MK/HS: Bright future ahead?

**badMania** · 10-28-2008, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by ye333

You see, the situation is that, except for Jung/Lee, all other pairs have to be "in their best" to challenge a normal MK/HS. What happens when MK/HS is in "their best"? Who can stop them? I would say only Jung/Lee.

The past DO final clearly shows that SY/FHF just cannot keep up with MK/HS and were sent into every corner of the court.

The only concern for MK/HS is their consistency (throughout the season and throughout a match). But they seem to be improving on this during the past year.

I agree that a re-match between Kido/Hendra and Jung/Lee will be worth a watch

What I don't agree is that it's implied that even if Kido/Hendra is at their best, they will still be unable to match Jung/Lee (as suggested by our LYD fan here). What's more interesting is that the KOR pair has already mastered the techniques to beat all INA, MAS, and CHN pairs; only to lose out to the aging Danes. How ironic that is.....

Again, I don't disagree with your last point on consistency. It does seem to me that the INA pair will only find their best form after the mid-year (in 2005-2008 at least). So far, I can only recall them winning 1 title before June, that's the MAS SS 2008. ALL the titles they had won were tournaments held after June

As for consistency during the match...I guess it affects all pairs, including the KOR pair. You also commented that if Koo/Tan and Kido/Hendra were to have 1.5 solid games against the KOR pair, they would have won the matches in the BAC and Swiss Open Finals this year, given their dominance in the first-set

**ye333** · 10-28-2008, 09:59 AM

I would say that Chinese MDs are best in the consistency throughout a match. I guess that's because of their style. After them are the Korean pairs.

Originally Posted by badMania

As for consistency during the match...I guess it affects all pairs, including the KOR pair. You also commented that if Koo/Tan and Kido/Hendra were to have 1.5 solid games against the KOR pair, they would have won the matches in the BAC and Swiss Open Finals this year, given their dominance in the first-set

**narnia** · 10-28-2008, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by badadum

One of the rare occasion badMania get worked up

Head to Head, they're even at 3-3, so I think this paragraph summed it up nicely:

This tells the status quo. Some guy like badMania likes to live in the past reflecting the games in the past. (Don't say about the games after Olympic, which were of mainly minor players or splitted teams.) Among 3-3, anybody knows the recent games care much more in this rapidly changing world of badminton: 2 games this year won by KOR, which tells the true story. I'm just talking about head-to-head between THE TWO TEAMS.

Anyone can list up all their winning games against blah blah teams... Just compare the two teams to each other.

FYI, just check out the scoring data of those recent two games if you want to know how strong the KOR team was against INA. INA just got tired out after winning a single set after much efforts. That was their limitation.

**narnia** · 10-28-2008, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by ye333

I would say that Chinese MDs are best in the consistency throughout a match. I guess that's because of their style. After them are the Korean pairs.

I agree with you.

Especially, Kido is a fault-factory, who is a good target for their opponents. He makes many unforced errors mainly he's trying to approach to the net. HS is more consistent. So, the game's winning usually depends on how much Kido is in good form on that day. That fact is completely known to KOR. Please watch the videos. I watched them tens of times in both perspectives. By 2007, LYD was 18-19 yrs old under learning. JJS was inconsistent in his defense and net play like Kido but this year his front skills were tremendously improved to prove their strength as all of you watch it through the series of the games.

**badadum** · 10-28-2008, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by narnia

I agree with you.

Especially, Kido is a fault-factory, who is a good target for their opponents. He makes many unforced errors mainly he's trying to approach to the net. HS is more consistent. So, the game's winning usually depends on how much Kido is in good form on that day. That fact is completely known to KOR. Please watch the videos. I watched them tens of times in both perspectives. By 2007, LYD was 18-19 yrs old under learning. JJS was inconsistent in his defense and net play like Kido but this year his front skills were tremendously improved to prove their strength as all of you watch it through the series of the games.

And for all their improvement, what happened to them during OG? Crash and burn in the 1st round to the aging Danes pair. I guess they just doesn't know how to play the Danes despite all the videos and analyst available to them (especially after the TC loss).

Talk is cheap, but at the end of the day, the korean pair failed miserably at the grandest event in Badminton. That's the fact.

**badadum** · 10-28-2008, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by narnia

This tells the status quo. Some guy like badMania likes to live in the past reflecting the games in the past. (Don't say about the games after Olympic, which were of mainly minor players or splitted teams.) Among 3-3, anybody knows the recent games care much more in this rapidly changing world of badminton: 2 games this year won by KOR, which tells the true story. I'm just talking about head-to-head between THE TWO TEAMS.

Anyone can list up all their winning games against blah blah teams... Just compare the two teams to each other.

FYI, just check out the scoring data of those recent two games if you want to know how strong the KOR team was against INA. INA just got tired out after winning a single set after much efforts. That was their limitation.

Reflecting games in the past?? We're talking about the OG here, where JJS/LYD can't even advance from the 1st round. That's hardly 2 months ago! Its not MK/HS fault that JJS/LYD need longer time to recuperate and just play within the confine of their nation.

Besides, with JJS joining the army and getting older, do you really think he can continue keeping up with the so-called ever changing pace of the badminton world?

**badMania** · 10-28-2008, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by ye333

I would say that Chinese MDs are best in the consistency throughout a match. I guess that's because of their style. After them are the Korean pairs.

In that case...how would you comment on Fu/Cai's collapse in the Olympic Games Final, after such a dominant first set? That's one indication of consistency as well, if I read you correctly.

Consistency throughout a match will require maintaining full consistency, which will be hard even for the best pair to do. Even Tony/Candra and Candra/Sigit at their best can't claim that they can maintain their consistency throughout a match. esp when facing fellow top pairs.

**badMania** · 10-28-2008, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by narnia

Especially, Kido is a fault-factory, who is a good target for their opponents. He makes many unforced errors mainly he's trying to approach to the net. HS is more consistent. So, the game's winning usually depends on how much Kido is in good form on that day. That fact is completely known to KOR. Please watch the videos. I watched them tens of times in both perspectives. By 2007, LYD was 18-19 yrs old under learning. JJS was inconsistent in his defense and net play like Kido but this year his front skills were tremendously improved to prove their strength as all of you watch it through the series of the games.

You should read the Chinese's fans comments about Jung Jae Sung in particular (if you can understand Chinese of course

).

There's always a weak link in every partnership and I believe our INA coaches also know what's the weakness in the KOR pair

Unfortunately, despite the superb and outstanding skills that Lee Yong Dae and Jung Jae Sung possess, you still can't deny the fact that they lost to an over-aged Danish pair in the first round of Olympics, who recently lost to a scratch pairing of Fu Haifeng/Shen Ye. This is something that of course did not happen to our "weak" INA pair. Well said indeed.

**badMania** · 10-28-2008, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by narnia

FYI, just check out the scoring data of those recent two games if you want to know how strong the KOR team was against INA. INA just got tired out after winning a single set after much efforts. That was their limitation.

.....well said....and the limitation of the KOR pair is that they were not able to overcome a veteran Danish pair...losing in straight-sets

So a mental collapse? Unable to bear the burden? That's something that Kido/Hendra unfortunately did prove at Beijing.....no mental collapse, just business done.

**bananakid** · 10-28-2008, 11:08 AM

WOW... the way you guys kept mentioning the words "over-aged", "old", and all the other nasty things about how JR/LP are not as good any more... I wonder if you guys ever care about Jonas' feelings here considering he is still supposed to be a member in BC.

and people in this forum think I don't care about others' feelings...LOL

Bottom line is this:
MK/HS has not reached the level of success of:

1. LCW (who is now a datuk)
2. LD (who is now making millions of $$$)
3. LYB (who is now controlling the biggest badminton team in the world)
4. Hafiz Hashim (who has made more $$$ from winning 1 AE than MK/HS for winning a lot more tournaments)
5. 1992 MAS thomas cup team (who even got land as reward)

LOL...

**badMania** · 10-28-2008, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by bananakid

WOW... the way you guys kept mentioning the words "over-aged", "old", and all the other nasty things about how they are not as good any more... I wonder if you guys ever care about Jonas' feelings here considering he is still supposed to be a member in BC.

and people in this forum think I don't care about others' feelings...LOL

Well, I apologize if I have hurt Jonas's feeling

Ok...I will replace my description of Paaske/Rasmussen with just a single "veteran" to avoid any bad feeling

**eaglehelang** · 10-28-2008, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by badadum

And for all their improvement, what happened to them during OG? Crash and burn in the 1st round to the aging Danes pair. I guess they just doesn't know how to play the Danes despite all the videos and analyst available to them (especially after the TC loss).

Talk is cheap, but at the end of the day, the korean pair failed miserably at the grandest event in Badminton. That's the fact.

Lars/Jonas do have a way to beat them, that LYD/JJS havent been able to counter yet. They commented sthing abt it after the OG win. The experienced ehem.... younger uncles sure have some tricks up their sleeves.

**nick.h** · 10-28-2008, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Dato Asbullah

Yes. He is from INA. What's the problem?

yes he is indonesian and its a fact...and im sure i didnt its a problem...whats your problem?

**ye333** · 10-28-2008, 12:30 PM

They used too much energy in the 1st game, and MK/HS "woke up" in the 2nd. So I don't think that's an indication of CY/FHF being inconsistent. CY/FHF vs MK/HS, although the result may vary a little bit, in the past 2 - 3 years the situation on court is always the same...

Originally Posted by badMania

In that case...how would you comment on Fu/Cai's collapse in the Olympic Games Final, after such a dominant first set? That's one indication of consistency as well, if I read you correctly.

Consistency throughout a match will require maintaining full consistency, which will be hard even for the best pair to do. Even Tony/Candra and Candra/Sigit at their best can't claim that they can maintain their consistency throughout a match. esp when facing fellow top pairs.

**badadum** · 10-28-2008, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by bananakid

WOW... the way you guys kept mentioning the words "over-aged", "old", and all the other nasty things about how JR/LP are not as good any more... I wonder if you guys ever care about Jonas' feelings here considering he is still supposed to be a member in BC.

and people in this forum think I don't care about others' feelings...LOL

Bottom line is this:
MK/HS has not reached the level of success of:

1. LCW (who is now a datuk)
2. LD (who is now making millions of $$$)
3. LYB (who is now controlling the biggest badminton team in the world)
4. Hafiz Hashim (who has made more $$$ from winning 1 AE than MK/HS for winning a lot more tournaments)
5. 1992 MAS thomas cup team (who even got land as reward)

LOL...

Sorry, didn't know we' were discussing nothing but $$$ here....

Compare Jonas/Lars's current form to their World Champion's year and even they will admit there's a difference. No one is immune to the effect of aging. And by badminton's standard, they do qualify for the "uncle" status.

Nonetheless, I seriously doubt they're as petty as you think.

MK/HS will be fine. They have accomplished a great task continuing INA's gold tradition and they did receive handsome reward for it. They also still have years to improve their skills and achievement.

**narnia** · 10-28-2008, 07:14 PM

Some guy doesn't understand the point: Just check recent head-to-head scores among the top 3 only: KOR, INA, CHN. Only that tells the true story who has fear against who, if you have any understanding of that the fear and confidence is the ultimate fighting source for the real top rankers.

**badadum** · 10-28-2008, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by narnia

Some guy doesn't understand the point: Just check recent head-to-head scores among the top 3 only: KOR, INA, CHN. Only that tells the true story who has fear against who, if you know the fear and confidence is the ultimate source for the top players.

In the last 2 years:
MK/HS vs LYD/JJS = 3-3
MK/HS vs CY/FHF 3-1
CY/FHF vs LYD/JJS = 3-2

OG Gold -> MK/HS = 1 (LYD/JJS = 0, CY/FHF = 0)
World Championship title -> MK/HS = 1 (LYD/JJS = 0, CY/FHF = 1).

Why should MK/HS fear anyone? They're the #1 ranked pair, the world champion and the OG Gold medalist.They don't fear a pair that they beat for the gold medal, and certainly nothing to fear from a pair that can't even make it pass the 1st round of the olympic, especially now since one half of that pair can't even commit to badminton full time.