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04-16-2009, 07:30 PM #18
In this day in age with so many people being scammed including any one in involved in the Bernie Madoff scandal, and also the Enron scandal, it's important these days to have moral ethics. If you keep a coach on board that lied to get there, its saying its ok to lie. Naturally he had to resign when the school found out, because 1) they wouldve fired him anyways and 2) he knew it was wrong! I argue its not harmless because it sets a standard of practices that everyone else will follow. It sets a precedence for how to act in the 'field' and although it may begin as something small as moving a few dollars from one account to another, or 'fluffing' up a resume but that is only the beginning of what it can easily turn into when a few dollars become a few million and 'fluffing' becomes straight up lies.
If we all practice good ethics then we could all work hard together rather than cheating one another and taking short cuts. If this coach's talent was so great he couldve done something great at a lower highschool or semi professional level and moved into the spotlight after he proved he belonged. Clearly he didnt belong and he got what he deserved.
Bringing this back to badminton, imagine if you had a line judge that was crooked. They could call your shots out, or fault you on your serve and that can easily cost you the match. It may start out with a few bad line calls, but turns into costing you the match.
And if that isnt bringing it home, imagine you are competing against some one for a position/job/badminton match, anything really and you lose to them. You may or may not be dissapointed, you may be satisfied with your performance by giving it your all, but when you find out you were cheated and you actually deserved the spot, but may now never get it, although you were runner up, that would frustrate you knowing you were that close, but cheated out of what you actually deserved.
04-16-2009, 11:07 PM #19
Yes, "Ethics! Its all about ethics!"---> I totally agree with this statement. This is a very complex topic for discussion if you taking outside the CONTEXT OF ABC situation. But, if you contain within the situation and look at the BIG picture---WE are making a big deal out of something that is so belittle in argument. All the coaches at ABC in my humble opinion have the ability to coach badminton from beginners to advance player. But, if you expect a coach to Make you the next LIN DAN---Then i totally strongly feel you need to REVIEW the coach's experience , and asked his champion creation and be prepare to HAVE big POCKET TO pay for IT $$$$$$$$$$.
04-16-2009, 11:13 PM #20
For example, Li Mao as a player, is never at LCW's or even LHI's level. However, he made both players shine at the time he was the coach. So, he has "something" to make his students to jump to the next level.
LD, as another case, unless he can change his temper a bit, I seriously doubt he can be an effective coach, as many might think he's over pushing.
Seriously, for 99.9% of us, does it really matter if our coach is LD, or someone "only as good as" joe doe ex-international player, or "even just" as local regional elite players?
04-16-2009, 11:29 PM #21
Yes, LazyBuddy: We are saying the same things in a different ways. And I totally agree the big picture :"for 99.9% of us, does it really matter if our coach is LD, or someone "only as good as" joe doe ex-international player, or "even just" as local regional elite players?"----->>>>>All the coaches at ABC in my humble opinion have the ability to coach badminton from beginners to advance player. We are talking about children here learning the basic game of badminton and trying to develop the skill at early age. We don't expect to turn a kid into the NEXT LIN D at age 12 y/o Badminton WonderBOY--->maybe i will turn my kid into ONE!!! j/k ...happy badminton to all....
04-17-2009, 04:21 PM #22
Can you all imagine if you bring your car for repair with assumption the mechanic is good, when actually your car is his or her class book experiment?
07-22-2009, 03:29 PM #23
what's up with the dad sitting at court side for 2 years not noticing the problem until, one day, one match.....Oops.
Dad, I need you to sit at the court side and watch me train. Not the girl with mini skirt next court!
07-23-2009, 11:33 AM #24
07-29-2009, 12:06 PM #25
03-16-2010, 06:34 PM #26
My 2 cents,
- It is dishonest to embellish your achievements, look at some of the norcal coaches, they're not even chinese national players but they still do well. If the information were truly falsafied, I feel the coaches owe their students and parents of their students an apology if not something more.
- A refund is out of the question. If you feel your kid is not improving, you should have taken him or her out after 1-2 months not 2 "YEARS". Come on "dad"...... the girl in the mini skirt is 40+, time to get better glasses.
- Wikipedia is not a valid source for verification because of the way they provide the information. The information provided are subject to questioning becuase users can edit the information. The only way to check is to send email to BWF.
- Achievements does not mean they are a better teacher. Like many have said sometimes good coaches aren't even good players. In fact if the kid was a beginner, any D player probably could have given him the basics. The only time I think the coaches would be useful in having the list of achievements (besides anal asian parents wanting the credentials), would be that they can prep the kid psychologically. What it is like under tournament pressure, how to cope or deal with wins and loses...etc.
- A student performing poorly is not the sole responsibility of the coach. The student has to "WANT" the sport. If the dad forced the kid or the kid just treats it as recreational of course the result won't be as good. You take a kid that really wants to learn and the progress explodes exponentially. A few local examples are...
Coach Johannah's kids Raymond, Cherryl
Coach Grace's kids Iris, Rena
Coach "JAMES HUANG's" kids Kenneth, Richard
Coach "INGRID CHEN's" kids Jacqueline, Catherine
Coach Andy Jap's kid Phillip
- I think ultimately you have to COMMUNICATE. Tell the coach what your goals are for your kid or for yourself. Do you want him to just be able to play and have fun, or compete...etc. Maybe even point out to others, say you want ur kid to be like "that kid". From there the coach may communicate with you on what needs to be done. 2 years, come on.....coulda told the coach by week 4, he's not doing well why...etc.
Last edited by Bubbles; 03-16-2010 at 06:39 PM. Reason: just some editing of the paragraph
03-17-2010, 06:55 PM #27
The feedback and follow up by ABC while commendable, seems rather bipolar behavior as all comments made regarding these coaches in question seems designed to distance ABC as far as possible from these “freelance” coaches in question.
ABC really does not benefit from having these coaches operate in their facility? Say that coaches get paid directly from customers – ABC does not charge coaches for facility usage fee? ABC does not benefit in other ways such as reputation, additional membership, etc.,?
To me, the fact that training takes place at ABC and ABC markets these coaches (website) constitutes affiliation, therefore shared responsibility, even if not directly employed for pay.
Regardless, I would expect facilities such as ABC to not only verify qualifications but also perform detailed background check on every coaching candidates for the sake of the kids that are being taught.
Also, an exaggeration/misrepresentation is one thing, but saying that a person won a prestigious badminton tournament when in fact, the person did not, is a just an outright lie that goes against all confirmed & recorded results. There is a big difference.
And don't even compare this to eating a bad food and complaining about it years later for a refund since I don’t think OP states anywhere about when they realized the questionable qualification of these coaches but rather suggests that the discovery was recent event.
I would be pissed off too if someone advertised that they were qualified at something but in fact lied about that qualification or level of it to attain/retain my business no matter how much time went by. And I really do think past tournament wins/results are being used by badminton coaches and facilities as proof that this person is qualified to teach/coach badminton since there is no "official" certification or standards to measure coaching knowledge/skill.
If the coaching services were retained even after the discovery of dubious qualifications then I agree that it is conveniently selective to voice any complaints now.
This is not to say that I agree with OP and his friend’s opinion on this matter.
OP stated that the kid in question was playing against another kid with far better skills also from ABC. Huh? Hmm… perhaps same coaches at same facility… different kids… different level of play = one kid is more gifted/interested in badminton than the other? I mean who’s to say that the kid in question is not particularly gifted or perhaps just not motivated to improve in badminton which can explain the lack of improvement over 2 years?
And badminton at young age should be more about fun in exercise, learning, social interaction, etc., and less about how my son is better than other kids. Additionally only because a coach may or may not have lied on what tournaments were won in the past does not constitute the individual as a poor coach but rather an unethical one if lying indeed took place.
On a similar note, asking for refund for services which obviously were rendered to the father’s reasonable expectations (father was always there OP said) is quite unfair. Even if the qualifications advertised were partially untrue, the coaches obviously had to expertise and capability and coached/trained this kid.
It seems to me that a misguided parental ambition for their kid (either that or money) is the motivating factor that is inciting such resentment in this case.
Forget about the money and forget about coach not winning few tournaments in the past really don’t matter or even how little your kid improved compared to another…
What’s really important is do I really want this coach who is proved to be unethical, teaching my kid? Do I want my kid to continue to attend a facility that knowingly affiliates itself with such coaches?
10-05-2011, 05:02 PM #28
Should be real. Check out her playing against Lin Dan on youtube.com
10-05-2011, 05:40 PM #29
The kid that they played against, how good were they?
Even with good coaching, a more experienced player that can read the game can make an opponent with good shots but lack of match experience look like a beginner.
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