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  1. #103
    Regular Member volcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by narnia View Post
    This guy seems not having followed the tourneys and players for the last couple of years. And needs to raise how to watch as learning how to play.

    I recommend to practice reading the trend through future tourneys for the next couple of years.

    CHN was just lucky in 2009 AE as they were unlucky in 2009 SO. You should find out why.
    Korea was just abysmal, they failed to even win one medal, with their gold and silver medalists.

  2. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfried_Li View Post
    Is that true that one cannot edit a post after some time? ...
    ..15 minutes max. for editing time. After that, you can make a new post & add more comments to your previous post..

    This yr ain't over, yet. Best if we review/judge everything at the end of this yr. So, expect this thread to be resurrected from time to time.

  3. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by narnia View Post
    Not that improvement for CHN as you saw in SO. They just got three as usual. Just lucky in AE. Only from large population base of pro players.
    3 medals is still a great achievement, I don't think the Chinese players take it for granted. There are alot of hardship, sweat and tears behind each medal. A huge population of China doesn't give their players excuse to train loosely.

    Pay some respect to the individual and stop your BS please. It just make you sounds like a sour loser.

  4. #106
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    China I think did awesome in the AE this year. As mentioned in earlier posts maybe they don't have the depth other squads do as in, 3-4 top top level players in each discipline (MS, MD, XD, WS, WD), but they do have at least one top player in each discipline who can potentially (and did in the AE) win the event.

    This shows as a team they are very very strong, most countries don't have players who they can say confidently will win each individual event in any given tournament, China can and expects to.

    Kudos to China

  5. #107
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    I tried to discuss on the subject of this thread.

    CHN didn't show enough proofs such that they became much stronger.

    IT'S ALL RELATIVE!

    I would say that rather than CHN got stronger, the other countries had some issues at the moment as their top-most ranked players "retired" or "didn't participate" (or some like TINE getting injuries).

    It seems they got stronger as they swept out the AE, but in reality, it is not.
    Individual abilities look just similar to last year. IT's ALL RELATIVE.

    If they got stronger, why didn't sweep the SO like AE with the same squad of players?? Because of blah blah blah??? No excuses! In AE and also in SO, they had good chance of timing as many top-most ranked world players retired or didn't participate; I mean they were NOT PRESENT there. So CHN was lucky in timing.

    MS: LD vs LCW always happening just like the last year; the other CHN players are the same.
    WS: this is only category CHN seems show some progress from their good player base. but look around the top-ranked players; they were injured and quite old.
    MD: WR #1, #2 didn't participate and CY/FHF lost to KKK/TBH by 0:2 ==> i see no progress from this CHN team although i am also a big fan of CY/FHF.
    WD: the same as last year as the other countries's top-ranked players retired or didn't participate a lot.
    XD: ZB/MJ is the only team showing some progress. But if Nathan/Gail were there, ZB couldn't exert his power smash as he wanted. ZB still has many problems and weaknesses that he can't secure his winnings in the future.

    In sum, CHN should be CONSISTENT in the future tournaments if they want to argue they "got stronger". But unfortunately, they didn't in the last two Super Series. Three titles is very normal as a country of tremendous population of badminton PRO(full-time) players.

    In a certain tournament, they can show something. But in the next tournament, they can show nothing. That's the sports. I respect all the players's sweat and training. I's a basis. And I'd say they also need some luck in other aspects to win titles.


    How do you explain that KSH/HJE of KOR got advanced to the AE Final??? Do you believe they are really strong? I'm not sure. It's all relative and needs some luck.

    REAL STRENGTH ONLY CAN BE PROVED BY CONSISTENCY.
    Last edited by narnia; 04-04-2009 at 05:57 PM.

  6. #108
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    Are you only in this thread to promote how awesome and amazing korean players are?? CHN comes back after a 2 month haitus, completely dominating everything as usual, and you have the nerve to say that they're just lucky...And don't call Siegfried uninformed just because he's only been around for a few months and with a few postings here and there, but honestly, the credibility of his postings seem to be much better than yours considering how there isn't rampant nationalism everywhere...

  7. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athelete1234 View Post
    Are you only in this thread to promote how awesome and amazing korean players are?? CHN comes back after a 2 month haitus, completely dominating everything as usual, and you have the nerve to say that they're just lucky...And don't call Siegfried uninformed just because he's only been around for a few months and with a few postings here and there, but honestly, the credibility of his postings seem to be much better than yours considering how there isn't rampant nationalism everywhere...
    I said the opposite. Check out why I mentioned the other sports. My discussion bases on the population of each "individual" sports, not of the whole country people.

    I said CHN's strength comes from its population of badminton pro players. I said CHN is strong, but disagree that they got "stronger" this year. That's all relative.

    That's my perspective. You can have your perspective.

  8. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athelete1234 View Post
    Are you only in this thread to promote how awesome and amazing korean players are?? CHN comes back after a 2 month haitus, completely dominating everything as usual, and you have the nerve to say that they're just lucky...And don't call Siegfried uninformed just because he's only been around for a few months and with a few postings here and there, but honestly, the credibility of his postings seem to be much better than yours considering how there isn't rampant nationalism everywhere...
    I have a lot of respect for your posts as I have for Narnia's research. He might have gotten carried away by JJS/LYD's victories for a while which unfortunately dampens his credibility but hopefully not permanently.To me, he's relatively objective because he did say KOR MD got to AE finals partly due to luck(of the draw) If cai/fu and LD didn't win AE partly due to luck, then they should also have won SO if they were the best because cai/fu did not meet kkk/tbh in AE whereas LD met LCW in both AE and SO.The only other reason for CHN not winning SO MD and MS is because it's not a major tournament in which case CHN should not have won WD, WS and XD as well.
    I think it's sad that a badminton powerhouse like CHN needed 3 months intensive work to sweep a tournament. I wonder if CHN 's gonna take 3 months to prepare for WC so they can sweep.
    The simplest way to look at whether CHN is a stronger team this year is to measure the number of SS titles won to date.If CHN won 8+ titles last year by March, then CHN is weaker (as at now);if CHN had won less than 8 titles last year then they are stronger this year.If CHN needs more time for preparation to win titles than non-CHN, then it's either their training methods' not the smartest(though comprehensive) or their talents not the best or a combination of both factors.
    Siegfried's a sensible poster but I believe he missed out GO details.GO has always been CHN 's turf until the year KOR got interested.CHN team A was registered to play GO but pulled out when LYB discovered they had KOR for company or rather, that LD had LHI and PSH for company.It wasn't so much that LHI and PSH were sure to upset LD(but they certainly could) but that LHI and PSH would have drained LD mentally even in a loss.That would have jeopardised LD's chances of winning AE.
    I thought LYB would have enough confidence in having both CJ and BCL stay on and deal with LHI and PSH but LYB probably felt LD needed fresh BCL and CJ to assist him;half used-up BCL and CJ might not be good enough.
    LYB's a coach who does not take chances. It's easy to understand why.Even with all grounds covered,he still loses plainly and painfully often and looks increasingly so as non-CHN MS shore up their competitive budget,experience, confidence and their winning ways.

  9. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    The simplest way to look at whether CHN is a stronger team this year is to measure the number of SS titles won to date.If CHN won 8+ titles last year by March, then CHN is weaker (as at now);if CHN had won less than 8 titles last year then they are stronger this year.
    I questioned on why people had found Narnia's research as so much painful.
    Seriously, if i was to find out whether China is getting stronger or not, i'd not refer to him neither one of you alone.

    China is getting stronger or not, that'd be a second concern.
    But they are indeed the strongest team, period.
    And i found no reason why should we say they are just lucky and all. They won, and that's it. They lost, and that's it. People win when they are at best, and lost when they were not performed, but i'll never re-grade their awesome "All China" before, merely because the SO only gives them 3 titles instead of 5.

    I agree with psjwift, China is getting stronger if they are able to win more than they did last year. But for me, if other teams are not able to catch them up, it's not wise to say China team is getting stronger, we could also say other teams getting weaker . As simple as that. So, other teams' performance should be taken into consideration, too.

    The military camp helped them to have the AE clean sweep (most probably), and it has nothing to do with "why a strong team need the 3 months break."
    It's how they undergo the training, it's a speciality given to every team. Korea can have it too. It's unfair to not recognizing China, by saying they are just 'lucky'. I'm sure we'd want the same thing if our team win.

  10. #112
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    you never ever say that a team is stronger because all the opposition is weaker. maybe it's the opposite? maybe, the team is actually improved a lot, and the rest of the field didn't improve as much. either way, it's not a good argument.

    and yes, team china is stronger than last year. everybody from all countries are stronger than last year. if LCW in 2009 played LCW in 2008, LCW 2009 would win. same goes for the majority of players (taking out injuries and such).
    so the question the OP is asking, isn't very good. for one, everybody improved since last year, otherwise training would be pointless. secondly, you can't say that team china is a lot stronger just because they swept the AE. yes it's a good feat, but you can't base a single tournament on the success of a player or team. for example, ji xingping won the olympics, but will never be praised as a legend. morten frost never won the WC, but is seen as one of the greatest players to ever play the game.

  11. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourbestfriend View Post
    you never ever say that a team is stronger because all the opposition is weaker. maybe it's the opposite? maybe, the team is actually improved a lot, and the rest of the field didn't improve as much. either way, it's not a good argument.

    and yes, team china is stronger than last year. everybody from all countries are stronger than last year. if LCW in 2009 played LCW in 2008, LCW 2009 would win. same goes for the majority of players (taking out injuries and such).
    so the question the OP is asking, isn't very good. for one, everybody improved since last year, otherwise training would be pointless. secondly, you can't say that team china is a lot stronger just because they swept the AE. yes it's a good feat, but you can't base a single tournament on the success of a player or team. for example, ji xingping won the olympics, but will never be praised as a legend. morten frost never won the WC, but is seen as one of the greatest players to ever play the game.

    Agree with your first point. Otherwise, it'll never be a day we found a team that can overtake China. I don't agree if we keep saying they are such unbeatable. We have to get stronger, that's the thing.

    I said they are the strongest, period.
    It came to the extent that we have a poll on who's going to be a runner-up for Sudirman Cup. Because the community here believed the Champion is China even when the tour has not yet started.

  12. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by narnia View Post

    If they got stronger, why didn't sweep the SO like AE with the same squad of players?? Because of blah blah blah??? No excuses! In AE and also in SO, they had good chance of timing as many top-most ranked world players retired or didn't participate; I mean they were NOT PRESENT there. So CHN was lucky in timing.

    Ok, I went to my local club tournament, and I got into semi-final 4 times in a row. Not LD nor LCW ever accomplished such. So, I claim that LD or LCW are not truely the best, because they did not get medal from my local club tournies...

    Sure...

  13. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by narnia View Post
    REAL STRENGTH ONLY CAN BE PROVED BY CONSISTENCY.

    So, if a student got 100 in test here and there, and once a while he only get 99, he's not the best student?

    Would you say the student listed above is a good one, or someone rarely gets 50, and suddenly barely passed 65 once a better one?

  14. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by narnia View Post
    I said the opposite. Check out why I mentioned the other sports. My discussion bases on the population of each "individual" sports, not of the whole country people.
    The so call "based on population" is a total bias. Tell me how many medals India got, as they have even more people.

    If you count the achievement by population, then the entries should be based on population ratio as well to be fair. So, out of 32 entries, CHN should take 8, India should take 8 or 9, nations like DEN should never get one. So, the OG 2012 should feature at least 8 CHN players/pairs in any events, so as India. US should get at least 2 or 3, even though they hardly win anything. We will never see players from DEN any more, because they can not even submit one entry, due to lack of population.

    The "blind base" exists everywhere for ppl to make excuses. I am in charge of a database in my company (1,500 ppl) with a group of 3. Once we spotted a system issue, 3 of us all filed reports. However, the notice we got is, "Out of the whole company, only 3 file complains, so, no improvement". Excuse me, the complain rate is 100%, but not 3 out of 1,500. The rest of 1,497 will never even know anything, or interested about it... This is not a general survey of "how to improve cafe" or "how to improve the parking lot". The interested party should be only 3, not 1,500. Why you drag the "entire popultion" in, one the interested group is a very small sub-set.

  15. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy View Post
    The so call "based on population" is a total bias. Tell me how many medals India got, as they have even more people.

    If you count the achievement by population, then the entries should be based on population ratio as well to be fair. So, out of 32 entries, CHN should take 8, India should take 8 or 9, nations like DEN should never get one. So, the OG 2012 should feature at least 8 CHN players/pairs in any events, so as India. US should get at least 2 or 3, even though they hardly win anything. We will never see players from DEN any more, because they can not even submit one entry, due to lack of population.

    The "blind base" exists everywhere for ppl to make excuses. I am in charge of a database in my company (1,500 ppl) with a group of 3. Once we spotted a system issue, 3 of us all filed reports. However, the notice we got is, "Out of the whole company, only 3 file complains, so, no improvement". Excuse me, the complain rate is 100%, but not 3 out of 1,500. The rest of 1,497 will never even know anything, or interested about it... This is not a general survey of "how to improve cafe" or "how to improve the parking lot". The interested party should be only 3, not 1,500. Why you drag the "entire popultion" in, one the interested group is a very small sub-set.
    Carefully read what you quoted. I was always careful in writing this part(In another parts of my original posts, I explicitly said, it's about the population of pro full-time players).

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by narnia
    I said the opposite. Check out why I mentioned the other sports. My discussion bases on the population of each "individual" sports, not of the whole country people.
    Last edited by narnia; 04-06-2009 at 11:32 AM.

  16. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by narnia View Post
    Carefully read what you quoted. I was always careful in writing this part(In another parts of my original posts, I explicitly said, it's about the population of pro full-time players).
    Ok, 1st that I am sorry for did not read every one of your posts.

    Ok, let's get back to the topic again. Regardless you were talking about "entire population" or "pro population", I assume you were still trying to use the "population size" (as CHN has more) as an excuse to support your idea of "they win because they have more ppl", right?

    If that's the case, what's wrong with my question about, "maybe we should give CHN about 8 or 9 spots out of 32 (or at least, more than 2 or 3) in any tournaments"?

    And if you argue about the "full time pro", then maybe we should easily give CHN team say 25 out of 32 spots, as most of nations do not even have "full time pro"...

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