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  1. #35
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quik_silver View Post
    Yes it is true that Chinese people have this little thing they can't get off from the Japanese due to World War II. Just with some curiosity, is there any financial numbers and terms being released by Li-Ning? I truly think Yonex will do anything to match their competitor's offer as we all know that China is the biggest market at the moment.
    I beg to differ.
    China is the biggest market for volumes... but not for expensive goods.

    The focus on China last year had more to do with the Beijing Games than, say, a sudden increase in retail intake. In fact, the sporting market keeps shifting focus according to what is happening where.

    London (and pretty much the whole of Western Europe) will be the biggest target market until the 2012 Games. (Whether the masses will have any money left to buy anything is another question altogether.)

  2. #36
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    Being Chinese I dont really care who sponsors who... I have LN clothing for my table tennis since they sponsor the National Team... as for badminton... does it matter? Maybe people will just come to realize Yonex's gear isnt as dominant as we would like it to be...

    LN stuff isnt cheap either for CHN stuff btw... and before they can come out and prove their price/quality to the rest of the world, im sticking with my yonex gear

  3. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by winstonchan View Post
    absolutely agree with this!

    there are things that can't be measured by money only, though business is business, business is conducted by human, and human have feelings, humans do what they FEEL is rational in their mind, with factors like "face", economy (now and the future), politics, history, etc...

    and how do you know the pros like Yonex? i bet there are consumers and players out there who hate the guts of Yonex and can't wait to see LN slowly dissecting them..
    i disagree.

    this deal is about business and money is the key component of any business deal. We shouldn't bring past history into this deal, especially when yonex wasn't told it was part of the deal nor yonex staff were involved in those historical war events. Why bring this old china-japan wounds into negotiation now but not before? Punishing yonex for what japan did years ago is too unprofessional. There are much bigger entity and deals that china could lay it on japan than yonex. Why do u think chinese pro players hate yonex ? They were all well taken care of before. They got the best equips unrestricted. Sure there will be some that dislike yonex brand but look at the 'like to dislike' ratio from this forum, a big big majority liked yonex products. Those who dislike yonex because of past war history, then they are not moving forward. My parents all have experienced the japan's war history but they have no resentment on today's japanese.
    Last edited by cooler; 02-06-2009 at 12:31 AM.

  4. #38
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    if i'm yonex, i would let the china deal expire and focus my resources into the new market. The china market is nice to have but not essential. Yonex wasted alot of money fighting fakes and counterfeit in the chinese market. There are new markets like russia, EU, north america, south america, AUS, india that are ready to grow.

  5. #39
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    to add, korea have no problem signing up with Victor, a chinese (TW) company.
    korea and china have had some bad histories too

    japan bombed pearl harbor, toyota and honda are quite popular in USA

  6. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy View Post
    If Nike and Wilson wants to share the pie, why not LN? At least, LN holds the local market with a bit advantage to begin with, as many still consider LN himself as a national hero.

    For the immediate step, I think LN will use MicroSoft strategy for game market. Since LN taking over Kason, it can simply use Kason's technology, and simply put its symbol on. In a long run, with Kason's exisiting knowledge and LN's fund, they should have a bright future.
    You're right, and I didn't mean to discount LN's effort to break into the badminton market.

    However, I still think the process might have been rushed- that LN should all of a sudden replace one of the premier equipment makers in badminton for the sponsorship of one of the premier national teams in the sport.

    The implication there is that, despite little previous background other than the acquisition of Kason, LN has all of a sudden become a premier brand in badminton. And I'm not discriminating against LN here- I think I would feel the same if NIKE threw its weight in and took over sponsorship for the Chinese national team. As for Wilson, while it has entered the badminton market to some degree of success, it has yet to sponsor an elite player other than JR, let alone an entire team of the Chinese caliber.

    But all in all, like many have said, the more competition, the better it is for the market and consumers, and I hope in time, LN will be able to produce rackets that's the rave of all badminton players.

  7. #41
    Regular Member Badmintan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    to add, korea have no problem signing up with Victor, a chinese (TW) company.
    korea and china have had some bad histories too

    japan bombed pearl harbor, toyota and honda are quite popular in USA
    America avenged the infamy at Pearl Harbour many times, eg Doolittle raid, nuking of Hiroshima/Nagasaki, MacArthur's occupation of Post war Japan.

    But USA and Japan enjoyed very good relationship today, a blip happens in the 80s, where America saw unfair competition in the automobile industry, the backlash exemplified by the hate crime that killed Vicent Chin.

    China and Korea are scarred by Japan's activity in the war. The visits by the politicians to the shrine always touched on the feelings of Chinese and Koreans. Also, the textbooks in Japan potrayed Japan as the victim in the war.

    Let's not forget, the Japanese are a very nationalistic people, even today. It's not a coincidence, foreign companies have a tough time breaking into Japan. Japan is eternally wary of China's competition for hegemony in the Far East.

    China on the other hand is ruled by left-wing ideology, but the opening of its market resurrect old national pride in the face of foreign competition. No surprise that China wants to create its own brand and grow it.

    Yonex have served its purpose of technical transfer and 'babysit' the Chinese Badminton industry. China is already dominant in the shuttlecock, badminton shoes & clothing market. Her racquet making industry is overtaking Taiwan and Japan soon. What she lacks is a well developed brand. "Li-Ning" doesn't sound appealing to a person let's say in New York or Abu Dhabi.

  8. #42
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    Li Ning is no longer a small potato in sportswear. I think it is already bigger than Yonex. I am sure the badminton authority in China signed up with Li Ning purely on commercial basis-more money.
    Also, in business you can acquire a name in a certain sporting area by buying any corporation with the desired brand name. In badminton, it is sponsorship of top players and top countries that ultimately sell racquets, etc. Quality without it being promoted by great players or nations is useless. It makes more sense for a quality manufacturer with no sponsorship muscle to sell its name/invention to one that is big on sponsorship.

  9. #43
    Regular Member ants's Avatar
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    Yes.. Li Ning in fact has been around for years... just that most of their equipment is "within" China. Thats why many is not aware of Brand Li Ning. Making the move in Olympics and now trying to take a share is Badminton is more for international exposure. And Team China badminton has better appeal. You will never know.. maybe Team Malaysia will be sponsored by Li Ning one day as i've already seen some players in Malaysia using Li Ning products.. for fun sake.. no sponsorship deals.

  10. #44
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    Li Ning has a company incorporated in Hong Hong, see SEHK2331. It has signed many sponsorship agreements and strategic collaborations with the likes of Shaquille O'Neal, NBA, ATP, Basketball and soccer associations in China, athletic teams in Africa, and also in Argentina and Sweden.
    Li Ning shoes and sportswear are not cheap; in fact they are reasonably of high quality. Do you know the potential size of the Chinese basketball fans? Li Ning has done well with a strategic collaboration agreement with the NBA. I think he may be gunning to sign up even Yao Ming.
    His biggest promotional stunt was the breathtaking opening ceremony lighting of the Torch. Now every sporting company wants to seek him out as a strategic partner.
    I think it is in the best interest of Yonex to ask Li Ning to take a substantial stake in Yonex, simply as a long term insurance.

  11. #45
    Regular Member maa2003's Avatar
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    in 2009 Yonex catalog (at Japan website), no more player from China & Korea ... they put LCW, TH and PG .....

  12. #46
    Regular Member huangkwokhau's Avatar
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    May be after LI Ning, we may see ANTA ( another chinese brand in Tennis gear) jump into Badminton business too...ANTA, recently paid big bucks to sponsor Jelena Jankovic

  13. #47
    Regular Member huangkwokhau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Li Ning has a company incorporated in Hong Hong, see SEHK2331. It has signed many sponsorship agreements and strategic collaborations with the likes of Shaquille O'Neal, NBA, ATP, Basketball and soccer associations in China, athletic teams in Africa, and also in Argentina and Sweden.
    Li Ning shoes and sportswear are not cheap; in fact they are reasonably of high quality. Do you know the potential size of the Chinese basketball fans? Li Ning has done well with a strategic collaboration agreement with the NBA. I think he may be gunning to sign up even Yao Ming.
    His biggest promotional stunt was the breathtaking opening ceremony lighting of the Torch. Now every sporting company wants to seek him out as a strategic partner.
    I think it is in the best interest of Yonex to ask Li Ning to take a substantial stake in Yonex, simply as a long term insurance.
    If you look at Yonex's financial in 2008..it did not look good...they spent so much to promote their Tennis gear...

  14. #48
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maa2003 View Post
    in 2009 Yonex catalog (at Japan website), no more player from China & Korea ... they put LCW, TH and PG .....
    Perhaps the biggest beneficiaries of this 'divorce' by China are Lee Chong Wei and Taufik Hidayat. Yonex now needs them and their endorsements more than ever.

    Taufik's couldn't have chosen a better time to turn 'Professional'

  15. #49
    Regular Member winstonchan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    i disagree.

    this deal is about business and money is the key component of any business deal. We shouldn't bring past history into this deal, especially when yonex wasn't told it was part of the deal nor yonex staff were involved in those historical war events. Why bring this old china-japan wounds into negotiation now but not before? Punishing yonex for what japan did years ago is too unprofessional. There are much bigger entity and deals that china could lay it on japan than yonex. Why do u think chinese pro players hate yonex ? They were all well taken care of before. They got the best equips unrestricted. Sure there will be some that dislike yonex brand but look at the 'like to dislike' ratio from this forum, a big big majority liked yonex products. Those who dislike yonex because of past war history, then they are not moving forward. My parents all have experienced the japan's war history but they have no resentment on today's japanese.
    well yeah, perhaps you are right in the western world of thinking but you may be surprised (and i'm not surprised) that China would think the other way...

    human is the key component to business, without a brain, your money down the drain...

    look at Lehman Brothers....
    Last edited by winstonchan; 02-06-2009 at 03:42 AM.

  16. #50
    Regular Member Badmintan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huangkwokhau View Post
    May be after LI Ning, we may see ANTA ( another chinese brand in Tennis gear) jump into Badminton business too...ANTA, recently paid big bucks to sponsor Jelena Jankovic
    I saw that brand ANTA was heavily promoted, much cheaper than the ridiculous price of Addidas/Nike in Beijing, when I was strolling along wangfujing street in late 2007.

    I also remember meeting some promoter ladies asking me to try their 'services'.

  17. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by winstonchan View Post
    well yeah, perhaps you are right in the western world of thinking but you may be surprised (and i'm not surprised) that China would think the other way...

    human is the key component to business, without a brain, your money down the drain...

    look at Lehman Brothers....
    i dont see the connection to the Lehman brothers.
    Lehman brothers went bankrupt, so business like to go bankrupt?

    Actually, the fact, past gripes hold back business.

    your statement 'human is the key component to business, without a brain, your money down the drain...' is vague and not true.

    E-commerce is multi billion business and increasing leaps and bound. It's flourishing because of its intent to take out the human factor.

    Take elvis and bruce lee, their business is brisk considering they are both long gone dead. Brains are gone but money keep on rolling in.
    Last edited by cooler; 02-06-2009 at 04:03 AM.

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