Mavis 500 - they're actually ok

**capricorn8** · 04-07-2009, 07:20 PM

I've just moved to Toronto from the Philippines bringing along with me a tube of feather shuttlecocks. I was surprised on my first visit to a badminton court here. I'm the only one using feathers!?

I went to SportChek to replenish my feathers but I only saw Mavis nylons. I'm very hesitant to switch to nylons so I would like to know which nylon shuttlecock plays closest to feathers?

***kwun*** · 04-07-2009, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by malayali

Here we go again!!!!!!!!!!!!

Someone needs to get them a room & get it over with!!!!

aye....

everyone, please keep the discussion civil and respectful, keep all arguments logical and sensical, or else...

**taneepak** · 04-08-2009, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by capricorn8

I've just moved to Toronto from the Philippines bringing along with me a tube of feather shuttlecocks. I was surprised on my first visit to a badminton court here. I'm the only one using feathers!?

I went to SportChek to replenish my feathers but I only saw Mavis nylons. I'm very hesitant to switch to nylons so I would like to know which nylon shuttlecock plays closest to feathers?

Now you know why badminton is not progressing well in North America.
I am afraid to say there are no nylons that come close to feathers. Of course you can still get feathers in Toronto or have them shipped over from Asia.
My advice is to stay away from nylons because that is the surest way to unlearn all the strokes you have learned in the Philippines.

***kwun*** · 04-08-2009, 02:45 AM

i'd like to correct some false claims here.

firstly, while the penetration of plastic is higher here in the US, it is not as exaggerated as taneepak has said. in the US, at least the places where i have played, 90% of players uses feathers. in fact, it would be very strange to bring a plastic into our games. this would include all of California which is the current heartland of badminton in the US.

the reason why we have more plastic is mostly due to students. the high school varsity league here uses plastic shuttles. i think they standardized on Yonex Mavis. this is understandable as most high school teams are budget conscious and they cannot afford thousands of dollars of feather shuttle. in fact, this was also the case in the UK when i used to play there.

any junior players who are serious with badminton training are training with feathers outside of school. all the juniors in the US team are using feathers.

so to claim that badminton in the US is not advancing because we are using plastic is totally false.

**zqcebtmu** · 04-08-2009, 04:16 AM

I also agree with kwun, generally, in my area, the developing players usually play with plastic birdies as they do not want to spend extra to just play for fun. 90% of the advanced players play with feather here.

**twobeer** · 04-08-2009, 05:34 AM

Interesting point by Kwun!

This is same old same old.. Feather vs. plastic shuttles "iteration" of arguments..

Being "against" plastic is kind of being "against" tennis to me.. It is not really the same game as using shuttles approved for tournament play by the world badminton federation, but it is a game.. And people of course have the right to enjoy it, just as they have the right to enjoy Tennis or other games..

However I get annoyed when people try to downlplay the difference in flight etc. On Mavis shuttles compared to feathers.. Maybe it is just that these players are not skilled enough to recognize how different they fly and behave, and how much that affects the game-play and tactics ?!?!

My hope is that We will get better and better artificial shuttles (seems the Mavis 2000, is a small step in that direction), but if people "accept" the current quality there will be no commercial incentive to improve these artificiall shuttles..

It's kind of like the old saying "10 billion flies can't be wrong, **** tastes good" :-) .If people just keeps buying these....

My hope is that badminton players arent "cheap" and open their wallets and use good equipment (both good shuttles, rackets and strings) and play on real courts..

Not that i see anything wrong with people enjoying "badminton" on their lawn or with plastic shuttles etc.
But I think for the sport and for the industry the more players playing on real courts, with real equipment the better for the future of the sport!!

And I think the sport is more enjoyable with good court, racket and shuttles...

/Twobeer

**capricorn8** · 04-08-2009, 07:03 AM

At this point I have to agree with taneepak. I'm afraid to unlearn the strokes, skills, strategy as a result of switching to nylons. The observation made by kwun and zqcebtmu that 90% of advanced players in the US still use feathers is a testament that feathers are still the best and conform with how badminton should be played.

Now it makes me think, how will Taufik Hidayat and Lin Dan play with nylons?

**taneepak** · 04-08-2009, 09:08 AM

I was walking along a small patch of public park today, and lo and behold I saw 4 pairs of players playing with Mavis nylon (yellow colour). The small park was almost completely taken up by the players. The players were in casuals and some just wore slippers. There was a group of Indian players, one of them was pretty good. After a game the pairs would pass their racquet over to another pair, and in between games they would run around the small park for fun.
Out of curiousity I asked to have a few shots. I can tell you plastics is not badminton. The feel, touch and almost all the strokes are not there with plastics. For example, with feathers the shuttle leaves the racquet face with great crispness and speed and it then slows down dramatically as it nears the net when you execute a deceptive reverse slice drop shot-a combination of fast initial speed and then a spinning slow speed vertical drop that is hard to read. With plastics, the nylon leaves the racquet dead with a very slow turnover and then the reverse slice drop is a joke as it drops nowhere. There is absolutely no deception with the reverse slice drop. You can read every stroke your opponent makes. I feel as if I am hitting a kind of stone. With high clears they all land out by a wide margin. And who says that a good plastic is better than a cheap feather? This is an incredulous claim. Any battered feather is anytime better than a new Mavis 500.

**Armor_tec_14** · 04-08-2009, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by kwun

i'd like to correct some false claims here.

firstly, while the penetration of plastic is higher here in the US, it is not as exaggerated as taneepak has said. in the US, at least the places where i have played, 90% of players uses feathers. in fact, it would be very strange to bring a plastic into our games. this would include all of California which is the current heartland of badminton in the US.

the reason why we have more plastic is mostly due to students. the high school varsity league here uses plastic shuttles. i think they standardized on Yonex Mavis. this is understandable as most high school teams are budget conscious and they cannot afford thousands of dollars of feather shuttle. in fact, this was also the case in the UK when i used to play there.

any junior players who are serious with badminton training are training with feathers outside of school. all the juniors in the US team are using feathers.

so to claim that badminton in the US is not advancing because we are using plastic is totally false.

I ALWAYS train with feather shuttles but if I am going to play with my brother or friends.. using feathers all the time is just not logical.

**cooler** · 04-08-2009, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by taneepak

I was walking along a small patch of public park today, and lo and behold I saw 4 pairs of players playing with Mavis nylon (yellow colour). The small park was almost completely taken up by the players. The players were in casuals and some just wore slippers. There was a group of Indian players, one of them was pretty good. After a game the pairs would pass their racquet over to another pair, and in between games they would run around the small park for fun.
Out of curiousity I asked to have a few shots. I can tell you plastics is not badminton. The feel, touch and almost all the strokes are not there with plastics. For example, with feathers the shuttle leaves the racquet face with great crispness and speed and it then slows down dramatically as it nears the net when you execute a deceptive reverse slice drop shot-a combination of fast initial speed and then a spinning slow speed vertical drop that is hard to read. With plastics, the nylon leaves the racquet dead with a very slow turnover and then the reverse slice drop is a joke as it drops nowhere. There is absolutely no deception with the reverse slice drop. You can read every stroke your opponent makes. I feel as if I am hitting a kind of stone. With high clears they all land out by a wide margin. And who says that a good plastic is better than a cheap feather? This is an incredulous claim. Any battered feather is anytime better than a new Mavis 500.

it just only prove u r less skilled playing with plastic shuttle. It doesn't prove you a pro in feather playing.

**cooler** · 04-08-2009, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by twobeer

Interesting point by Kwun!

This is same old same old.. Feather vs. plastic shuttles "iteration" of arguments..

Being "against" plastic is kind of being "against" tennis to me.. It is not really the same game as using shuttles approved for tournament play by the world badminton federation, but it is a game.. And people of course have the right to enjoy it, just as they have the right to enjoy Tennis or other games..

However I get annoyed when people try to downlplay the difference in flight etc. On Mavis shuttles compared to feathers.. Maybe it is just that these players are not skilled enough to recognize how different they fly and behave, and how much that affects the game-play and tactics ?!?!

/Twobeer

i don't know who's that person u are referring to on downplaying the difference in flight of the 2 kind of shuttles, definitely not me. I have made countless posts on the technical differences between feather and nylon, not only about their flight but even down to the impact point. When mavis 2000 came out, i even said, without even touching one, that it will still play like a nylon shuttle. Having the same speed rating (same testing distance) doesn't mean similar to feather at all. I know the difference between playing feather and mavis, i make mental adjustment when playing them. I have tried to point out the difference to a few feather players when they were forced to play plastic at times, they just look at me with blank stare.

Yes, i dont deny that bwf approved feather shuttle usage for star tournaments. However, since i started badminton, i have heard bwf tried to introduce nylon shuttle into certain bwf tournaments as trial TWICE, both time the issue faded away. This is not because bwf decreed no plastic, it is because the pro circuit players refuse to use it or make changes for it. Therefore, in this case, don't say BWF approving feather shuttle only when they have tried to inject nylon into tournaments. The resistance only prove changes are hard to take on by the pros.

**Tsumaranai** · 04-08-2009, 11:29 AM

You're merely showing a lack of adaptation. As people have said, the two play differently and require slight variations in strategy. As you have been playing with feathers and exclusively feathers for so long, why would you expect to have the same feel. You are trying to get a sensation from material that is inherently not "crisp" and more flimsy and malleable. You also can't expect them to fly with the same pattern and speed. You have to adjust your stroke to be less intense for nylons, as they will fly faster and farther.

**cooler** · 04-08-2009, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by taneepak

I was walking along a small patch of public park today, and lo and behold I saw 4 pairs of players playing with Mavis nylon (yellow colour). The small park was almost completely taken up by the players. The players were in casuals and some just wore slippers. There was a group of Indian players, one of them was pretty good. After a game the pairs would pass their racquet over to another pair, and in between games they would run around the small park for fun.
Out of curiousity I asked to have a few shots. I can tell you plastics is not badminton. The feel, touch and almost all the strokes are not there with plastics. For example, with feathers the shuttle leaves the racquet face with great crispness and speed and it then slows down dramatically as it nears the net when you execute a deceptive reverse slice drop shot-a combination of fast initial speed and then a spinning slow speed vertical drop that is hard to read. With plastics, the nylon leaves the racquet dead with a very slow turnover and then the reverse slice drop is a joke as it drops nowhere. There is absolutely no deception with the reverse slice drop. You can read every stroke your opponent makes. I feel as if I am hitting a kind of stone. With high clears they all land out by a wide margin. And who says that a good plastic is better than a cheap feather? This is an incredulous claim. Any battered feather is anytime better than a new Mavis 500.

funny i can find analog examples as well. I get invited to certain church and community halls to play badminton (more of a social thing) So often i see new chinese/SE asian immigrants whacking feather shuttles around. I would rate them totally pathetic players, E- ? They even showed me some china shuttle brand that i never heard or seen before. Then i show them nylon mavis and they look at me like i showed them some condoms. Surely taneepak must have bumped into these extraordinary feather players before. At least taneepak's indian frens can whack some plastic around, even tho they can't reverse slice spin them.

**twobeer** · 04-08-2009, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by cooler

it just only prove u r less skilled playing with plastic shuttle. It doesn't prove you a pro in feather playing.

Originally Posted by Tsumaranai

You're merely showing a lack of adaptation. As people have said, the two play differently and require slight variations in strategy. As you have been playing with feathers and exclusively feathers for so long, why would you expect to have the same feel. You are trying to get a sensation from material that is inherently not "crisp" and more flimsy and malleable. You also can't expect them to fly with the same pattern and speed. You have to adjust your stroke to be less intense for nylons, as they will fly faster and farther.

I think this argument is quite siilly.. Same argument could be used if soemone complained that he dont like using a Tennis ball to play with and that he feels it is worse than using a shuttle..

- You are just complaining because the tennis-ball flies different and you are unable to "adapt"..

dooh..

/Twobeer

**twobeer** · 04-08-2009, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by capricorn8

Now it makes me think, how will Taufik Hidayat
and Lin Dan play with nylons?

My guees would be that most smashes would be close to impossible to return due to the air resistance folding the nylon shirt in the air when these big guns go for any type of hard downward shot or smash.. Basically it would be less finesse and little or no deception, just speed, to be able to get the first (and only) smash..

/Twobeer

**Tsumaranai** · 04-08-2009, 03:48 PM

Are you saying that it'd fly so fast that none of them would be able to return it? I certainly don't think the argument of having to adapt is inane. It's obvious that that's what is necessary for someone to play decently with either type. Though it shouldn't be a very large transition. They definitely fly differently, so you'd have to adjust a bit to properly control your shots. I don't see that it's that much different from adapting to a racket.

**cooler** · 04-08-2009, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by twobeer

My guees would be that most smashes would be close to impossible to return due to the air resistance folding the nylon shirt in the air when these big guns go for any type of hard downward shot or smash.. Basically it would be less finesse and little or no deception, just speed, to be able to get the first (and only) smash..

/Twobeer

again, your conclusion is one dimensional, all base upon feather player would smash harder, no provision/advantage given to plastic players who are more accustom to plastic shuttle than a feather player who is doing the smashing. Fortunately, badminton is more diverse skills based game than u think, unlike basketball which favors height, football which favor mass, and swimming with favors long limbs. In badminton, u can not dominate just by having one particular skill or feature. That is why LD isn't the tallest nor we see bulging muscular players dominating MD.