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  1. #18
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot View Post
    Yes, the two string jobs can and most likely will be different (unless the inexperienced stringer is, by chance, a good stringer).
    so that begs the question i have been asking... what does the experience stringer know that the other don't? what technique is used?

    You should send me a couple of racket/string combos that you know are good. I'll string them at the same tension(s) you request, send back, and you tell me if there's a difference.
    i wish i have good rackets to spare.

    well, i hope i will in the future. i want to try the same experiment myself. when i am done with mine, i can send one to you.

  2. #19
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    so that begs the question i have been asking... what does the experience stringer know that the other don't? what technique is used?
    It'll sound redundant and obvious because it's all been said before here, the better stringer will have:

    1) Better technique
    2) Better timing
    3) More consistent pulls
    4) Better clamping skills
    5) Better starting knots and tie-offs
    6) Minimal string twisting

    Which all leads to a more consistent, uniform, string tension across the racket.

    You'd need to watch someone string to start and understand but even then, you'll probably miss a lot because the stringer is going too fast for you to fully see what they are doing.

    Ideally, you'd need to spend about an hour or two with an experienced stringer and have him/her string a racket, slowly, you watch, he/she goes step-by-step, you ask questions. Then you string the same racket while they watch and give you commentary.

  3. #20
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    I forgot to mention, at tensions of 22lbs. ECP and lower, a good/bad string job is not so apparent. At 23-27lbs. ECP, it's significantly more apparent. At 28lbs. and above, there can be a huge difference.

    Also, the string used can be a huge difference. For instance, I strung up a couple of APACS Tantrum 200s, one with BG66 at 28lbs. In order to get the same (as close as possible) feel/crispness on BG65, I had to string it at 32lbs.

    Another example is the racket, some are better at holding tension than others but this is minor compared to the string differences.

  4. #21
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot View Post
    It'll sound redundant and obvious because it's all been said before here, the better stringer will have:

    1) Better technique
    2) Better timing
    3) More consistent pulls
    4) Better clamping skills
    5) Better starting knots and tie-offs
    6) Minimal string twisting

    Which all leads to a more consistent, uniform, string tension across the racket.
    it sounds like what you are trying to tell me is that consistent and uniform string tension alone will lead to better playability? i am still trying to connect the dots here.

  5. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot View Post
    Yes, the two string jobs can and most likely will be different (unless the inexperienced stringer is, by chance, a good stringer).
    You mean same racket, same machine, same stringer (inexperienced), same string & tension (basically everything the same). Still be able to produce a different result? Quite interesting because I never knew this. So far until now if I string same model racket, string, tension. it will produce the same result.

    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot View Post
    It'll sound redundant and obvious because it's all been said before here, the better stringer will have:

    1) Better technique
    2) Better timing
    3) More consistent pulls
    4) Better clamping skills
    5) Better starting knots and tie-offs
    6) Minimal string twisting
    DinkAlot, can you explain number 2? what do you mean by better timing? Thank you.

  6. #23
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    it sounds like what you are trying to tell me is that consistent and uniform string tension alone will lead to better playability? i am still trying to connect the dots here.
    Yes, consistency which results in the uniformity of string tension is the main reason for better playability.

    Kwun, don't think too much into this, it's easy once someone demonstrates.

  7. #24
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ae86trueno View Post
    You mean same racket, same machine, same stringer (inexperienced), same string & tension (basically everything the same). Still be able to produce a different result? Quite interesting because I never knew this. So far until now if I string same model racket, string, tension. it will produce the same result.
    No offense intended and I may come off as sounding a bit impatient, it's not my intention but...

    ...of course, same everything unless otherwise stated (we have gone through this on BC in so many posts; I have posted at least 50 times some thing to the effect: ceteris paribus, all else being equal, unless stated otherwise, everything else is equal... That's the reason why I stopped visiting/posting on BC, too much redundancy).

    OK, back to the two stringers, one being good (consistent), one being bad (inconsistent), everything else being equal, assuming they do their respective jobs, one stringing consistently and the other stringing inconsistently will produce different results that are noticeable to an intermediate to advanced player.


    Quote Originally Posted by ae86trueno View Post
    DinkAlot, can you explain number 2? what do you mean by better timing? Thank you.
    If you have rhythm or better timing, you will string faster and be more consistent.

  8. #25
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    There can be too many scenarios in the original question. The focus should on the consistency. If you string consistently, the string pattern will be uniform which leads to better playability and will minimize stress on the racket for a longer life span.

    Actually, a "bad" stringer can string well if he/she is consistently inconsistent. How? Whatever the stringer does wrong, if he/she continues to do it wrong the same way, it's consistent. The desired tension may not be achieved (will be lower) but the tension will be uniform...

    ...an example: this bad stringer only uses one floating clamp to clamp the strings and this floating clamps slips. Each pull looses about 3lbs. due to slippage and the stringer's inability to crank/thread/tighten the string/etc... effectively. However, if this stringer uses this bad technique and clamping each time, consistently, the string job will be consistent. So let's assume the racket is supposed to be strung at 30lbs. crank. This stringer's job will be about 27lbs. and a good one, just not 30lbs.

    So, one needs to recognize these things and compensate. In the case of the stringer above, he/she would need to string at 33lbs. to get the actual 30lbs. desired.

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot View Post
    No offense intended and I may come off as sounding a bit impatient, it's not my intention but...
    Yep no worries I dont feel that at all

    ...of course, same everything unless otherwise stated (we have gone through this on BC in so many posts; I have posted at least 50 times some thing to the effect: ceteris paribus, all else being equal, unless stated otherwise, everything else is equal... That's the reason why I stopped visiting/posting on BC, too much redundancy).
    Yep understand, I know how you feel, i felt the same also (not in this forum)

    OK, back to the two stringers, one being good (consistent), one being bad (inconsistent), everything else being equal, assuming they do their respective jobs, one stringing consistently and the other stringing inconsistently will produce different results that are noticeable to an intermediate to advanced player.
    I agree with consistency. before I string myself, I prefer stringer who can string consistent even if the result is not the best. at least I know when I ask specific request I will get that.

    If you have rhythm or better timing, you will string faster and be more consistent.
    I see, thank you for clarifying

  10. #27
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    I would agree with Sir DinkALot. Also, just to add 1 more point about ES5Pro. From what I was taught about ES5pro and what I have done with other machines. The advantage of ECP machine is consistency. Given an inexperienced stringer is well taught and just follow all the instruction point by point, the inexperienced stringer will produce a string job close to 95% of an instructor level stringer. It is just like training a robot to string a racquet. Only difference in this case is the speed and some very minor details which the instructor don't even notice they are doing. Sorry Kwun, the best thing to do is to have a string fest (and beer fest too) at a club in N. Cal or S. Cal. Let's just have fun stringing and get to know what you and other do and you might see some difference.
    Actually, I will propose to the evil empire office in torrrance to sponsor a string fest in OCBC. What do you think?

  11. #28
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    This thread makes me want to get Tennishead 2086.
    I only have HQ table top stringing machine. After I measure the horizontal bar to racket shaft its only 17cm height. Will plan to modify the height to allow Tennishead on it

  12. #29
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    this makes me wonder if there's a placebo effect with string jobs.

    let's say person A had two of the exact same racket, and took one racket to his local stringer who has been stringing for 5+ years (with relatively good praise coming from the locals), and took his other racket to alan kakinami, under the guise of an inexperienced stringer who is just in his first week. after testing, person A comes to the conclusion that alan kakinami's string job was of poorer quality. is it because his mind thought that because alan was an inexperienced stringer, he would automatically produce a bad job? or was alan's string job at that point just bad?

    let's say that if two excellent stringers, who learned from the same person and have years of experience under their belt along with good track records of consistency, strung two identical rackets for the same person, and this person preferred stringer A's job over B's. let's also say that the general population prefers A's jobs over B's. what separates them? if two experienced stringers were given a 30-point checklist for the definition of the "perfect" string job, why is it that someone would believe one to be "better" than the other?

    my belief is that amongst good stringers, there are no better or worse jobs, just different. it all goes back to the age-old answer that it all depends on what you're used to and feel comfy with. a person may grow accustomed and used to a poor string job over time, and when his racket gets strung by a "better" stringer, may dislike his new string job simply because he's not used to it. the same can be said with two experienced stringers that receive good praise from their customers.

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    yes. i do understand that Yonex recommend bottom->up. and that some people have advised against middle out for cross.

    however, whatever it is, the result that i have experienced was good with middle out, despite not conforming to yonex and other's claim.

    so why is that? what does Luxis know that we don't?

    i would classify Luxis as a good stringer who produce good stringing results. so what separates him from the rest of the field?
    What kind of machine does Luxis use? Crank or Electronic? I think the pull is what makes the stringer good. If he is consistant on a crank, not pulling so fast,straightining out the string, not having that rainbow look when you pull and constant efficient time clamping. that is what seperates new stringers from experienced stringers.

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentheart View Post
    I would agree with Sir DinkALot. Also, just to add 1 more point about ES5Pro. From what I was taught about ES5pro and what I have done with other machines. The advantage of ECP machine is consistency. Given an inexperienced stringer is well taught and just follow all the instruction point by point, the inexperienced stringer will produce a string job close to 95% of an instructor level stringer. It is just like training a robot to string a racquet. Only difference in this case is the speed and some very minor details which the instructor don't even notice they are doing. Sorry Kwun, the best thing to do is to have a string fest (and beer fest too) at a club in N. Cal or S. Cal. Let's just have fun stringing and get to know what you and other do and you might see some difference.
    Actually, I will propose to the evil empire office in torrrance to sponsor a string fest in OCBC. What do you think?
    We can have it in Nor Cal too, there is an ES5 Protech here.

  15. #32
    Regular Member maa2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kakinami View Post
    We can have it in Nor Cal too, there is an ES5 Protech here.
    wow ...

    Quote Originally Posted by kakinami View Post
    Thanks for the Reference
    Alan Kakinami Newark, CA (AK Badminton & Tennis)
    2003-2004 Siebel Open Stringer (Mens Professional Tennis Tournament San Jose, CA)
    2005-2007, 09 SAP Open Stringer (Mens Professional Tennis Tournament San Jose, CA)
    2003-2009 Bank of the West Classic (Womens Professional Tennis Tournament Stanford, CA)
    2005 World Championship Stringer
    1999, 2004-2009 US Open Stringer
    2004-2009 US Nationals Stringer
    2009 Pan American Stringer
    Strung for:
    Venus Williams
    Serena Williams
    Andy Murray
    Vince Spadea
    Lin Dan
    Taufik
    Tony Gunawan
    - what is tension for Taufik and Lin Dan ?
    - when you did a stringing for them, did you add 2lbs on Cross ?
    thanks

  16. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    so that begs the question i have been asking... what does the experience stringer know that the other don't? what technique is used?



    i wish i have good rackets to spare.

    well, i hope i will in the future. i want to try the same experiment myself. when i am done with mine, i can send one to you.
    If you can find a club and playtesters I can help out with your experiment, maybe 2-3 more stringers. I can see if I can get 5-6 of the same frame (Arc Z) same string, same tension, same machine, strung all within the same day(Saturday) then have them playtested the next day (Sunday) and have a feedback sheet for playtesters. Or you can have all the rackets strung on each stringers own machine (Same time, same day) then have them brought to the club to be playtested, so you can see how different machines feel. Let me know, willing to help. Can probably get a stringer from Asby, Affinity, Maybe Racket supply or Z Badminton or UBC?

  17. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by maa2003 View Post
    wow ...



    - what is tension for Taufik and Lin Dan ?
    - when you did a stringing for them, did you add 2lbs on Cross ?
    thanks
    in 2005 Lin Dan was BG 65Ti at 30
    2009 Taufik US Open BG 66 32 Yo he had Arc 10's G6 with thin towel grip, 10 were shipped to him for US Open as well as 10 G5's he had 7 in his bag before he came.

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