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    Default Umpire from a neutral country

    interesting... i am watching China Masters Semi-final XD now... Denmark vs China...

    strangely enough, the Umpire is also from China... i thought the Umpire must be from a third country... no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    interesting... i am watching China Masters Semi-final XD now... Denmark vs China...

    strangely enough, the Umpire is also from China... i thought the Umpire must be from a third country... no?
    according to Ms Clark, all the umpires bar one are from the host country for this t'ment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanY View Post
    according to Ms Clark, all the umpires bar one are from the host country for this t'ment.
    China Masters mean must use all china umpires ?

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    can someone dig out the rule for this?

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    The rule only states: "An umpire, a service judge and a minimum of 4 line judges must be provided for each match at a Superseries Tournament. There shall be at least 6 umpires from foreign countries compromising of at least 4 BWF and 2 continental certificated umpires with well spread nationality. All umpires and service judges shall meet the eligibility criteria set for the panel of Technical Officials they belong to."

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    so in other words, 6 foreign umpires needs to present.

    but no one says they need to be doing the umpiring. they can just sit around for the whole week sipping coffee.

    what kind of clown wrote these rules?

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    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Actually, I thought I had posted this on the Semi-finals thread, but somehow it got lost in cyberspace! Anyway, here goes...

    http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file_download.aspx?id=24322

    PART III SECTION 11
    REGULATIONS FOR SUPER SERIES (Effective 2011)

    6.12 Technical Officials

    6.12.1 An umpire, a service judge, and a minimum of four line judges must be provided for each match at Super Series tournaments. There shall be at least 6 umpires from foreign country comprising of at least 4 BWF and 2 continental certificated umpires with well spread nationality. All umpires and service judges shall meet the eligibility criteria set for the panel of Technical Officials they belong to.

    6.12.2 Referees and Deputy Referee(s) for all Super Series tournaments will be appointed by the BWF. Subject to the BWFs permission, an organiser may appoint a local deputy Referee, but all costs must be borne by the organiser.

    From the BWF calendar of events:
    http://www.bwfbadminton.org/tourname...calendarid=103

    Technical Officials:

    • Referee: Mojmir Hnilica (CZE)
    • Deputy Referee: Cho Won Kyu (KOR)
    There is however, the question of the nationality of the Umpires and Service Judges. Evidently BWF is guilty of having broken their own regulations. They have a lot to answer for, to the worldwide badminton community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Actually, I thought I had posted this on the Semi-finals thread, but somehow it got lost in cyberspace! Anyway, here goes...

    http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file_download.aspx?id=24322

    PART III SECTION 11
    REGULATIONS FOR SUPER SERIES (Effective 2011)

    6.12 Technical Officials

    6.12.1 An umpire, a service judge, and a minimum of four line judges must be provided for each match at Super Series tournaments. There shall be at least 6 umpires from foreign country comprising of at least 4 BWF and 2 continental certificated umpires with well spread nationality. All umpires and service judges shall meet the eligibility criteria set for the panel of Technical Officials they belong to.

    6.12.2 Referees and Deputy Referee(s) for all Super Series tournaments will be appointed by the BWF. Subject to the BWF’s permission, an organiser may appoint a local deputy Referee, but all costs must be borne by the organiser.

    From the BWF calendar of events:
    http://www.bwfbadminton.org/tourname...calendarid=103

    Technical Officials:

    • Referee: Mojmir Hnilica (CZE)
    • Deputy Referee: Cho Won Kyu (KOR)

    There is however, the question of the nationality of the Umpires and Service Judges. Evidently BWF is guilty of having broken their own regulations. They have a lot to answer for, to the worldwide badminton community.
    That's what I said. But as kwun has pointed out, it says they just have to have 6 foreign umpires at the tournament. There's no rules saying they must umpire in it. They can just sip coffee and be present at the tournament.

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    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CantSmashThis View Post
    That's what I said. But as kwun has pointed out, it says they just have to have 6 foreign umpires at the tournament. There's no rules saying they must umpire in it. They can just sip coffee and be present at the tournament.
    Apparently, (according to Gillan) there was only 1 foreign umpire present at the tournament.

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    Probably 1 still remaining. I believe what my friend told me what happened at the US Open is that they cut the # of umpires down after every day to use for the next day at the tournament. Probably the same thing happened here and there's still only 1 foreign umpire left.

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    i think it is implied that a foreign umpire shall preside if the team from a organizing country is competing. Such a fundamental rule of fairness need not be expressly stated. it is inconceivable (to BWF) that an organizer of a Super Series tournament would not comply with such a basic rule of fairness.

    I guess the world must get used to rule of law with Chinese characteristic.

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    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CantSmashThis View Post
    Probably 1 still remaining. I believe what my friend told me what happened at the US Open is that they cut the # of umpires down after every day to use for the next day at the tournament. Probably the same thing happened here and there's still only 1 foreign umpire left.
    I've been watching the live broadcasts since the round of 16; no foreign umpires showed up...

    The US Open is a GP Gold event. Their officiating rules are different:
    http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file_download.aspx?id=22488

    7.7 Technical Officials
    7.7.1 An umpire, a service judge, and a minimum of four line judges must be provided for each match at Grand Prix tournaments. It is recommended that all umpires and service judges be under 55 years of age.
    7.7.2 The Referee(s) must be appointed by the BWF.

    As you will notice, there is no requirement for appointing umpires from foreign or neutral countries for GPG events.

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    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    i think it is implied that a foreign umpire shall preside if the team from a organizing country is competing. Such a fundamental rule of fairness need not be expressly stated. it is inconceivable (to BWF) that an organizer of a Super Series tournament would not comply with such a basic rule of fairness.

    I guess the world must get used to rule of law with Chinese characteristic.
    You've hit the nail on the head, at least regarding how tournaments are conducted in some places. But that still does not condone the fact that BWF screwed up and are guilty of contravening their own rules and regulations. Why were the requisite number of foreign umpires not allocated and provided? Why were no foreign umpires to be seen on court, especially from R16 onward? It would be very interesting to know what BWF have to say about this.

    I can only imagine 2 scenarios:

    1. BWF actually provided the 6 foreign umpires, but the organisers threw them out or kept them locked up in their hotel rooms, or just refused to allow them to officiate. In which case, what action is BWF going to take against the organisers?

    2. BWF did not provide the requisite number of foreign umpires. IN which case, what action is BWF going to take against itself?

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    This SS is very disappointing! beside having umpire from one country, there too many match fixing. Imagine there are two final which did not finish cos the players retired early. Too much of coincidence, even LD lost to Chen Jin and Chen Jin lost to Chen Long.
    I understand this particular country might be the power house of badminton today, but even when Indonesia was at its peak, they didn't resort to such mean.
    The only consolation i have is that they lost Men's double.

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    I was actually going to post a thread about this because I was watching the semi finals match between FHF/CY vs Ko/Yoo and during the first game where it was 22-21 with Ko/Yoo having the game point, the Chinese umpire called a fault on Yoo for hitting a shuttle before it crossed the net, though everyone in the stadium saw that Yoo obviously hit the shuttle while on his side of the net on an instant replay. I personally thought the ump was obviously biased in favor of the chinese pair because he was trying to save them on game point. Ultimately that changed the course of the first game as FHF and CY took the first game 26-24. I know umps can't change their ruling regardless of what happens, but it's pretty embarrassing when they make a obvious and biased error after a replay is shown and they have to stand by their decision in front of a crowd because there is no electronic or replay review system.

    You can see this point at:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM4E-...reply_received

    Go to 27:45, that's where the slow-mo replay of the shot is. 27:15 is the start of the rally being discussed

    This whole thing was a shame because Ko and Yoo played an awesome first game, and even after the terrible call was made there were some pretty good rallies by both pairs until FHF and CY edged them out barely. Of course Korea eventually got revenge when LYD and JJS put up a great performance in the finals to take the title.

    It's a shame that the integrity of the sport is shaken when situations like these arise. It's a small but important part that sets Tennis apart from Badminton as the tennis umpires travel on the tour with the players and are generally very fair to the players, different nationality aside. And of course they have Hawk Eye for electronic review of shots. But that's all been discussed before in my thread comparing Tennis to Badminton and the things Badminton could learn from Tennis.

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    Thumbs down

    my thoughts r that maybe cost to bring in more foreign empires is a factor..

    but seriously.... bringing in empires from nearby countries such as thailand, japan, korea, india, (russia?) or whichever doesnt cost that much in terms of air ticket as the hotel accomodations be it from any place on earth is still the same..

    the organiser should seriously consider to have empires from a neutral country as in football for those higher level of tournament. i am quite sure the china master is a level high enuff to warrant that.

    for the china master, i know that the referee is a foreign, but whats the use with 1 only? he cant be empire for all matches rite?


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    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    BWF regulations stipulate that there must be at least 6 foreign umpires for a Super Series event. Only then will an event be given that status, among other stipulations such as prize money ($400,000 at least) and other stuff. So there is no room for negotiation.

    If BWF did not select and send 6 foreign umpires, then BWF is at fault. They have created a precedent for other hosts of other SS and SSP events. This will result in chaos.

    If BWF did select and send 6 umpires but they were sidelined by the organizers, then it a clear breach of the rules. Then the organisers must face penalty and maybe also forfeiture of rights to host future SS or SSP events. Because the organisers have shown themselves as untrustworty and unwilling to adhere to the regulations.

    So, the question really is: who is at fault? It can be one of only 2 parties: BWF, or the organisers.

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