differentiation of good / bad string job - medium tension

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by kwun, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    experienced stringer, i want to pick your brains.

    for a string job @ medium tension, say, 25lbs. how is the string job of a good stringer (say, stringer A) really different from someone who knows the basics (stringer B).

    given that stringer B has followed all the guidelines, including:

    - mounts and support racket properly
    - follow the recommended stringing pattern
    - pulls main center to sides
    - pulls cross 10% higher tension
    - tension every string
    - knots tied properly

    at the end of the job, he finds that there is no deformation to the racket head.

    what else can stringer B do to become a very good stringer? what differentiate stringer A and B?
     
  2. maa2003

    maa2003 Regular Member

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    I'm not experienced stringer, but the answer is really simple :
    "experiences and reputation".

    if the stringer has good reputation, eventhough the job is not good enough, the people still think it is a good job.

     
  3. adlim

    adlim Regular Member

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    Agreed. For noobs in stringing like me, as mentioned above. So long as there are no scratches and obvious loose strings when returned.
     
  4. Optiblue

    Optiblue Regular Member

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    For medium tensions especially, I find that a lot of stringers new or "experienced" aren't able to keep the tensions consistent across the string bed either due to multiple line pulls or other short cuts. It's all about learning the machine, and perfecting the technique. Instructions are just a guideline! For example, if you noticed your starting mains are always softer than the ones beside it by more than a couple tones, compensate for that.

    Also for the crank, a new stringer might have different times when clamping it off which would affect the consistency, whereas an experienced stringer might be trying to beat the clock by taking short cuts, or even worse, runs off to lunch while the racquet is strung half way!

    It's not just experience vs technique, I find that personality has a lot to do with it.
     
    #4 Optiblue, Apr 2, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2009
  5. Valentinas

    Valentinas Regular Member

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    Hi

    To become a better stringer Mr. B must not to forget:

    to check and replace broken grommets
    to pre-stretch the string
    clean and adjust the gripper to the string
    clean and adjust the clamps to the string
    not to use awl
    not to use badly calibrated tensioner
    not to loosen side supports during stringing

    Am I right? :))
     
  6. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    I feel this is a 2 parts question.
    Given A and B both uses same model stringing machine.

    A) How can you tell a good stringing job from a bad one just from the racquet.
    1) From a finished racquet, check if all the strings are straight. It is a sign of paying attention to detail and not to rush job. A wavy string bed loose tension faster than straight one.
    2) Check if the knots are seated properly. If it is sink too low or damaged grommet from brand new racquet on the tide off grommet, that is a concern.
    3) Burned string on the mains. That means the stringer pull too fast and not moving the string up and down during stringing.
    4) Cross strings on the outside. They are not really that bad. It is just showing attention to detail and not rushing a string job. Most of the time 1 cross string at 4 o'clock is OK because it is really time consuming to do it without cross string.
    5) This is a tough one to do, but I like this test the best. Given 2 same model racquets to a stringer to string at same tension and string. Both should produce exactly the same tone.

    B) How can you tell if a stringer is experienced or beginner during stringing process.
    1) Knowing his, her own machine. What I mean by that is the stringer should be able to mount and un-mount a racquet fairly quickly.
    2) Should be able to clamp and release string at the same smooth motion. This is back to the knowing your equipment.
    3) Weaving process should be smooth and quick. Beginners usually like to saw the strings while experienced one weave the strings.
    4) You will laugh at this. How many racquet is there waiting to be strung. Why? because it is a sign that this is a good stringer and people know it.
    5) Adjust and make sure the strings are straight during process.
     
  7. Kelvin

    Kelvin Regular Member

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    I wholeheartedly agree with Master SH.
    :D
     
  8. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    so far what i have heard from people is that, stringer need to follow a checklist of items, and as long as the checklist is satisfied, then a string job can be considered as "good".

    while that is a good start, and probably a required list, i was actually looking for more than that. the list given is just the prerequisite.

    i was looking more at the playability of the string job. back a few years ago, i used to frequent a store in HK, Luxis. another few other BC'er also used to go there. and the few of us agree that the stringing job done there really make the racket play better.

    what i am trying to understand is, what was so special about the job that makes it better than say, the ones that i did? i pretty much done most of the checklist that you guys have listed, but the feeling of the racket came out different, it was less lively, the free was dull in comparison.

    what i have observed, and what was interesting was that, Luxis didn't really follow the checklist. he did pull every string, but even at 26lbs, he didn't use any side support, he doesn't follow the official yonex pattern on a yonex racket, he strung middle out on the main, and middle out (not top->bottom nor bottom->top) on the cross with 4 knots.

    i didn't remember him adjusting tension during tensioning (ie. he didn't do proportional tension). however, i have seen another stringer (the old guy at the old Emmy) who did proportional stringing.

    so what made Luxis' string job better? what made it better than someone who follows our checklist above?

    that's what i am trying to get at, and understand.
     
  9. maa2003

    maa2003 Regular Member

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    thanks for the input.
    for main is which normally stringer did (see the Dink's video), eventhough some also did it from left-to-right or right-to-left fully.
    for cross, YY suggested bottom-up while others top-down style.
    I remember that tanepak mentioned if middle-out (for cross) will effect the playability but he never mentioned whether positive or negative effect.

    in tennis, the middle-out pattern (also called 50-50 pattern) is good for the Prince O3 tennis (with starting clamp).
     
  10. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    yes. i do understand that Yonex recommend bottom->up. and that some people have advised against middle out for cross.

    however, whatever it is, the result that i have experienced was good with middle out, despite not conforming to yonex and other's claim.

    so why is that? what does Luxis know that we don't?

    i would classify Luxis as a good stringer who produce good stringing results. so what separates him from the rest of the field?
     
  11. Kelvin

    Kelvin Regular Member

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    not sure how to put into words (hah! yes now that's a first!!!), but going from middle out on the crosses, seemed to make the sweet spot "sweeter" for me.

    Given that the centre crosses would have a bit more time to rest after being pulled, they inherently reach some sort of equilibrium, and when the string job is completed... I think of the sweet spot just having more of a trampoline effect...
    just feels better to some folks.

    I don't always go centre out on the crosses... just depends how I feel...
    I normally just string the "proportional" method I guess its called...
    I don't know the terms... I'm just a newbie stringer :D
     
  12. illusionistpro

    illusionistpro Regular Member

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    I think it was said earlier, but there are very small nuances about stringing that lead to a good job. Many were stated my master SH earlier, however there are more here and there that you only learn with experience. One thing i noticed was that on tie offs for mains, I feel double pulling with a 10% increase is much different from a single pull, which is much different from a single pull at +10%. But still, I have had great stringing jobs in which there was no double pull, nor +10% on tie offs. I think the most important thing regarding stringing is consistency, which comes from leaning how to use your individual machine.
     
  13. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    ok. so i am still not convinced.

    i think the terminology i used was a bit misleading.

    instead of looking for a checklist of things that needs to be done to make a proper string job, i am looking for stringing techniques that actually can improve the playability of the racket.
     
  14. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    nobody?

    another example.

    i just bought two rackets from Mr. Keen in HK. a ARC10 and a AT700. both of which plays excellent with excellent repulsion and feel.

    now i am wondering if it is the fact that both these rackets are good, or because the string job is good.

    i will have to find out when the string breaks and i string them up myself.
     
  15. ae86trueno

    ae86trueno Regular Member

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    Kwun, so its very possible a good stringer to string with crank machine and an inexperience stringer to string with a constant pull say es5pro with same tension. Good stringer's result although it might be not as tight as inexperience stringer's result but when playing the racket will be more lively than the tighter feeling inexperience stringer?

    Edit: I mean, its kind of like on paper the spec are lower/worse but due to other variable (experience) its better. sorry not sure how to explain whats on my mind and my bad english.
     
    #15 ae86trueno, May 6, 2009
    Last edited: May 6, 2009
  16. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    that's kinda similar to my unanswered question.

    i can even say, let good/inexperience stringers use the same machine, to string identical rackets with the same tension. will the playability of the resulting rackets be much different?

    Mr. Keen uses ECP (specifically a Exthree AM600). i might have to get together with illusionistpro to try his WISE at the same tension (23/25) and see if our stringing has the same feel.
     
  17. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    Yes, the two string jobs can and most likely will be different (unless the inexperienced stringer is, by chance, a good stringer).

    You should send me a couple of racket/string combos that you know are good. I'll string them at the same tension(s) you request, send back, and you tell me if there's a difference. :)
     
  18. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    so that begs the question i have been asking... what does the experience stringer know that the other don't? what technique is used?

    i wish i have good rackets to spare. :(

    well, i hope i will in the future. i want to try the same experiment myself. when i am done with mine, i can send one to you.
     
  19. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    It'll sound redundant and obvious because it's all been said before here, the better stringer will have:

    1) Better technique
    2) Better timing
    3) More consistent pulls
    4) Better clamping skills
    5) Better starting knots and tie-offs
    6) Minimal string twisting

    Which all leads to a more consistent, uniform, string tension across the racket.

    You'd need to watch someone string to start and understand but even then, you'll probably miss a lot because the stringer is going too fast for you to fully see what they are doing.

    Ideally, you'd need to spend about an hour or two with an experienced stringer and have him/her string a racket, slowly, you watch, he/she goes step-by-step, you ask questions. Then you string the same racket while they watch and give you commentary.
     
  20. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    I forgot to mention, at tensions of 22lbs. ECP and lower, a good/bad string job is not so apparent. At 23-27lbs. ECP, it's significantly more apparent. At 28lbs. and above, there can be a huge difference.

    Also, the string used can be a huge difference. For instance, I strung up a couple of APACS Tantrum 200s, one with BG66 at 28lbs. In order to get the same (as close as possible) feel/crispness on BG65, I had to string it at 32lbs.

    Another example is the racket, some are better at holding tension than others but this is minor compared to the string differences.
     

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