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  1. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    yes og is special because of the rarity and it's not fair to say anybody winning this title once or twice is the best baddy in history because og only start late, 1996 or 2000 (am not sure)?

    its just not fair to the players from the past era
    I see your point here, sounds reasonable. Then Chris may be correct, in LD current era i.e. last 10 years...and for all time best, I forgot Rudy H with his 8AEs (he is famous enough to go by his first name), sorry I don't mean Rudy Hauge

  2. #308
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    I see your point here, sounds reasonable. Then Chris may be correct, in LD current era i.e. last 10 years...and for all time best, I forgot Rudy H with his 8AEs (he is famous enough to go by his first name), sorry I don't mean Rudy Hauge
    yes, chris is correct and for the rudy h's record (the one with the artono at the back), i think with 8 ae's its safe to say nobody's going to break it for many years to come

  3. #309
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    ...
    here you use 'if' when the event hasn't come true yet and this sound more like a neutralist
    ...
    ..actually that is not hard to make or conclude....again, (to clarify) that is my own personal neutral p.o.v.
    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    ...and for all time best, I forgot Rudy H with his 8AEs (he is famous enough to go by his first name), sorry I don't mean Rudy Hauge
    On Rudy Hartono, imo, he partly got his 8 AE titles because he didn't have much competition during that time. His main or i should say real competitions were actually "stranded" in China (their own decision to go there), see Hou JC and Tang XH. If both of them actually had the chance to compete internationally (whether for INA or CHN), he probably wouldn't have those 8 AE titles. Yeah, he should thank his lucky stars, thank them & the CHN govt too..
    As for the all time best, i wouldn't put Rudy H. at the top, although winning 7 straight AE titles is really a phenomenal accomplishment. Again, different era and time. If you ask my opinion, I would put him as arguably one of the top 3 if not top 5 best MS in history.
    Last edited by ctjcad; 06-03-2010 at 12:55 PM.

  4. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..On Rudy Hartono, imo, he partly got his 8 AE titles because he didn't have much competition during that time. His main or i should say real competitions were actually "stranded" in China (their own decision to go there), see Hou JC and Tang XH. If both of them actually had the chance to compete internationally (whether for INA or CHN), he probably wouldn't have those 8 AE titles. Yeah, he should thank his lucky stars, thank them & the CHN govt too..
    As for the all time best, i wouldn't put Rudy H. at the top, although winning 7 straight AE titles is really a phenomenal accomplishment. Again, different era and time. If you ask my opinion, I would put him as arguably one of the top 3 if not top 5 best MS in history.
    Again, it it not Rudy fault that Tang/Hou did not play and Rudy won, I think we pretty much can agree on that. And we can't go back in time to find out either. Same for LCW too on WR1 with LD MIA. Rudy's 8AEs stays and so does the record. That is why it is impossible to compare different eras. Perhaps, more fitting to say Rudy was the best during his era.

  5. #311
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    ..so, who should Rudy Hartono thank for his 8 AE titles??..

  6. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..so, who should Rudy Hartono thank for his 8 AE titles??..
    Rudy thanks no one, he earned them himself...Rudy still has to beat out the best from the rest of the gang that showed up to play in all those 8AEs.

  7. #313
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    Thing and How didn't compete in international games in the 60s and 70s so couldnt count. And remember THing and How's skills were honed in Indonesia by Indonesian coaches. If Thing and How had competed whether with INA or CHN, Indonesian coaches would up the training of Rudy and his colleagues. Rudy s won all those 8 championship fair and square. Remember, the mercurial Iie Sumirat beat both Thing and How in 75. Thing and How were already in their 30s they were one generation ahead of Rudy, Muljadi and Iie. So we cant compare.

  8. #314
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    off topic:
    Tang Xinhu once (basically at the end of his playing career) beat another great player, Erland Kops (who was 5 yrs older than Tang), in an exhibition game, by the score of 15-0, 15-0..

    I think Rudy was also lucky (or maybe smart to keep himself in shape) not to sustain any injury or lingering injury; sustaining that long of an achievement was not easy..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 06-04-2010 at 09:39 AM.

  9. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    off topic:
    Tang Xinhu once (basically at the end of his playing career) beat another great player, Erland Kops (who was 5 yrs older than Tang), in an exhibition game, by the score of 15-0, 15-0..
    I think Rudy was also lucky (or maybe smart to keep himself in shape) not to sustain any injury or lingering injury; sustaining that long of an achievement was not easy..
    Exactly, all great players who maintain a long winning streak needs good health/luck to stay injury free, you can say the same for LD who has been tops for so long and injury free, in fact I have not seen LD wear brace at all. Players who play and win, as Rudy and LCW did, they earn them. Those players who opt not to play, too bad. The record stays.

  10. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    Again, it it not Rudy fault that Tang/Hou did not play and Rudy won, I think we pretty much can agree on that. And we can't go back in time to find out either. Same for LCW too on WR1 with LD MIA. Rudy's 8AEs stays and so does the record. That is why it is impossible to compare different eras. Perhaps, more fitting to say Rudy was the best during his era.
    yes, it's not Rudy's fault that better players could not compete, and no doubt Rudy got the best achievements under such circumstances. however this could not equal to 'the best player of the era'.

  11. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonc108 View Post
    yes, it's not Rudy's fault that better players could not compete, and no doubt Rudy got the best achievements under such circumstances. however this could not equal to 'the best player of the era'.
    Nod. Only as the best AE winner. That's how i would remember him
    Last edited by cooler; 06-04-2010 at 04:26 PM.

  12. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    Nod. Only as the best AE winner. That's how i would remember him
    That was simply because during that era, there was no OG nor WC and the AE was the equivalent of the latter. If badminton were recognized by the Olympic council then as one of the official games, then arguably RH was the first double Olympic champions since his AE triumphs spanned more than 8 years.

    It could went the same way to the WC as well. RH could have crowned world champions 4 times if the inaugural edition begin in the 60s and not till 1977.

    Also take note that the very first few editions of the WC was held once in every 3 years and later changed to once in 2 years unlike for 2006-2009, it was an annual event where it benefited the winner on his records book. And that is LD being the case in discussion here.

    So based on yours people ways of assumptions, I would say RH was the one who sets the bar so high that nobody could come near him statistically. For that matter, RD is the best player in the history of badminton and not LD!

    For you being ignorant, biased and only see one side of a coin, that's how I would remember you.
    Last edited by Aspire; 06-05-2010 at 06:44 AM.

  13. #319
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow We cannot say that Lin Dan is the best MS player in human history

    .
    We cannot say that Lin Dan is the best MS player in human history.

    We can only say that he is found to be the best MS player playing currently.
    .

  14. #320
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    The game is developing all the time, so the new players are better equip (technically physically equipment people suport etc) than before. So lets say today the young RH meets with LD, i will bet my house LD will not only win but will thrash RH. But ofcourse they live in different era, it was simply imposible for RH (although he may have the capability) to reach LD current level. The game simply was not yet developed to the current level. And if we look to the future, better players than LD will emerge. And they will play at the level we cant even imagine properly right now, and thats something that also imposible for LD to reach today.

    Therefore if the question is simply on LD is the best MS player ever, I would say yes. I would also say yes, if the question ask if in the future the best MS player will be better than LD. Its too simple and it happens in every sports, Tyson vs Ali, Maradona vs Pele, Federer vs Sampras etc. I like the later discussion that focuses more on the winning record, that way we can better compare apple with apple.

  15. #321
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    We cannot say that Lin Dan is the best MS player in human history.
    can't agree more

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    We can only say that he is found to be the best MS player playing currently.
    i think the sentence is not complete, we should add something like a time frame or period

    maybe:
    ''he is the best ms players during the era of lcw, pg, cj, bcl and th even thought he never was the world number 1 during that time''
    this is what i gonna tell my kids when he grows up

  16. #322
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow We cannot conclude that LD is the best

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    The game is developing all the time, so the new players are better equip (technically physically equipment people suport etc) than before. So lets say today the young RH meets with LD, i will bet my house LD will not only win but will thrash RH. But ofcourse they live in different era, it was simply imposible for RH (although he may have the capability) to reach LD current level. The game simply was not yet developed to the current level. And if we look to the future, better players than LD will emerge. And they will play at the level we cant even imagine properly right now, and thats something that also imposible for LD to reach today.

    Therefore if the question is simply on LD is the best MS player ever, I would say yes. I would also say yes, if the question ask if in the future the best MS player will be better than LD. Its too simple and it happens in every sports, Tyson vs Ali, Maradona vs Pele, Federer vs Sampras etc. I like the later discussion that focuses more on the winning record, that way we can better compare apple with apple.
    .
    That's correct; We cannot conclude that LD is the best MS Badminton player in human history.

    We can only state something like;
    LD won w AE titles
    RH won x AE titles
    FHF smashed at y speed
    TBH smashed at z speed
    etc......

    The thread opener could have put a question for us to answer, say, something like;
    Is Lin Dan the best MS baddy player in human history?
    .

  17. #323
    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    So you hate or love this guy?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3g0FXUF58o


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