  2. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    That will have a change in his state of mind, which will affect his game for either the better or worse. In competitive sports the mind or state of mind is very important.
    If you play table tennis you will understand. The ability to stay relaxed, in mind and in all your body tissues, can enable you to smash impossible shots and to defend and counter-attack at lightning speed with confidence and ease. But once your mind goes into a seizure, especially from self-induced pressure, your muscles behave and stiffen as if they don't belong to you.
    I know exactly what you mean, I experienced it just last week. I was playing against my opponent in singles, and I beat her 11-3 first set, but her team-mates started playing around in the background and it distracted me. I told them to stop doing it, but they started arguing back. I was really put off, and I lost the other two sets 1-11 and 0-11. Could this Tai Chi concept be useful for table tennis as well ?

    No wonder, flash photography is banned in most badminton tournaments.

    I'm with this whole 'mind set' concenpt, I've experienced the above example quite a few times and I'm sure that others have as well. When I don't think of anything (technique, atmosphere, people, tactics), I play at my best ( from my experience).
    This would relate to this thread, but I find it very hard not to 'think' or to be 'put off'. Perhaps, Gollum's advice can help us in this case, not to be manipulated by the opponent.

  3. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by footimy View Post
    May I suggest this, get in to the court and don think about winning, think about "just take the shot" it doesn't matter where ur shot is, make it the simplest shot, just let the shuttle past the net (don put it accurately or beautifully) you will see how easy badminton is.

    Tai Chi is a simple concept about "don use hard to defeat hard, utilize the hard to defeat hard" but to implement it on court is another thing. One must have a very solid foundation in badminton, to effectively use Tai Chi concept.
    Thank you for replying.

    One good/bad thing on Internet is that we don't see each other and can't see how we play. I played badminton for over 30 years and trust me, when I go into a court today the last thing in my mind is to win the game. Today I play badminton just for my enjoyment only.

    A question I have on this is, if we do not think about winning in badminton, then why do we need to practice and improve our skills? Do we practice to participate in tournaments only, and results do not count?

    'Easy' play is very subjective. What 'easy' means to you may not necessarily have the same meaning to me. Getting the shuttle over the net is also easy to say but not that easy to do/accomplish, but not sure if you agree.

    My apologies to your explanation about Tai Chi - I still don't get it. What is the meaning of "don use hard to defeat hard, utilize the hard to defeat hard" and how can you achieve it?

    And when you mention foundations in badminton, can you please put a few more details regarding foundations. I am afraid when we speak foundations here, there is different understanding about foundations. What you consider as foundations, how your Tai Chi differs from the normal foundations of the current badminton skills.


    Quote Originally Posted by footimy View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdaiUsqJJ4M here a match between Bao Chun Lai and Taufik. BCL is springing most of the time while Taufik is "low" most of the time.
    Actually I can't see the 'difference' of their footwork - did not watch the whole clip. Basically they are using same style of footwork, interpreted in a different way. If we consider the 'with initiative' (zhu dong). 'without initiative' (bei dong), 'the transitional' ('guo dou') footwork patterns, both are doing very well. Only that Taufik is more efficient with his efforts (better anticipation?) and knows very well when to change the pace when needed.

    Still not clear what you mean by Tai Chi 'floating' and 'stick to the ground' footwork.
    Last edited by viver; 08-26-2008 at 05:44 PM.

  4. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by footimy View Post
    Huabu means "skate on the court", "stick to the ground" will help you "defend on the court" while "floating" will prepare you for an attacking game, combine this two footwork you will have "Hua Bu".
    Oh. Ok. Thanks. Then probably I don't understand the difference.... Does it have to do with centre of gravity? Or is it more subtle/complex?

  5. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by footimy View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdaiUsqJJ4M here a match between Bao Chun Lai and Taufik. BCL is springing most of the time while Taufik is "low" most of the time.
    What I'm seeing is something different from "sticking or floating";

    Bao is trying to get hold of the initiative, getting to shuttles early and making pace.
    Taufik is a lot more relaxed and a bit defensive.

    But when you go to 1:45min, you see Taufik grabbing initiative, and suddenly starts jumping and starting (floating, if you wil)

    So, in short. I think you are correct in your observation, the two 'styles' of footwork.
    But if you ask me, we all use both, depending on whether or not you have the initiative.

  6. #108
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    obviously, your surroundings and your mindset will help you play better.
    there is anger for instance. if your are angry with your play than it will get even worse but if you r angry at anything other than than badding than u can channel the emotions into ur play. although it can have adverse effects
    crowds affect my game very much. if someone is booing me, i will start playing worse but if someone is applauding i will play better. my opponent's response will also matter.
    there is something called a "spring in one's step". it comes someda into ur body and u reach everything and frustrate ur opponent.
    any emotion if channeled effectively will create results

  7. #109
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    i think one guy often creats a no-flow is this indonesian mixed player (older guy) -- the second most successful pair in mixed from indonesia at the moment.

  8. #110
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    sorry for off topic...for those duno tai chi...tai chi is not a slow moving martial art...if u really face a tai chi master...or someone know tai chi...u will ko in no time...seriously......if u really think tai chi is a slow one......when they perform tai chi...in slow form...is because for performing...in real combat/fight...haha...u will know if u try to challenge one...

  9. #111
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    Off-topic: Tai chi seems cool.. there's a sword involved right? xD

    On Topic: This dosen't really seem new. I THINK I understand what you're getting at.. but isn't this just the difference of a relaxed defensive compared to a very stiff offensive player? It also sounds just like deception.. I think almost everyone would use deception when they do a drop shot from the back. Maybe you should make or link everyone to a video so they can better understand you if this isn't where you're getting at.

    Off-topic: In that video Taufik looks like he dosen't try that hard until he loses 2 points in the game o.o He was mainly defensive and looked sort of relaxed too.

  10. #112
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    I am not an expert on martial arts, but I think Tai Chi is considered as one of the biggest schools of Chinese Martial Arts. The emphasis is on breathing and using circular movements that neutralizes the opponent strikes. The saying applied to Tai Chi is, well literally - using 3 'liang' to push away 1,000 'jin'. The question is as one of the masters put it 'Do you know if you have this 3 'liang' of strength?' (laing and jin are weight measurements in China, may be replaced with 'grams' and 'kilos' as example).

    This question of '3 liang of strength' I think, can be applied to any kind of martial arts and maybe sports, badminton included. Is not the just saying is slow moving or fast moving style. Is about anticipation, skills technique, strength, timing, speed, accuracy of the response - wheter of a punch/kick strike or reply to a smash in badminton.

    So far, if you have read through out the thread, the question was mainly on the new theories in Tai Chi badminton. I have not found any and what was said here, I have learned 30 years ago when under a professional coach.

    PS: Have you heard, back in the 70's, a group of Chinese Martial arts practitioners challenging Muay Thai boxers? I think 1 lasted about a minute in the ring and all others went down between 10 to 30 seconds.



    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    sorry for off topic...for those duno tai chi...tai chi is not a slow moving martial art...if u really face a tai chi master...or someone know tai chi...u will ko in no time...seriously......if u really think tai chi is a slow one......when they perform tai chi...in slow form...is because for performing...in real combat/fight...haha...u will know if u try to challenge one...

  11. #113
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    i second that. *15char

    Quote Originally Posted by Gollum View Post
    Yes; and there should be enough room for people to criticise those ideas too. Freedom of speech cuts both ways.

    I have to agree with jerby here. Footimy seems hellbent on presenting familiar and simple ideas under the grandiloquent guise of martial arts spiritualism.

    More annoyingly, he's adopted the patronising "It's okay if you can't understand my advanced concept" approach. I get it. Really, I do. I just don't find it enlightening, because I already understand the relevant badminton concepts and see little value in adding a layer of mysticism on top of them.

    Nevertheless, I do feel that comparisons with other disciplines can be interesting. Tai Chi could be a fruitful metaphor for badminton. Unfortunately, that's a discussion that footimy seems unwilling to enter: he doesn't want to make connections with existing ideas; he wants his theory to be the One True Way.

    And that's what irritates me -- the sheer audacity of his claims. He's not just saying, "it's interesting to compare badminton with Tai Chi"; he's saying, "I have discovered this amazing new way of playing badminton. An entirely new concept."

    Well, excuse me for being cynical; but there's nothing new under the sun. Your "new concept" is simply a fancy-pants interpretation of ordinary badminton ideas.

  12. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by viver View Post
    PS:Have you heard, back in the 70's, a group of Chinese Martial arts practitioners challenging Muay Thai boxers? I think 1 lasted about a minute in the ring and all others went down between 10 to 30 seconds.
    well...those true master wont challenge here and there...when we start practice,ours coach told us not to simply fight with others...u can defence urself,but cannot be offensive......this is the 2nd most important rule when u learn martial art/wushu...so...i dont think they are...erm...dunno how to say...

    p/s...chinese martial art not equal to tai chi......there are hundred kind of kung fu in china...thats from my knowledges...it might exceed thousand....cz i just a small kids...dunno more abt tat......sorry for of topic..

    well...on topic...i will try this next time on court...

  13. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    well...those true master wont challenge here and there...when we start practice,ours coach told us not to simply fight with others...u can defence urself,but cannot be offensive......this is the 2nd most important rule when u learn martial art/wushu...so...i dont think they are...erm...dunno how to say...

    p/s...chinese martial art not equal to tai chi......there are hundred kind of kung fu in china...thats from my knowledges...it might exceed thousand....cz i just a small kids...dunno more abt tat......sorry for of topic..

    well...on topic...i will try this next time on court...
    Tai Chi is one of the many schools (Wu Dang?) of Chinese Martial Arts and very famous. I saw a documentary in National Geographic where scientists were studying the benefits of practicing Tai Chi. If I have the time I would be interested in learning Tai Chi as well - not for fighting of course.

    My point about the people challenging the Muay Thai fighters is mainly about the training. The Muay Thai fighters were physically much fitter and faster. Technique alone is not enough.

    The same principle applies to badminton. Many players have very good skills, the best players are not only good in skills but also excellent in physical fitness.
    Last edited by viver; 01-05-2009 at 02:39 AM.

  14. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by viver View Post
    Tai Chi is one of the many schools (Wu Dang?) of Chinese Martial Arts and very famous. I saw a documentary in National Geographic where scientists were studying the benefits of practicing Tai Chi. If I have the time I would be interested in learning Tai Chi as well - not for fighting of course.

    My point about the people challenging the Muay Thai fighters is mainly about the training. The Muay Thai fighters were physically much fitter and faster. Technique alone is not enough.

    The same principle applies to badminton. Many players have very good skills, the best players are not only good in skills but also excellent in physical fitness.
    much fitter and faster???...ok... u go learn tai chi 1st...before u come here to reply me...

  15. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by viver View Post
    The saying applied to Tai Chi is, well literally - using 3 'liang' to push away 1,000 'jin'.
    Err... you talking about blocking a smash?? Sometimes I use 2.5 'liang' and it goes into the net. When LCW uses 3.2 'liang', he kena netkill by LD.

  16. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by weeyeh View Post
    Err... you talking about blocking a smash?? Sometimes I use 2.5 'liang' and it goes into the net. When LCW uses 3.2 'liang', he kena netkill by LD.
    My reaction to the smashes is 'Good shot!'... Goes to pick-up the shuttle and return to the opponent(s) to start the service.

  17. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by weeyeh View Post
    Err... you talking about blocking a smash?? Sometimes I use 2.5 'liang' and it goes into the net. When LCW uses 3.2 'liang', he kena netkill by LD.
    I was actually working at home and was tired - did not read properly your post.

    If you use 2.5 'liang' , I would think your return could go either to the net or could go over the net high, for an easy kill - pray for a miracle and hope the other guy hit the net.

    If LCW uses 3.2 'liang' for his return, hmm, provided the timing is good he should return the smash with ease. The extra 0.2 'liang' will allow LCW to place the shuttle in a way that will create a strong challenge for LD to return.

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