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  1. #443
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    he might be the best player at the moment
    but he has the WORST attitude

    so, losing to avoid team mates battle?
    before he just WO or lose against his team mates


    LD got many big titles, it's not like he went and play every single tournament like LCW do
    he choose which one he wants, LCW does not choose, he will play as long as there is a tournament to his fullest

    LD?
    LYB order:
    oh yeah, let's do walkover
    hey CL, makes LCW tired first so LD can steamroll him in the final
    CL got not enough point for OG? hey Singaporeans! your cold water makes LD sick, LD can't play today

  2. #444
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow I can sense even in our BCers' comments......

    Quote Originally Posted by S.fusion View Post
    Ok, may be LD is the best but will he be remembered as a great player in times to come? To be called a great player is much harder, it takes into account beyond the skills, the personality. I will call someone a great player by seeing how much he contributes to the world of badminton, like what Tiger Woods has done in golf. Although his reputation has been tainted by recent *** scandals this does not take away the fact tht he has single handedly changed ppl's view to golf, because of him, the prize money has ballooned multiple times to the benefits of all pro. Players as well as increased the general exposure to the game all over the world both golfers n non golfers alike. Sadly, I have yet to see anyone equivalent in badminton.
    .
    I agree.

    To be a great player but not performing his/her best in every tournament, doesn't show his/her true 'greatness'.

    Perhaps there is a difference between Eastern and Western cultures.

    In Eastern culture, when 'great', they often not disclose it. In Western culture, when 'great', they will disclose it.

    I can sense even in our BCers' comments; some follow the Western culture, some Eastern.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 10-22-2011 at 11:22 AM.

  3. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    I agree.

    To be a great player but not performing his/her best in every tournament, doesn't show his/her true 'greatness'.

    Perhaps there is a difference between Eastern and Western cultures.

    In Eastern culture, when 'great', they often not disclose it. In Western culture, when 'great', they will disclose it.

    I can sense even in our BCers' comments; some follow the Western culture, some Eastern.
    .

    I don't think you should be so hard on Taufik, even Though he doesnt perform at his best in every tournament....

  4. #446
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    I don't think you should be so hard on Taufik, even Though he doesnt perform at his best in every tournament....
    .
    I was referring to Lin Dan, not Taufik.

    Taufik is older and slower now, to be the best in the world.

    I am sure that Taufik will agree with me.
    .

  5. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .I agree. To be a great player but not performing his/her best in every tournament, doesn't show his/her true 'greatness'..Perhaps there is a difference between Eastern and Western cultures.In Eastern culture, when 'great', they often not disclose it. In Western culture, when 'great', they will disclose it.I can sense even in our BCers' comments; some follow the Western culture, some Eastern. .
    Well, eastern, western, black, yellow, White.... Underneath the skin, the blood is still red.To not perform to his or her Best potential at any tournament intentionally is an insult to not just the opponents but also to all those who is passionated abt badminton. So far, the walkover by LD to help his team mates are just speculation and we will never know the truth unless he himself admits it. is badminton an individual sport or a team sport? Ok, some says LD picks n chooses the tournament he wants to play and LCW plays in all of them, who is the wiser guy here? Al I know is if I'm a LD fan, I will be disappointed not to see him play

  6. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.fusion View Post
    Ok, may be LD is the best but will he be remembered as a great player in times to come? To be called a great player is much harder, it takes into account beyond the skills, the personality. I will call someone a great player by seeing how much he contributes to the world of badminton, like what Tiger Woods has done in golf. Although his reputation has been tainted by recent *** scandals this does not take away the fact tht he has single handedly changed ppl's view to golf, because of him, the prize money has ballooned multiple times to the benefits of all pro. Players as well as increased the general exposure to the game all over the world both golfers n non golfers alike. Sadly, I have yet to see anyone equivalent in badminton.
    Firstly, I need to get this off my chest. The title has been bugging me no end. Why ".... human history?" Is there some alien form out there that could make LD look live a novice? Are animals covered? Is the OP secretly aware of a racket-wielding cow or pig and therefore means to exclude them? Sorry, just my insanity taking over.

    Back on track.

    You can't give Tiger a pass for his indiscretions if you don't give LD one for his. This completely blows up your theory for greatness. And BTW, LD has a great personality. Hasn't LD changed people's views of badminton too, to the point many believe he is one of the best ever? Just like Tiger, everyone wants to watch LD.

  7. #449
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    btw, tiger woods has shite personality! being the best like i said before doesnt mean he will become the greteast player ever. no one can compare him with past great players especially players from different era. mark my words, not too long from now, there will be someone who will exceed and surpass LD/LCW. this is not a question of if, it's when!
    IMHO, its futile to continue this discussion of who is great and who isnt simply for the above reasons.I think the original poster's head was a bit bloated when he typed the title. hahaha

    Quote Originally Posted by madbad View Post
    Firstly, I need to get this off my chest. The title has been bugging me no end. Why ".... human history?" Is there some alien form out there that could make LD look live a novice? Are animals covered? Is the OP secretly aware of a racket-wielding cow or pig and therefore means to exclude them? Sorry, just my insanity taking over.

    Back on track.

    You can't give Tiger a pass for his indiscretions if you don't give LD one for his. This completely blows up your theory for greatness. And BTW, LD has a great personality. Hasn't LD changed people's views of badminton too, to the point many believe he is one of the best ever? Just like Tiger, everyone wants to watch LD.

  8. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    Yop, LCW should send you an autographed racket for your praise with thanks Just hope Datuk play smart in SF tomorrow to LOSE... but I don't think he will do it as I expect LCW to fight like a warrior or a samurai or a ninja as you say....
    Hahaha no need, I'll just be happy watching LCW, that's all. LCW is in the final now as I expected

  9. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    And LD trains one on one?? Give me a break. 3 vs 1 is a training method use by all countries including CHN and LD. CHN is a lucky country, they can tap a super large pool of players to bring LD to his standard today (or yesterday I should say). How a skinny guy like LCW can raise beyond LD quality with such limited resources, I think is incredible. 100% credit should be given to all people who made what LCW he is today, but to me the largest credit should be given to LCW himself a workaholic badminton maniac and a warrior in his own right. Badminton world is grateful to have him as an ambassador. Not to mention, one that always gave his 100% in court.
    Of course LD receives support. I never denied that to begin with. The proportion of Malaysian national resources (sparring partners, money, coaching, etc) spent on LCW, however, is at least equal to, if not more than, the proportion of Chinese national resources spent on LD. It is not "lucky" that China has a large pool of resources, considering they also have many other top level players such as CL, CJ, DPY, WZM, etc. It's not placing all their eggs in one basket (IE, what BAM is doing), to the extent that LCW is light years ahead of all the other Malaysian MS players, who seldom make it past R1 or R2 in SS level tournaments. Undoubtly LCW should receive credit for achieving what he has today; whether he's skinny or not, I don't see that being relevant. Are you then saying LD shouldn't get the credit for his achievements?

  10. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamsyams View Post
    Of course LD receives support. I never denied that to begin with. The proportion of Malaysian national resources (sparring partners, money, coaching, etc) spent on LCW, however, is at least equal to, if not more than, the proportion of Chinese national resources spent on LD. It is not "lucky" that China has a large pool of resources, considering they also have many other top level players such as CL, CJ, DPY, WZM, etc. It's not placing all their eggs in one basket (IE, what BAM is doing), to the extent that LCW is light years ahead of all the other Malaysian MS players, who seldom make it past R1 or R2 in SS level tournaments. Undoubtly LCW should receive credit for achieving what he has today; whether he's skinny or not, I don't see that being relevant. Are you then saying LD shouldn't get the credit for his achievements?
    You must be kidding to talk in terms of proportion. 100% of BAM s coach resources cannot even come close to 10% of CHN s. It s about the quality of the coaches. MAS coaches are great in skills training. Beyond that, they are no match for CHN s coaches in terms of tactics, analyzing opponent s games to the hilt. In the end, it s the tactics that determine the outcome (everything being equal.) I can t imagine MAS coaches sitting through intensive video analysis because that s too hard for them. LCW is a unique MAS badminton specimen because he has developed the discipline and diligence to work towards achieving his goals. Remember, in BAM, the coaches cannot discipline the players; it has to come from the players themselves and LCW is the only one who could do that, that s why he gets to where he is. In CHN, to stay in the Team, discipline and diligence is standard requisite. Team CHN also get support in the form of opponent clones so they get prior match rehearsals before the real encounter. That s how their their youngsters like CL and WZM can upset LCW and TH in their first meetings and then get back to earth in subsequent matches. But the most priceless asset would be the synergy of their quality coaches who can analyze, think, strategise and devise tactics which the clones can apply. CHN coach support is always positive. In the past when their players have confidence in winning, LYB sat in the coach chair. Nowadays, CHN players are not sure of winning, so they always talk about ' results not important'. This kind of talk is to minimize pressure when the outcome is not so assured like in the past. And if LYB were to sit on the coach s chair, he would make them nervous. LCW, on the other hand, may be better without coaches. When LCW lost to LD in WC, the coach said LCW might still be bothered by LD. That s a lousy coach to have around if that s true. It means the coach has not done his job by unquestionably shoring up LCW s confidence. The most important task of a coach is to assure LCW of his confidence in him. And he can list out the reasons. One would be LD s serial avoidance of him because LD is afraid of losing, or not confident of winning. That kind of behaviour is despicable and LCW should despise LD as a coward. Mentally that would set the tone for confidence because how can anyone be afraid of a coward?Actually, LCW would be CHN coaches dream player and if he had their guidance, LD wouldn t even come close.

  11. #453
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    Is arrogance a good thing? When 2 of the best players play against each other, it's not the skills tht set them apart, it's the mental quality. Personally, I think this is where LD has an upper hand. Does LcW has any off court presence? We r not talking abt ordinary person here, I am talking abt the elites. They all share the hunger to be the best in the world at all cost. humility and kindness are not part of the parcel. One example is to look at Tiger woods, the statistic on his winnings during a playoff is incredible, something like 28 out of 32 playoffs. He may not be the best player on tht day but he still wins, why? Because of his presence, the aura around him tht his opponents feel as if they have already been beaten even before they hit the ball. Tht I think is what LCW needs. I only wish BAM would look to explore psychological part of the game and its' players.
    Last edited by S.fusion; 10-23-2011 at 06:29 AM.

  12. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamsyams View Post
    Of course LD receives support. I never denied that to begin with. The proportion of Malaysian national resources (sparring partners, money, coaching, etc) spent on LCW, however, is at least equal to, if not more than, the proportion of Chinese national resources spent on LD. It is not "lucky" that China has a large pool of resources, considering they also have many other top level players such as CL, CJ, DPY, WZM, etc. It's not placing all their eggs in one basket (IE, what BAM is doing), to the extent that LCW is light years ahead of all the other Malaysian MS players, who seldom make it past R1 or R2 in SS level tournaments. Undoubtly LCW should receive credit for achieving what he has today; whether he's skinny or not, I don't see that being relevant. Are you then saying LD shouldn't get the credit for his achievements?
    No I did not say that. Surely LD works very hard, but any statement that LCW got more assistant is a total rubbish. It's all comes down to the individual on how hard and how good they want to be. Talking about resources, just do the math MAS with 28 million population vs CHN 1.3 billion, that means CHN should have 46 LDs (or LCWs) to match MAS achievement. Of course I know it's not all about population but from that stat we can understand how good or develop MAS badminton community is.

  13. #455
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    We all have our opinions, but one opinion that is more meaningful than all of ours put together is Peter Gade's. When asked, he said that Lin Dan is "maybe the best player ever." I think he knows a "little" more about the subject than we do. You can read his comments about who HE thinks is best here: http://www.badzine.net/features/badm...e-great/16807/
    Last edited by gjoo888; 10-25-2011 at 06:29 PM.

  14. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    No I did not say that. Surely LD works very hard, but any statement that LCW got more assistant is a total rubbish. It's all comes down to the individual on how hard and how good they want to be. Talking about resources, just do the math MAS with 28 million population vs CHN 1.3 billion, that means CHN should have 46 LDs (or LCWs) to match MAS achievement. Of course I know it's not all about population but from that stat we can understand how good or develop MAS badminton community is.
    That's based on the assumption that the percentages of population choose badminton between these two countries are the same. Do not forget many people in China's countryside have never seen a badminton net or racket. And badminton is not that popular before. Most people play basketball and ping pong and watch football.

  15. #457
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    Lin Dan won more medals than LCW. Hmmm....Think its obvious who's the best since LCW has not obtained the elusive Olympics Gold Medal so what if he is labeled number #1 when the most coveted prize medal is still missing from his trophy cabinet.
    History is blunt when judging such things. Hence, LCW should really, really buck up and maybe follow the stance of Lin Dan to be selective in the games played due to his age.
    Its also worrying that Malaysia has no spare player in the line-up to replace LCW in his fading years.

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    Regular Member V1lau's Avatar
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    Uber LD(Olympics 08) > Super LD(Asian Games 10) > Super LCW (All England 11) = LD > 90%LD > LCW
    LCW > Shopping LD(Denmark 11) ... I think that's about right?!?!

  17. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    No I did not say that. Surely LD works very hard, but any statement that LCW got more assistant is a total rubbish. It's all comes down to the individual on how hard and how good they want to be. Talking about resources, just do the math MAS with 28 million population vs CHN 1.3 billion, that means CHN should have 46 LDs (or LCWs) to match MAS achievement. Of course I know it's not all about population but from that stat we can understand how good or develop MAS badminton community is.
    I think you got yourself a bit mixed up there. First you say that it's up to the individual on how good they want to be, and then you praise the Malaysian badminton community for being developed. Surely one of those must be wrong?

    In addition to what laonong said, by your extrapolation the rest of the world put together should have something like 200 LDs/LCWs, so obviously that analogy is kind of flawed, isn't it?

    pjswift, I don't know what inside information you have on the Chinese team that you can have such depth of knowledge about their training programme, but I'd be very surprised if LCW didn't have LD-styled sparring partners in Malaysia. And the jab on LD being a coward is just amusing and sad at the same time.

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