Returning shots when the shuttle is behind you

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Destricto_Ense, Nov 21, 2008.

  1. Destricto_Ense

    Destricto_Ense Regular Member

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    I find that the shots that I'm having most difficulty with returning are shots when the shuttle has passed me and is below net height. If it was overhead I could clear on either forehand or backhand without difficulty, but anything below that I always miss it or hit it with my frame. I have a 0% success rate with returning shots that I have to turn around to return. I can sometimes get contact with my forehand but never with my backhand. Similar to Taufik's first return in this video.

    Could anyone please give me some tips on how to improve this area?
     
  2. hhwoot

    hhwoot Regular Member

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    In that situation, it just sounds like you were out-played, either from the placement of the shuttle by your opponent or a lack of fitness/reaction by you to move towards the shuttle. So a general tip would be to increase your speed on court, something all of us can improve at.
     
  3. Destricto_Ense

    Destricto_Ense Regular Member

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    So the key would be to anticipate the shuttle before it gets into that position? That's definitely something to aim for, but it's not always possible.
     
  4. hhwoot

    hhwoot Regular Member

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    I guess going beyond anticipation of the shot, you should think about how you got into such a situation. Now, to have the shuttle behind you and below the net:

    A) From an opponent clear: You are not moving fast enough, with a slim chance that your opponent totally deceived you (i.e. flick serve).
    B) From an opponent drive: You did not react fast enough to the shot or did not anticipate the direction of the shot.
    C) From an opponent smash: You allowed the opponent to smash.

    The common point to all three is that, to get into the "shuttle behind, lower than net" situation, you were most likely being pushed around the court by your opponent. You should strive to be the one dictating the pace of the game and moving him around the court. Applying pressure on the opponent will limit the types of shots they can play, while increasing the types of shots you can play.
     
  5. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    This video of Taufik's first backhand clear does not show that the shuttle has gone past him. It might appear that the shuttle has passed him, but he stepped backwards with his right foot and his racquet hitting the shuttle right on top vertically. So when the shuttle was hit the shuttle certainly did not get past him. If the shuttle has truely gone past him, his only option is to take the backband low with a net drop.
     
  6. Oldhand

    Oldhand Moderator

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    I'm afraid I can't agree with the last line.

    It might sound preposterous to say so... but safely retrieving a shuttle that has gone past you is not that difficult. And it doesn't need to be a drop at all.

    With the right technique, you can hit it all the way to the back of the opponent's court (and, with some extra muscle, diagonally to his backhand corner).

    I can't locate a video that shows the forehand technique but here are two examples of what one of the backhand techniques looks like:

    See 0:19 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4b6jS6GZYI
    See 0:17 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFShgILcy14

    Of course, both feature Taufik Hidayat.


    There are three necessities:

    1. You mustn't get too close to the shuttle - else, your arm will be cramped and your stroke won't take the shuttle much of a distance (which means your opponent gets to kill a shuttle dropping around mid-court).

    2. Your weight must be on (or in the process of being transferred to) your racquet foot (right foot for right-handers) when you contact the shuttle.

    3. You must change your grip to panhandle (or at least as close to it as immediately possible).


    In cases where you end up too close to the shuttle, you need to lean away to make room. If not, the only option is a predictable drop to the net (where, in all likelihood, a grinning opponent is waiting with a raised racquet).

    Differently, if you are attempting to clear a push or a drive where the shuttle has just passed you but is still above shoulder height, lower your body by bending your knees, shift to full panhandle while choking up on the grip and whip your wrist back against the shuttle after it has passed you.

    This will allow you to drive it or clear it straight back (but not diagonally... unless you want to punch the shuttle into your own eye or forehead).

    I have seen Jung Jae-Sung, V Diju and Tri Kusharyanto do this... and I will try to find a snippet that shows the shot.
     
  7. Oldhand

    Oldhand Moderator

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    Singaporeans who frequent the Hougang Sports Hall should be familiar with one player who is quite adept at this shot - Kho Lian Thye.

    If anyone would like to see how it is done, please drop by on a Wednesday and look for a very modest, thick-set, balding, middle-aged gentleman in a loose white top wielding a ProAce racquet.

    (You could also ask Sealman or Punchclear to point him out to you.)

    Lian Thye makes even the diagonal clear look easy ;)
     
  8. Destricto_Ense

    Destricto_Ense Regular Member

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    Thank you for the tips, and the correct videos Oldhand. It is true that the video of Taufik that I posted didn't demonstrate perfectly what I was talking about, but it was the best I could find at short notice.

    I will try out the things you've suggested, starting with finding out what the panhandle grip is - I've never been coached so I'm not that familiar with the different grip names, although thinking about it panhandle is pretty self explanatory..


    PS. In regard to the transferral of weight to the racquet foot, I find that I overemphasise that when attempting this stroke, and end up stamping, so I'm trying to eliminate that too.
     
  9. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    I have never seen any player, even Taufik Hidayat, hit a full-length, diagonal, defensive (high) clear from behind his body (corner to corner). I don't believe any player in the world is capable of this shot.

    Look at the videos. In the first one, Taufik's (very flat) clear is intercepted by his opponent in the front midcourt; in the second one, Taufik is hitting the shuttle from the back midcourt and Gade intercepts it while barely stepping into the back tramlines.

    Although both are impressive shots, they clearly don't qualify as full-length defensive clears. Yet their weakness is also their strength: they work because they are flat, and they surprise the opponent who has more-or-less ruled out that possibility in anticipation of the straight drop shot.

    By all means practise to improve your backhands; but it's stupid to set yourself a goal that not even the world's best can achieve. Understand that, when the situation is very bad, you will usually be limited to a drop shot or a flat clear.

    You may want to look at my grips guide:


    ...and perhaps also these from my singles tactics guide:


    Now I feel like a teacher setting homework. :D
     
    #9 Gollum, Nov 21, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2008
  10. Destricto_Ense

    Destricto_Ense Regular Member

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    I'll get on to that right away.. sir!
     
  11. peterford

    peterford Regular Member

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  12. Destricto_Ense

    Destricto_Ense Regular Member

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    My aspiration is to be like Taufik in having a backhand as equally dangerous as my forehand.. bit of a way to go yet hehe.
     
  13. huynd

    huynd Regular Member

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    IMHO to be really comfortable in the backhand corner one has to master both the backhand clear and drop, so that they look exactly the same until the last moment. Most pros do not shuffle and do scissor jump to get the shuttle at backhand corner. Instead they (at least most of the time) adopt a relaxed footwork, play the shuttle at net height, well behind their body. The tricky part is to be able to play a backhand drop shot and a backhand clear from that position.

    While that may seem awkward as the common belief is to get behind the shuttle, this style of play save a lot of energy (Taufik also has a strong backhand smash which adds more variation to his backhand strokes). I'm trying to practice this style, but to be honest, it's very hard to play a decent clear every time you want. When one get tensed it's hard to disguise.
     
  14. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    That's one of the best I've ever seen. But it's still not full-court: Taufik does not step into the back tramlines, and neither does Andrew Smith when returning it.

    It's also a very flat, attacking clear, which would be easily smashed in normal play. Notice where Andrew is standing: he actually has one foot over the short service line! It's only because of Andrew's positioning that Taufik is able to play that shot.

    It's an amazing shot, but again it's important to distinguish between attacking and defensive clears, and to recognise that the shot would not work if the opponent were less aggressively positioned.
     
  15. Destricto_Ense

    Destricto_Ense Regular Member

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    Gollum, is it safe to assume that due to your wealth of knowledge that you're actually a professional level player who's so good that they took themselves out of the game to make it fair on everyone else.. or are you just one of those people who can never seem to follow their own advice? [sounds like me :p]
     
  16. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    There may be some misunderstanding about returning shots when the shuttle is behind the player. What is meant here is, I am sure, that the shuttle has gone past you, but you are still able, through good and fast footwork, to step back to return the shuttle with the racquet face square to the net. At the time the shuttle is hit, it is not behind you but in line with your racquet. Such a backhand clear is easier because obviously you have more time to hit it before the shuttle falls, A faster shot towards your backhand may not give you enough time to take it as a clear because the shuttle would have dropped by the time you reach it. For example, if Andrew Smith had hit the shot towards Taufik's backhand with a good length and with greater speed, I doubt Taufik would have been able to return it the way he did-he would not have the time. At best, he might return it as a cross-court drop.
     
  17. Oldhand

    Oldhand Moderator

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    Three points:

    1. It's childish to insist that what one hasn't seen doesn't happen or exist ;)

    2. I wonder how the word 'high' came to qualify the clear I mentioned. I don't see that I resorted to any such prefix.

    3. In the three videos cited here featuring Taufik playing this, er, 'doomed' shot, isn't it awkward that he went on to win the rally? :rolleyes:
     
  18. Destricto_Ense

    Destricto_Ense Regular Member

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    That's just Taufik being flukey. He has no skill whatsoever; his backhand is especially terrible ;)
     
  19. Danstevens

    Danstevens Regular Member

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    LOL

    I'd like to see you beat Taufik! :p

    No, I know you're only joking
     
  20. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Ha! :)

    If you want to be really good, it's not enough to know what to do. You have to work hard doing it. It takes staggering amounts of practice and physical training to reach the professional level.

    Even if I had the potential (doubtful), I didn't have the monomania required to go pro. :D

    Actually, that's more a trait of adults than of children. :D

    I just think it's foolish for amateurs to set themselves goals that professionals don't manage to achieve. :p

    Then again, maybe it is possible. I'll believe it when I see it. As with everything else, I adjust my beliefs when I get new data.

    You're right, and I wasn't criticising you for that. Rather, I was trying to clarify what you had already said.

    Many players get frustrated with their backhands, because they have unrealistic expectations. Setting sensible expectations is useful.

    It's not a doomed shot. As I said before, it works because the opponent has already committed himself (physically and mentally) to covering other shots. That does nothing to take away the brilliance of Taufik; if anything, he's all the more brilliant when you realise that this shot requires good tactical awareness too (you need to know or judge what your opponent is doing).
     
    #20 Gollum, Nov 22, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2008

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