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  1. #1
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Default Misbun's Proteges

    Misbun has his fair share of admirers but let's look at his track record of producing good players :

    1) Roslin Hashim- A very fit and stubborn runner who could play for hours but lacking in finishing. Was world no.1 in 2001 and played a crucial role as anchorman in Thomas cup ties

    2) Hafiz Hashim- Tall with skillful strokes but lacking in stamina probably because of
    inability to train hard to MS's hard training. AE champion in 2003 and played a key
    role as anchorman in Thomas Cup ties

    3) Kwan Beng Hong- Played in Thomas Cup ties but never made much impact.

    4) Lee Chong Wei- Trained first by his boyhood sifu Mr.Teh, then influenced by Frost,
    then underwent training with Indra Gunawan and Li Mao. Moulded into a very fit
    and consistent player by Misbun.Was already a very talented player by 2003 ,but
    grew in technical ability under Li Mao and also Misbun. Thrived further under
    Misbun's tough training regime and can even outlast tough players trained in China.

    In one of the above cases fitness complemented skills, in another skills were
    developed but fitness was lacking,in the other two there was fitness but lack of
    skills.Hafiz was probably encouraged to develop skills and strategy under Hendrawan
    when he could not build up his endurance under MS.

    I would say that Misbun's hard training has been successful when it complemented a talented player like
    LCW,but not HH. In the case of the other two they just lacked the talent although they must be very fit.

    That I think sums up MS's record of producing notable and successful players at
    world level.

    Please add if I missed anything out.By all means disagree but so so objectively.
    Last edited by Bbn; 01-08-2011 at 10:29 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    so hafiz couldn't be trained hard by misbun yet in 2003 all england he still won the title,

    if i knew i should have brought my rackets along lol

    actually he wasn't like that at first if you looked at that final match.

    he caught every player by surprise with his style of play and was rather skillful

    but later something happen and he just lost that motivation to strive hard until today.

    it is really unfortunate he couldn't make a comeback

  3. #3
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    If I remember rightly LCW started to become world no.1 and took over from LD in 2006 after he beat LD in the Malaysian Open,
    thereafter the two switched no.1 roles several times.

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    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    so hafiz couldn't be trained hard by misbun yet in 2003 all england he still won the title,

    if i knew i should have brought my rackets along lol

    actually he wasn't like that at first if you looked at that final match.

    he caught every player by surprise with his style of play and was rather skillful

    but later something happen and he just lost that motivation to strive hard until today.

    it is really unfortunate he couldn't make a comeback
    The same must be true of Pulella Gopichand ,lost his motivation.

  5. #5
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    The same must be true of Pulella Gopichand ,lost his motivation.
    Back in the 80's and 90's and until a few years ago, it was not easy for the Indian players to maintain such a high level of fitness and motivation on the international circuit. There were a whole lot of reasons, but one good thing that came out of all that was the fact that Gopi became something of a national hero when he won the AE, and that helped him to establish the centre at Hyderabad. Although Prakash Padukone had already established a center at Bangalore some years prior, it was sadly, not turning out world class players.

    So Gopi aligned with the Badminton Association of India, and the corporate interest in the game brought in the financial support that was required to have infrastructure, coaches, trainers, dieticians, and everything else that helps good players become better players.

    Gopi's "loss of motivation" was India's huge gain in the long run!!

    But this is about Misbuns' boys...

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    I think Yong Hock Kin and Ong Ewe Hock also once in Nusa Mahsuri were trained by Misbun also.......

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    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    only for a short spell before they were kicked out.

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    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    In fact when MS joined BAM 2003 Ong Ewe Hock was ready to call it a day, and eventually Yong too.

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    Datuk LCW mental and physical ability to swallow all the in-human and tough training throwned to him from Datuk Misbun for all this many years plays as a huge part to mould him to the player that we recognize now. No other player at present that is able to endure his continous tough training regime. Enormous physicality required at all departments once under Datuk Misun charge.

    That's why Datuk Misbun wants his son, Ramdan, to go under his wing since Ramdan has already able to swallow some of his father tough approach and as a son,whatever harsh critics he received, it is from his own father and this is the only way from Datuk Misbun's opinion to get the better out of his son and any other players who is willing and dedicated to follow him in the strive to produce a excellent player in line with the current fast paste game.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    From coaching experience do you think it is more important to first to develop physical prowess to a high standard

    first before developing other skills? Or would it be better to develop playing skills first then take endurance to a very higher level.

    Of course you believe that with no fitness or gym work will just result in a player who cannot sustain rallies etc.

    HH has the playing skills but not the physical, LCW has the skills and now the endurance.KBH and Roslin have the physical

    abilities but not so much as ball players.

    I am no coach but seems to me over-emphasis on physical development may cause many injuries and players who are great

    fighters but unable to strategise and play smart.this explains why there are always comments that players dont fight hard

    enough, they become runners rather than ball players in the mould of Foo Kok Keong..

    It is alright based on Eddy Choong's days where he could out-run and outlast everyone else because he trained harder

    and he had no choice being short and small, but today, there may be other aspects of fitness and endurance, in Taufik or Gade's case for eg.Some people think that some hard training methods will produce great marathon runners but not sprinters
    and smart ball players.

    LCW though is a perfect combination of both.

    Anyway everyone is entitled to their own views as there could be many training regimes, in the end more important are the final outcomes.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooting stroke View Post
    Datuk LCW mental and physical ability to swallow all the in-human and tough training throwned to him from Datuk Misbun for all this many years plays as a huge part to mould him to the player that we recognize now. No other player at present that is able to endure his continous tough training regime. Enormous physicality required at all departments once under Datuk Misun charge.

    That's why Datuk Misbun wants his son, Ramdan, to go under his wing since Ramdan has already able to swallow some of his father tough approach and as a son,whatever harsh critics he received, it is from his own father and this is the only way from Datuk Misbun's opinion to get the better out of his son and any other players who is willing and dedicated to follow him in the strive to produce a excellent player in line with the current fast paste game.
    Lcw is able to follow MS tough training probably because he already had exposure to other forms of hard training before, to him it is taking it one step higher. But for others it may be wiser to build it up gradually to go hand in hand with their playing skills.To me it is a question of timing of the endurance training.

  12. #12
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    I think in the beginning, LCW didn't have any special set of skills that could set him apart from other players. So he had to rely on his stamina, speed and fast coordination (physical prowess) to challenge other top players. He became the modern-day returning machine. Once he had established that aspect as better than others, he turned his attention to improving other aspects of his game and his skill set.

    I had mentioned in some other thread that LCW imo is the most over-achieving player in the history of the game. I think Misbun also realised what LCW was in terms of both his limitations and strengths, and he gradually moulded him to the champion he has become.

    Again it is useful to remember, that mental strength can be "built up" only to some extent. Either you have it or you don't. Eventually that will make all the difference. And it won't matter if it is Misbun or TXH or LYB or LM: not all diamonds are of the same grade, so you work with what you are given, and try to get the best from that.

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    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    between 2 players unlike,

    one with a natural badminton talent,

    and the other not so much of this talent but physically, better built.

    if the first one trains hard he will succeed to become a good player

    while the second must try harder than the first to be at par with him

  14. #14
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    I think in the beginning, LCW didn't have any special set of skills that could set him apart from other players. So he had to rely on his stamina, speed and fast coordination (physical prowess) to challenge other top players. He became the modern-day returning machine. Once he had established that aspect as better than others, he turned his attention to improving other aspects of his game and his skill set.

    I had mentioned in some other thread that LCW imo is the most over-achieving player in the history of the game. I think Misbun also realised what LCW was in terms of both his limitations and strengths, and he gradually moulded him to the champion he has become.

    Again it is useful to remember, that mental strength can be "built up" only to some extent. Either you have it or you don't. Eventually that will make all the difference. And it won't matter if it is Misbun or TXH or LYB or LM: not all diamonds are of the same grade, so you work with what you are given, and try to get the best from that.
    In the beginning he had as you said limited skills, that's must have been why BAM

    engaged Li Mao in 2005 (the creator of Sun Jun & Dong Jiong) to build up the skills aspect.

    After Li Mao had outlived his usefulness it was time for others to build on it in terms

    of more skills and fitness.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    between 2 players unlike,

    one with a natural badminton talent,

    and the other not so much of this talent but physically, better built.

    if the first one trains hard he will succeed to become a good player

    while the second must try harder than the first to be at par with him
    Is it possible that in most cases the 2nd will never catch up ,its like Matador vs Bull.

  16. #16
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbn View Post
    Is it possible that in most cases the 2nd will never catch up ,its like Matador vs Bull.
    this one i will let others answer

  17. #17
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    There is no point being the World Champion of Badminton if achieving it does not require fitness level/training equivalent to another Olympic Sport.

    Skill will always be important but without the Sporting Competitiveness, badminton will only remain a backyard sport enjoyed by geriatrics.

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