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  1. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand;1141719

    [I
    taneepak's[/I] argument that feather is better than plastic applies only to those using feather. Additional arguments based on a saunter in the park hardly hold merit.

    cooler's position that plastic triumphs because the majority uses it is like saying the Toyota Corolla is better than the Bugatti Veyron because 40 million is greater than 300.

    To each his own material.
    And therein lies the truth

    Indeed, if the BWF were to discard feather in favour of rubber corks, every pro in the making would use rubber corks.

    And, um, why not?
    that is very contrary to my position. Feather users are the majority, i never doubted that. It was me who try to opposed taneepak's logic that chinese in china of all level uses feather and therefore feather is supreme. U r welcome to find a post or statement of mine that said plastic trumph feather because of its high usage.

    I was only defending the accusation that PP are less skilled. Pros use feather and therefore feather is great too is another falsed logic. As u (and I) have point out that to each of their domain. A truly skilled player should be able play proficiently and adapt quickly to ANY EQUIPS. If u look at racket threads, replies to newbies asking for best racket recommendation were all saying it is not the rackets, it is player's skill. Why can't this be said for shuttle? If both side of the court uses only one type of shuttle for competition, isn't the winner has the most skills, not on equips differences?
    We PP never bashes FP, unfortunately, some FP is too rigid to admit their narrow range of playability of shuttles.

  2. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Now let us look at the facts. This year todate, how many North American players participated and performed well in the Malaysian Open, Korean Open, German Open, AE Open, Swiss Open, and India Open? Why were they so conspiciously missing or why is their standard at an all time low? I don't have figures to support my claim, but I think I may be right to point out these countries also have the highest percentage of players using plastics compared with other countries.
    Perhaps North America should break away from the BWF and start its own PNABF (Plastic North America Badminton Federation). But in doing so they should refrain from calling a nylon a plastic shuttle, because no plastic can be a true shuttle. Only a high-drag bird qualifies to be called a shuttle. Perhaps 'racquet ball' will be more appropriate.
    what a silly comparison. It speaks of your ignorance of the whole topic of feather vs plastic.

    1. 99% of north americans national does train and use feathers since becoming pros. A noob using mavis has no relationship of andrew debaka losing the andre at 09 racket rally.
    2. We're also lousy in ping pong, is it because we are using different balls than the chinese in china?
    3, chinese gymnasts are superior to the rest of the world from the last OG results. Is it because they wore natural cotton underwear and the rest of the world gymnasts wore nylon/polyester underwear?

    Keep bashing north american players, u will surely hasten popularity of badminton BWF is not dumb as u taneepak, if they do what u suggested, badminton will be out of OG and popularity drop faster than your loose shorts.
    Last edited by cooler; 04-09-2009 at 11:32 AM.

  3. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    cooler's position that plastic triumphs because the majority uses it is like saying the Toyota Corolla is better than the Bugatti Veyron because 40 million is greater than 300.

    from post #16.....................
    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    since plastic still exist these days since its invention, it proved that plastic shuttles has its good points or else plastic is long gone by now. Using popularity in one locale to put down populairty in another locale as a show of superiority is a dumb illustration. Practically everybody in HK/china live in apt and condo, while majority of north americans lived in single houses with backyard. Does this mean the apt and condo superior to owning houses considering there are way more chineses in china+HK than americans

  4. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    Keep bashing north american players, u will surely hasten popularity of badminton BWF is not dumb as u taneepak, if they do what u suggested, badminton will be out of OG and popularity drop faster than your loose shorts.


    ok ok...

    I think you guys have made your points already.

    Time to take a break from the computer and go do some work/sleep

    Better yet, go breathe some fresh air.

  5. #73
    Moderator drifit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post


    ok ok...

    I think you guys have made your points already.

    Time to take a break from the computer and go do some work/sleep

    Better yet, go breathe some fresh air.
    please let me correct you.
    it will be much better heading to gym and play badminton. whether it is nylon or feather, enjoy badminton.

  6. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by drifit View Post
    please let me correct you.
    it will be much better heading to gym and play badminton. whether it is nylon or feather, enjoy badminton.
    yes yes, you are correct.

    Just play!

  7. #75
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    but i still like to see a photo of taneepak eating a dish of steamed fish with rye bread

  8. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post


    ok ok...

    I think you guys have made your points already.
    i know where to aim my shuttlecock
    it's point not points, coz i can only hit one ball at a time
    i'm good but not that good

  9. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Now let us look at the facts. This year todate, how many North American players participated and performed well in the Malaysian Open, Korean Open, German Open, AE Open, Swiss Open, and India Open? Why were they so conspiciously missing or why is their standard at an all time low? I don't have figures to support my claim, but I think I may be right to point out these countries also have the highest percentage of players using plastics compared with other countries.
    Perhaps North America should break away from the BWF and start its own PNABF (Plastic North America Badminton Federation). But in doing so they should refrain from calling a nylon a plastic shuttle, because no plastic can be a true shuttle. Only a high-drag bird qualifies to be called a shuttle. Perhaps 'racquet ball' will be more appropriate.
    This is such an irrelevant post. Have you not the concept that badminton is not that popular in North America? Such sports, and sports in general don't exactly receive federal/state funding. People play from their own pockets. I really don't think that players can live off tournament money, especially if they're not placing. They must have their day jobs. Unlike European and Asian countries, there is little support in this area. Thus, there is less training. Are international flights not costly? You can't expect such people with these low budgets to go flying around the world just to prove they have talent. It's preposterous to make such claims that it's because of people predominantly playing with plastics that affect their level. You have no real valid proof. You can't substantiate such claims with these different socio-economic conditions. They are not nearly similar in any aspect. Please do not pontificate.

  10. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    In Asia you can find young kids who are not rich playing with old discarded feathers. Some of them may be 12 to 13 years old but they are pretty good.
    Also all coaches in Asia always use discarded and battered feathers, never plastics, to train and drill their students. In Asia we just don't see plastics in the courts, only on the beaches and public parks.
    Yeah when I train i use battered feathers but I know that i'd much rather use a brand new Mavis 500 than a crappy feather for a game.
    Although in tournaments or proper matches I'd much rather use a brand new feather than a brand new plastic.

  11. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    what a silly comparison. It speaks of your ignorance of the whole topic of feather vs plastic.

    1. 99% of north americans national does train and use feathers since becoming pros. A noob using mavis has no relationship of andrew debaka losing the andre at 09 racket rally.
    2. We're also lousy in ping pong, is it because we are using different balls than the chinese in china?
    3, chinese gymnasts are superior to the rest of the world from the last OG results. Is it because they wore natural cotton underwear and the rest of the world gymnasts wore nylon/polyester underwear?

    Keep bashing north american players, u will surely hasten popularity of badminton BWF is not dumb as u taneepak, if they do what u suggested, badminton will be out of OG and popularity drop faster than your loose shorts.

    I agree with all your points here. And IMO I think it was pretty unfair for taneepak to say that North Americans are not as good because they use plastics. It doesnt make sense. The elite in North America WILL use feathers all the time.

  12. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    We have been through several shades of this argument before.
    We have also been unable to either reach an end or see an end in the near distance

    One reason is that everyone here is arguing from a user's perspective.
    This is getting to be much like an iPhone owner against a Blackberry owner.
    To each, his gadget is better than the other's... and reasoning be damned!

    Let me add my few cents by repeating what my profile says:
    "I abhor plastic/nylon shuttles"

    But this isn't because it's a proven fact that plastic is bad or unacceptable.
    It's more because I can't adapt to anything other than a feathered shuttle.

    Imagine two badminton players - one in Asia and the other in the US.
    Let's call the first 'FeatherPlayer' and the second 'PlasticPlayer'.

    FP started playing with feathers and has always played with feather.
    His skills are tuned to the tapered flight of the feathered shuttle.

    PP started playing with plastic and has always played with plastic.
    His skills are tuned to the purposeful flight of the plastic shuttle.

    A great many scenarios lie ahead:

    1. FP tries plastic and instantly hates it.
    2. FP tries plastic and loves its economy
    3. FP tries plastic and believes he can adapt to it

    4. PP tries feather and instantly hates it.
    5. PP tries feather and finds he can afford it
    6. PP tries feather and believes he can adapt to it

    What I'm attempting to say is: "The greater the skill level of a player in one domain (feather or plastic), the greater his opposition to the other domain."

    To someone whose entire game consists of amateur hit-and-run sequences, the choice of material wouldn't matter in the least if the debate centres on the quality of the game.

    (Of course, if we are debating the economics of recreational play, plastic easily wins over feather. Um, to take that further, paper balls win over plastic )

    taneepak's argument that feather is better than plastic applies only to those using feather. Additional arguments based on a saunter in the park hardly hold merit.

    cooler's position that plastic triumphs because the majority uses it is like saying the Toyota Corolla is better than the Bugatti Veyron because 40 million is greater than 300.

    To each his own material.
    And therein lies the truth

    Indeed, if the BWF were to discard feather in favour of rubber corks, every pro in the making would use rubber corks.

    And, um, why not?
    Objective enough to me as pros and cons are well stated. If up to individual to accept and move on.

  13. #81
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    that is very contrary to my position. Feather users are the majority, i never doubted that. It was me who try to opposed taneepak's logic that chinese in china of all level uses feather and therefore feather is supreme. U r welcome to find a post or statement of mine that said plastic trumph feather because of its high usage. [...]
    I read one of your earlier replies which, among other things, stated:

    "[Why] are you only cherry picking a small segment of the badminton population to make your case? All the top pros in the world don't even add up to 1% of all badminton players. I rather bank my argument on 99% of the cases."

    This post was one in a nasty exchange deleted in entirety by another moderator.

    For relying on a deleted post, I offer my apologies.
    If I misunderstood the excerpt, you might want to clarify it

  14. #82
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Now let us look at the facts. This year todate, how many North American players participated and performed well in the Malaysian Open, Korean Open, German Open, AE Open, Swiss Open, and India Open? Why were they so conspiciously missing or why is their standard at an all time low? I don't have figures to support my claim, but I think I may be right to point out these countries also have the highest percentage of players using plastics compared with other countries.
    Perhaps North America should break away from the BWF and start its own PNABF (Plastic North America Badminton Federation). But in doing so they should refrain from calling a nylon a plastic shuttle, because no plastic can be a true shuttle. Only a high-drag bird qualifies to be called a shuttle. Perhaps 'racquet ball' will be more appropriate.
    taneepak, why must you assume that North American players don't get into a Super Series or Grand Prix event because they use plastic?

    Could it not be that North Americans are not as interested in badminton as they are in some other sport more popular in their part of the world?

    For instance, North Americans don't do well in sepak takraw or kabbadi or cricket. Does it mean that they are hooked on 'inferior' versions of these sports or their accessories?

    I share your contempt for the plastic shuttle.
    But I do not share your contempt for its users

  15. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    I read one of your earlier replies which, among other things, stated:

    "[Why] are you only cherry picking a small segment of the badminton population to make your case? All the top pros in the world don't even add up to 1% of all badminton players. I rather bank my argument on 99% of the cases."

    This post was one in a nasty exchange deleted in entirety by another moderator.

    For relying on a deleted post, I offer my apologies.
    If I misunderstood the excerpt, you might want to clarify it
    Aiyah, u grave digger u
    In that post, i was highlighting now silly was X's post. He wanted to rumble and said pros use feather and therefore feather is the best blah blah blah. If someone uses such silly logic, he should at least talk about the other 99% noobs that uses feathers as well. I wasn't using 99% noob feather users to support my plastic case either. I was just illustrating the fallacy of his logic. Obviously X's rumbling couldn't get him onto the first base.
    Last edited by Oldhand; 04-09-2009 at 02:21 PM. Reason: Sigh! Names removed

  16. #84
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    You almost made a deletion redundant.
    Of course, the names had to be removed

  17. #85
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    Wow, this post is getting far fro the original topic (if Mavis 500, is decent enough for Semi-serous competition)... I have a strong opinion that its flight properties and consistency are not good enough of these shuttles for higher-level play.

    The only reason to use them imop is to save money, and I think a majority of players have the economic means to afford great shuttles, if they really want to.

    Of course if players play just for fun and excerise and have not got strong smashes and technique I can see that it does not make sense to "invest" in better shuttles. However my hope is that many of these players will see the beauty of badminton as a more competetive sport.. start following super-series, olympics, wc etc.. and really get interested in badminton as a sport, not just as a recreational game.

    I agree with the point Kwun, oldhand make, about plastic-shuttles hardly can be blamed for most non-asian countries poort results in badminton, Cooler brilliantly (sometimes even a blind chicken finds a kernel of corn ) highlights this in his post, i think:

    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    what a silly comparison. It speaks of your ignorance of the whole topic of feather vs plastic.

    1. 99% of north americans national does train and use feathers since becoming pros. A noob using mavis has no relationship of andrew debaka losing the andre at 09 racket rally.
    2. We're also lousy in ping pong, is it because we are using different balls than the chinese in china?
    3, chinese gymnasts are superior to the rest of the world from the last OG results. Is it because they wore natural cotton underwear and the rest of the world gymnasts wore nylon/polyester underwear?

    Keep bashing north american players, u will surely hasten popularity of badminton BWF is not dumb as u taneepak, if they do what u suggested, badminton will be out of OG and popularity drop faster than your loose shorts.
    Spot on!

    Looking at my own country where plastic badminton are "huge" compared to "real"badminton in tems of players (a majority just plays for excersise recreation, and are clueless even about many rules....) I woul say its the other way around as to what Taneepaks view is..

    Plastic in US, Canada, Sweden etc. is big becuase badminton is not seen as a athletic competetive sport , and is small as a sport, but huge as excersise, recreation.. I think plastic are popular simply becuase most players have not been exposed/educated about the "real" sport of badminton, but know only the lame "backyard" version and thus have no reference and therefore are highly satisifed with plastic..

    The more exposure and KNOWLEDGE about badminton as a sport, the more people will use feathers, that is my firm beileife. As they will demand "better" more competetive stuff. I think that is the main reason why feather shuttle are more commonly used in countries where badminton is a popular sport, and often shown on TV etc...

    /Twobeer

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