hello to all, i know this subject has been discussed before, but im not sure if the question has been asked in quite the same way and im looking for a definative view from you ......the experts! fakes: rackets made by some1 other than the real manufacturer but labeled up as though they are real. quite a few on ebay right now (check out ebay seller: terminal730-uk), most being sold as fakes 'or identical clones'. of course, much cheaper and generally look very similar to the original item. all seem to be yonex clones: 'almost exact copies' of original items but made by and labeled as being different brands to those they have cloned. brands like APACS, Winnex, Yehlex, Monsoon and so on. they usually name their rackets with very similar titles to the yonex model they are supposed to be a clone of and again, they are much cheaper. my question is, which of the above is best. a fake or clone. i bought a fake ns7000 which felt completely different to the original but plays very very well. its lighter and more flexible, slightly heavier head and overall an extremely enjoyable racket to use. i have never tried a clone, but a quick search suggests that they can be very good (in some players opinion) or not so good or best avoided at all costs (in other players opinions) let me know what you all think on this matter. i know some totally despise and hate copies or fakes, but i think both types are gonna be with us for a very long time. i also think they're going to get better and harder to tell between them and the real thing! thanks for your thoughts regards bf
Consider what your position is on this: An entity named X markets a watch named Bolex, which resembles Rolex in design and appearance. Another entity named Y markets a watch named Rolex, which resembles Rolex in design and appearance. Why would the business of one of these entities be any more honourable or dishonourable than the other? A clone is a fake is a copy. Nothing's genuine about it.
Clones you know have some quality control, and provide specs, and you know what sort of racquet you're getting. Fakes vary by manufacturer, some are okay, some most of us will snap in half just by using it, etc. Go for the clones, the fakes are too much of a risk.
yes, i take your point Oldhand so will i take it that your personal opinion is that a fake or a clone are both as dishonorable as each other and that you would not consider buying either. is it correct to say, though, that the clone or copies are actually quite legal in pretty much all countries whereas the fakes are usually not? do you have any idea about the quality of these two versions, is one superior to the other, in any way at all? taking your example a step or two further, there are many watches which share a variety of similarities and may even be sold as cheaper alternatives to other more expensive watches. are all these 'similar' watches unsuitable and best avoided? thanks for you opinion Oldhand
as it happens, Athelete, i was leaning towards that exact same conclusion. brands like APACS & Winnex do indeed market their products in a very professional manner, offer warrantees and as you said have a (usually) high level of quality control. i believe there is even a member here that is personally linked with the Winnex brand! i don't believe the fakes can claim any of those features i appreciate your advice regards
Well, if clones are as good as the racquets they are 'cloned' from, why not bravely market them with a distinct brand identity? People would buy them just for this 'high' quality and lower price, wouldn't they? If this 'quality' argument sticks, there wouldn't be any need to use a similar sounding name or copy the design or stick to the same (and potentially misleading) colour scheme. Come to think of it, I could buy a few rundown aircraft on the cheap, paint them in Singapore Airlines livery and name them 'Stingapore Airlines'. Would you fly on these even if I offered you a free ticket? Stay away from the spurious, whether it's a fake or more cleverly called a 'clone'. Hats off to manufacturers like Carlton, Ashaway, Gosen, Forza and SOTX who don't need to rely on Yonex 'clones' to keep their business moving forward
Stingapore Airlines No thank you very much. I think clones, regardless of its merit, has a much higher chance of surviving in the Market if it resembles a more famous Yonex.
clones for sure because in most cases, they try and imitate every specification of the real one, fake will use all the lousy stuff and put a paint cover over it and market it. ex. APACS vs Yonex apacs being one of the most well known cloners of yonex and then comparing the racket AT900 some people say the apacs ver is even better than the original yonex
Still, one has to agree that the very fact that an entire company's line of products are based on copying the looks of another is "CHEAP". They make part of their profit of the fact that some people want to maintain a status symbol when they play sports... This is consumerism at its lowest imo. If clone products were as good as those that use them say they are, then the company wouldn't have any issues promoting them at important sporting events, or for that matter coming up with their own look to differentiate them from the competition. When you have a comparitive advantage over someone, you flaunt it, you don't mimick someone. Fact of the matter is, appropriate court shoes should be your number one priority when it comes to equipment, and by that I mean an ok pair athletic shoes with a thin specialized indoor court sole, then your string. The color scheme and name of a racket are just bling. Skill should be your number one asset of all. Sorry for the rant, by the way if anyone in any marketing firm of badminton is listening, why don't you cut it with all the paint and just come out with a no BS racket with just your company logo and racket ID. That in itself should make it unique at the moment...
Ashaway also has a clone of YY ..... so far I saw Carlton, Mizuno, Gosen, Victor, Forza, Wilson, Babolat, Dunlop, SOTX who don't have YY-clones.
It's been a while since I peruse BC and I must take offense at the insuination of a clone=fake especially from a moderator of the forums. Just like the Personal Computers (PC) when it was first released, IBM set the standard and most others followed by copying their design but adding their own twists. A lot of them have their own brand name (i.e. they are not fakes but clones). Similarily for the manufacturers of the various clones, like Finnex, Winex, Fleet, etc. Most of these manufacturers do have their own models but the most frequently asked question from consumers have been and still is, "Which Yonex model is this racquet most like?". It is easier for the manufacturer to copy the design pattern and colours of the Yonex model so that it is easy for the consumer to tell which Yonex model is the clone racquest most closely resemble. And Yes, if anyone is wondering. I am an official distributor for Winex products and prior to using Winex racquets, I was using only Yonex but decided to switch after trying out a few of the Winex models. Like Yonex and most manufacturers, Winex do provide warranty on their racquets against manufacturer defects.
The notion that the best product wins is seriously flawed. A product is only as good as its marketing and this happens in most industries. In the watch world, how many people have heard of Rolex/Omega compared to Patek/IWC? How about Sony vs. Marantz for sound systems? Nikon/Canon vs Leica/Carl Zeiss for lenses? Here in BC, many of us has come to respect the Mizuno TC700 as a great racket. I can be bet with you that 3/4 of the badminton world out there are not even aware that Mizuno produces rackets, much less quality stuff like the TC700. I've seen many players who would rather pay the same price for the lowest end Yonex instead of for a high end racket from other brands because that's what the reigning world #1 uses.
I wonder if you will extend the same generosity to Rolex, LV or Gucci clones... Since you state your position, I'll state mine. I do own quite a few clones and none of the high end Yonex. In fact, I've stayed off Yonex until the Cab30 which I thought was the best racket ever made (for me). I don't see anyone cloning that. IMHO, whether you provide warranty is irrelevant. In fact, APACS provides better warranty than Yonex by allowing their rackets to be strung to 30lbs instead of Yonex's measly 23 or so. If the "clone" is exactly the same racket, it's a rip-off from the original. If it is not the same, you are ripping off your customer. Neither way is honourable.
If you show me a watch that looks like a Rolex (with a different brand name) and is priced reasonably and stands on its own (with warranty) and known organization (i.e. legit business). Why not? It's another watch. Now if you tell me that this manufacturer sell the watch as "Rolex" and is marketed as the real article with the expectation that you (the consumer) is fooled into thinking that you are actually purchasing the real item, then that's illegal and is a fake. We can debate until the cows comes home but the fact is that a clone is not a fake. A fake is marketed as the real thing manufactured by an unknown entity with the intention to fool the consumer in thinking that they have purchase the real product.
http://www.ireplicastore.com/faq.php Or, just google for "watch replica". The marketing intention depends on the seller rather than the company producing the product. A seller may sell to a fake "honestly" as a fake, or he can sell a "clone" as a real product. One ploy I heard is that these rackets are produced from the same OEM but because they over produced, XXX brand bought from the OEM but stamped their own logo. By copying the design, the manufacturer has allowed for the dishonest practice. It probably also help them sell more rackets.
some may say apacs clone will be better than the orginal is because orginal racket is too stiff , heavy for them...while all apacs cloning have more balance , less stiff and in 4U version which lighter than orginal so they can perform well....but when come to professional level player...they will feel cloning is lesses "SOLID"...but with the price stil worth it =)
Firstly I don't think there is anything wrong with clones. It happens everywhere: cars, tvs, phones, clothes... They aren't illegal because they don't infringe on patents. Now as for the claim that the clones are better than their top level equivalents... i find this very hard to believe. I have two clones arriving soon, I will report.
I disagree, there are a number of clones that feel just as heavy and solid as the Yonex stuff. There are plenty of reviews in the forum about APACS rackets being just as heavy and there are plenty of original Yonex rackets that are lighter to. The AMP95 is an example of a clone from APACS that is just as solid as any Yonex racket. More expensive doesn't always mean better, most of the time it does but not in the world of badminton rackets. Tim H
The Apacs Nanotec 900 can never be better than a Yonex AT900. This also applies to any other clone claiming to be better than the original. When a person like the playability of an Apacs more than that of a Yonex, It only means that the Apacs is more suitable for him/her. In this case, the "superiority" of the Apacs is subjective.
