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  1. #120
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    It is a fact that power and speed are important components of badminton - is not new concept as the Chinese players of the 60s already incorporated it in their game; Tang Xinfu is an example. Today's Lin Dan playing resembles more of Tang's play in his prime.

    In my opinion, technique is very important to enable one to take full advantage of the power and speed on court. Without comparing players of past and present, we can watch matches: Lin Dan vs Taufik in WC; Xia vs Hendrawan; Gade vs Hendrawan; if you like older matches - Kristen Larsen vs Zheng Yuli; Yang Yang vs Sugiarto.

  2. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by viver View Post
    It is a fact that power and speed are important components of badminton - is not new concept as the Chinese players of the 60s already incorporated it in their game; Tang Xinfu is an example. Today's Lin Dan playing resembles more of Tang's play in his prime.

    In my opinion, technique is very important to enable one to take full advantage of the power and speed on court. Without comparing players of past and present, we can watch matches: Lin Dan vs Taufik in WC; Xia vs Hendrawan; Gade vs Hendrawan; if you like older matches - Kristen Larsen vs Zheng Yuli; Yang Yang vs Sugiarto.
    technique is a very loosey goosey term. It can basically cover everything under the badminton sun

    Power vs Technique

    LD uses an enhanced AT700 and LCW uses AT900 Power

    Taufik uses AT900 Technique. (now ArcS 10)

    whose's winning lately?

  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    technique is a very loosey goosey term. It can basically cover everything under the badminton sun

    Power vs Technique

    LD uses an enhanced AT700 and LCW uses AT900 Power

    Taufik uses AT900 Technique. (now ArcS 10)

    whose's winning lately?
    omg. i expect less hollow an argument from cooler than that.

  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    omg. i expect less hollow an argument from cooler than that.
    i was just kitten/cat scratching the surface. Will prefer debate in detail in the appropriate threads As observed by most other members here, power is becoming a stronger desirable skill for today's singles and doubles. I can't go further in discussing this issue if we use the broad term better technique. Footwork is related to technique which lead to both speed and energy efficiency. Therefore, Technique embody subset skills of speed from footwork and energy management (stamina). and body/muscle coordination to extract more power and accuracy and deception from racket stroke skills. What we need is to compare and debate each of these skills at its core components. In my long debate with viver, my main point is that more speed is more desirable than having more stroke skills but he was so dazzled by some of old greats i can't shake him off that.

    From a pro player point of view, it is often said by them that speed difference give them the win or lost. On the flip side, if one ask the audience which players played better, they will say the one with the better and fancy stroke and deception. Now, is viver talking from a spectator or a pro player point of view????? that is why i pressed him for a positon from him, then i'd know where he is coming from
    Last edited by cooler; 03-16-2009 at 04:44 PM.

  5. #124
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    Default Power vs. technique

    To compare technique vs. power, I suggest a thought experiment a la Einstein's:
    To compare whether player A relies more on power to win player B, let's say both players take a drug before a match that reduces their maximum muscle power output by 50%. If the difference (say point difference) is narrowed between A and B, or B wins over A now, then player A relies more on power than B.

    Why does it mean? For amateurs, they may actually have only 50% (or 70%, whatever) of power output of pros. If they mimic A style, they may win less despite A wins B more frequently. They will win more plyaing B style b/c they can compensate lack of power with technique at their level.

  6. #125
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    i was just kitten/cat scratching the surface. Will prefer debate in detail in the appropriate threads As observed by most other members here, power is becoming a stronger desirable skill for today's singles and doubles. I can't go further in discussing this issue if we use the broad term better technique. Footwork is related to technique which lead to both speed and energy efficiency. Therefore, Technique embody subset skills of speed from footwork and energy management (stamina). and body/muscle coordination to extract more power and accuracy and deception from racket stroke skills. What we need is to compare and debate each of these skills at its core components.
    that's much more substantiated an argument than the previous one. thanks .

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    that's much more substantiated an argument than the previous one. thanks .
    i try not to go off topic too much u know

  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wong8Egg View Post
    Let's face it, power and speed is a big part of badminton and that's why you don't see 40 years old folks compete in the professional circuit. And power and speed is an OBVIOUS advantage of today's player when compare to the old.
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...tats+stopwatch

    This thread through semi scientific strived to prove the speed was little different to nowadays.

  9. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...tats+stopwatch

    This thread through semi scientific strived to prove the speed was little different to nowadays.
    good find, i'll read up on that....
    I think i miss reading that thread but is work is calling me
    Last edited by cooler; 03-16-2009 at 05:16 PM.

  10. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    good find, i'll read up on that....
    I think i miss reading that thread but is work is calling me
    I can't believe you never commented in that thread!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    I can't believe you never commented in that thread!
    maybe because the thread title wasn't that catchy

  12. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    maybe because the thread title wasn't that catchy

    Those were the days before the word LD or LCW was included as a staple in thread titles.........

  13. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by mettayogi View Post
    TH made history by winning OG and WC and AG before LD.
    LD made history by winning OG and WC and AE.
    Is that what you're talking about?
    too primitive. A player like LD impressed on millions of players, changed their thinking, built new rules, promoted a sport itself to new levels.
    Is it smth you need to listen again? I think everyone knows enough about this.
    All titles are just the acknowledgement who is who.

  14. #133
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    I believe what I said is, that one game shows ZJH has no difficulty playing at a pace of 1997's badminton. Thus refuting your claim that any top 10 can beat ZJH because the speed today is faster.

    Also I think we should clarify one thing. Since we are comparing players, we have to allow ZJH to use state-of-the-art equipments, which means ZJH will immediately be able to play faster than in the 1985 video. Or, we can give LD a 1985 racket with 27-28 lb string and see how fast a game he can play.

    When watching the 1985 video, I think what we should concentrate on is the physical ability of the players. Just look at how agile ZJH is when moving around the court, look at how fast he can react, how quickly he can move/jump, and then take a look at any game of today's TH, Persson, PG move. I don't see much difference (in fact I think ZJH in 1985 is better).

    I am not sure how many people with agree that PG in 2006 is a stronger player than PG in 1999. Don't forget that PG's style is more Asian than European.

    I don't get your point of using 40 yr olds as examples. Do you mean a 25 yr old ZJH has physical ability similar to a 40 yr old player today? If that's the case, in 30 years we will see supermen flying around badminton courts.

    My opinion is the following. What has improved a lot, is a player's ability to play several consecutive matches. Therefore if ZJH came and play a tournament today, he may not be able to go very far. But as long as we are talk about a "prime vs prime" duel, I would put ZJH just below LD/LCW today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wong8Egg View Post
    You can't determine ZJH is better than PG based on the result of 1 game. Hint you can't say LCW is definitely better than LD based on a result of 1 game. More importantly,
    Player A > Player B
    Player B > Player C
    is != (not equal) player A > Player C

    And your so call fact, is just your own opinion. European player tend to peak at later age and I think today's Gade is actually better than he was in 1999, at least in the 2004-2006 period.

    Again, I urge you to watch the video I posted instead of linking unrelated match result to a conclusion. The pace of today's badminton would write off ZJH. It is not ZJH fault that the standard of badminton is not as fast in the old days, while Gade is improving and adopted it over the course of years.

    Let's face it, power and speed is a big part of badminton and that's why you don't see 40 years old folks compete in the professional circuit. And power and speed is an OBVIOUS advantage of today's player when compare to the old.

  15. #134
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    Not all players today rely on speed and power. Players like LHI and PSH never reply on speed and power, and they can still beat LD and LCW once a while. To say that any top 10 players can crush YY and ZJH...

  16. #135
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    You are right. 2 WC 2nd place for Frost.

    Quote Originally Posted by badssp07 View Post
    Hi Mettatogi:
    Frost has never won any World Championships, he was only runner-up twice if I remember correctly !

  17. #136
    Regular Member Badmintan's Avatar
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    Default If they mated

    Anyone has a software to merge the faces of Lin Dan and Xie Xingfang together? It'll be cool kinda like the Late Night with Conan O'Brien Show.
    eg. http://www.nbc.com/nbc/Late_Night_wi...n/iftheymated/

    I mean if Lin Dan and Xie Xingfang mated, their offspring will have super badminton genes, kinda like Steffi Graf/Andre Agassi pairing for tennis.

    Imagined how many titles their son or daughter will win.

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